I love JJ, but we got raped in the deal

[Dukegotgame]

please explain to me since, in your opinion diaw was not a good fit in woodson's scheme, why we trade away such a talent instead of getting a coach who is capable of meshing his schemes to his talent

[Dukegotgame]

Furthermore, it is funny to sit here and have you try to tell me that while Diaw did not fit our team, it has nothing to do with woodson. hello!!!! the coach is the person who designs the plays and sets! geeeeeez

[chillzatl]

I don't know if you are drinking, drunk or just incapable of figuring it out. But here it is. We only had one quality scorer when Diaw was here (Al). Because of this, teams could simply double Al all night long and dare us to hit open shots. Which we struggled to do. Diaw could hit open shots and thusly was asked to take them when he had them. He WAS NOT asked to do nothing but shoot. Simply take open shots to pull the defense off Al. You know, keep them honest. He refused to do that. Not only did he refuse to do that. He complained to the media about it. That made him tradeable.

It was not simply him not fitting into Woodsons scheme. Our team did not have the personel to really have a scheme. our scheme consisted of getting the ball to Al and hoping we could score. In a scheme such as that, you need people who are willing to shoot. Because when you have nobody to pass to, passing skills are of limited value.

[TheDude]

Diaw is NOT a superstar. He is a dime-a-dozen, jack-of-all trades-not-great-at-anything player. Heck, we already have one of those, he's called Childress. Diaw is scoring more points than he would on any other team, saving Dallas.

Joe Johnson IS a superstar, or on the verge of being one. These are NOT dime-a-dozen players, these are pretty few.

So we trade a couple of mid-rounders for him, so what instead of HOPING we could get a superstar with one of those two picks, we KNOW we've got one now.

I'd take that chance any day of the week.

And when i say dime-a-dozen, it's probably more like a quarter-a-dozen, i don't want to SOUND like i'm dissing players of that skill level.

and blackhawk, i'm sure you accused of acting racist too much, but if weren't for the fact that you DO say seemingly stereotypical NEARracist comments at all, i don't think you'd be as targeted as much..remember, we're not seeing you, we're only seeing what you say.

[Dejay]

You just stated what I've been saying for the longest. Woodson simply asked Diaw to shoot the occasional WIDE OPEN shot ALONG WITH help the team with his skillset and Diaw not only refused but whined, cried, and bitched about it to the media ad nauseum. Now that he is on a team that is scoring nearly 110+ points a game, he is all of the sudden getting praise like he's the second coming (at least you would've thought he was the way Bill Walton was hugging his sack tonight, comparing him to Beethoven and all). And he likely would be playing in France right now had the Hawks decided to keep him so for folks to say that he would have those same numbers here is total BS to the fifth power.

The coach gave him a role to play; he complained and refused to do so and was gone as he should've been. Let's put this in a way so that the Duke guy gets it. Coach K recruits a blue-chipper to Duke. He gives him a role to play in order to help the TEAM win. The player, thinking he knows more than Coach K, not only whines about his role to the school paper as well as anyone else with a microphone but blatently refuses to do it. He transfers to another school a couple of years later and, lo and behold, because his new school plays a more uptempo style, his stats go up. Would you be writing letters to Duke's athletic office asking for Coach K's resignation for letting him go? I doubt it seriously. Not to compare the success of Coach K to Woodson but there is a reason why Woodson is the coach and Diaw isn't. Unless you believe that a player who previous to this season did nothing to remind anyone of Bernard King, Nique, or Derrick Coleman for that matter, deserves to right to call the shots.

[Dejay]

And with that said, this ENDS the Boris Diaw discussion, folks. He used to play here (if you want to call it that) and is doing well in Phoenix. More power to him and I wish him well in the playoffs (then again, maybe not, that way we all can see whether Bill Walton can find another guy's jockstrap to attach himself to if the Suns go away early). If you really like Diaw so much, find the Suns board and become a member there. Otherwise, this isn't a discussion anymore. Meanwhile, I'll take Joe Johnson and the 21/6/4 he's giving us right now while constantly being guarded by the opposing team's best perimeter defender with literally the SAME roster that won only 13 games last season. And considering that he is only 25, if he's getting those stats with a bunch of rookies (Stoudamire/Williams/Bautista), 2nd year players (Childress/Smith/Ivey), journeymen (Grundy/Edwards/Lue/Pachulia), and a former 6th man (Harrington) riding shotgun with him, the sky's the limit as to where his numbers will be once a big man and another ballhandler gets added to the roster and the aforementioned players mature. Again, END OF DISCUSSION AND THREAD. Thank you.

