More Iverson talk....(continued)

[Dragitoff]

I've gotta' say for once I agree w/ Diesel. I see this as being the best move the franchise could make. It's risky, but all and all, I think the owner's have to want this. Even if it turned out AI could not mesh with our core of players and the trade was horrible, he's the type of players other teams would want if we had to ship him off. By then, attendance is up at the least. The one place I disagree with you Diesel is getting Dalembert. While he fills our other need, I think his contract along with AI and JJ's, would cripple this team majorly if it could even be worked under the cap. It's gonna' be tough w/ JJ and AI already, but then add Dally's bloated contract and things get really sticky.

[drzachary]

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Many of you agree that Iverson would interrupt Billy's "5 year plan". Well, we're nearly half-way through this plan, and we're up to WOW, and astounding 26 wins! We're so close...yeah right! The play-off's are still at LEAST 1-2 years away, and 5 years should take you much furthur than just a play-off birth. We should be competing for the ECF by then, and the way we're going, that's a pipe dream. On the other hand, bringing in Iverson would give us a legitimate shot at the play-offs in 06-07, fill the arena, bring some kind of life and exposure to a dead francise, and bring some star power to the Hawks. It's amazing that people would not want to have Allen Iverson. 39 wins the last two seasons and we're questioning bringing in an every year All-star...that's nuts.

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I almost NEVER use common sense to make any sort of decision, and I'm all for bringing in Iverson, for the various reasons stated above. Primarily, I'd like to not be sitting by myself when I go to Hawks games.

The tiny fraction of my rather underpowered brain that I use for rational deduction also leads me to believe that a large portion (25-33%) of AI's reputation is due to playing for Larry Brown and playing in Philly.

[JJJ]

From Rotoworld.com:

The Hawks are seriously trying to find a way to trade for Allen Iverson. If they can get AI in a Hawks uniform it would be the most exciting thing to happen in Atlanta since Dominique Wilkins was here. Assuming they don’t trade any of the following away, their starting lineup would be: Iverson and Joe Johnson in the backcourt, Josh Smith, Marvin Williams and Zaza Pachulia in the front court with Josh Childress coming off the bench. That looks like it has playoffs written all over it to me.

However, the Hawks ownership team is still in the midst of a major battle that is costing both sides a ton of money in the process. And it remains to be seen how it will end, but if Steve Belkin is given control of the franchise, it could be doomsday in