[Dukegotgame]

Quote:

---

And with that said, this ENDS the Boris Diaw discussion, folks. He used to play here (if you want to call it that) and is doing well in Phoenix. More power to him and I wish him well in the playoffs (then again, maybe not, that way we all can see whether Bill Walton can find another guy's jockstrap to attach himself to if the Suns go away early). If you really like Diaw so much, find the Suns board and become a member there. Otherwise, this isn't a discussion anymore. Meanwhile, I'll take Joe Johnson and the 21/6/4 he's giving us right now while constantly being guarded by the opposing team's best perimeter defender with literally the SAME roster that won only 13 games last season. And considering that he is only 25, if he's getting those stats with a bunch of rookies (Stoudamire/Williams/Bautista), 2nd year players (Childress/Smith/Ivey), journeymen (Grundy/Edwards/Lue/Pachulia), and a former 6th man (Harrington) riding shotgun with him, the sky's the limit as to where his numbers will be once a big man and another ballhandler gets added to the roster and the aforementioned players mature. Again, END OF DISCUSSION AND THREAD. Thank you.

---

I am glad you feel you have the power to end an discussion LMAO. There were other offensive players he had to play with, please do not give me that excuse. Either way you look at it, we all knew he had lots of talent regardless of his production.

All i am saying here is while i love JJ, we gave up too much for him. Is that too hard for you to understand?

[f_town]

would you prefer that?

i sure as hell wouldnt

the main fact you ignore is, this is the first time in recent memory that a major FA publicly stated that he wanted to play for this team, rather than being aquired as a rental in trades and splitting at the end of the season.

Hell, i would give alot more than 2 mid-firsts and freakin Diaw for a player that is in the process of re-legitimizing this franchise. I'd give them half our roster if necessary!

If Diaw becomes the playoff MVP or something, ill re-evaluate at that time

Go Hawks!

[joannes3000]

Quote:

---

well we can sit here and debate what woodson told him, or we can see that whatever it was it did not work. that is a fact... what you are saying is not a fact... lets try to use facts here and not opinions

---

It's a fact that Diaw came nowhere near to the level of production that we're seeing out of him in PHX compared to when he was here. To allow yourself to believe that Diaw would have had the same impact here is delusional.

The Suns have the reigning MVP at the point and a strong candidate for the MVP again this year. He also doubles up as one of the top assist men and is a playmaker. The Suns also have the Matrix who is a freak of nature at forward who is yet another playmaker. The Suns also have a ridiculous amount of shooters that take and make perimeter shots, which are plentiful with 2-3 guys attacking the lane.

We have more discussions about who would be a good fit at the point than legitimate PGs. We have Al/Smoove/Marvin, who equal Marion - if all three are combined. I'll stop there.

When you put Diaw on the floor, which team will he be more productive with?

[CrawDaddy]

Diaw is an average NBA player. His current success is a product of the system he plays in. It wasn't a bad trade. Diaw is a worthless human being with no spine and he would have underacheived his whole career here because the staff wanted him to be a focal point in the offense. In PHX, all he has to be is a conduit to Nash's brilliance = no pressure.

JJ is worth Boris and two picks. It's not a great trade for us, but we were far from being bunghole torched.

[Final_quest]

The interesting thing to me is that this trade will be judged based on the actual players Phoenix picks. If they pick two busts, people will say Phoenix got taken. If they pick two stars or one superstar, we would have been taken.

Even if Phoenix gets a high pick and selects a Darko, Skita, or Kwame type bust they will be laughed at.

[Guest Walter]

Quote:

---

We needed for DIAW to score more because we DID NOT have a lot of players who could score like Phoenix does. That is precisely the point.

---

If we're going to be a contender it helps to have more scorers AND an unselfish, rare skilled player like Diaw. It's a catch 22 as Diaw helped minimally (because with Woody's help we gutted his value) acquire JJ, but we will miss Diaw more the closer we get to contending.

W

[AHF]

Quote:

---

Quote:

---

All we can do is imagine a backcourt of him and JJ. Only because it was impossible, being that phoenix wouldn't give up JJ unless they got Diaw.

AND, he was not a backcourt player. In phoenix he thrives as a forward.

---

AFH, my first post on this topic states i would like to see him and jj pair in up together in a backcourt.

lol seriously learn to read before you make some smart ass comment. nobody here thinks diaw is better than jj and to ask me if i do is plain stupid

---

I know how to read. 14 straight posts not discussing JJ and Diaw as a pair in the backcourt and several straight posts of you blowing smoke up Diaw's ass. I couldn't tell how far your head was up there. Still looks pretty far but I'm glad it isn't that far!

[Traceman]

perhaps have removed the protection from our pick? Phoenix obvously wanted a swingman who could at least do some of the things that JJ did for them. I STILL think Diaw is the one I would have given up regardless of the success he has had out there.

[AHF]

Quote:

---

Quote:

---

We needed for DIAW to score more because we DID NOT have a lot of players who could score like Phoenix does. That is precisely the point.

---

If we're going to be a contender it helps to have more scorers AND an unselfish, rare skilled player like Diaw. It's a catch 22 as Diaw helped minimally (because with Woody's help we gutted his value) acquire JJ, but we will miss Diaw more the closer we get to contending.

W

---

To some extent, I think Chills can be that rare unselfish player who contributs across the board without needing a lot of shots. However, he is also assertive enough that he can contribute immediately more than Diaw.

My only regret was not protecting the 2007 pick more.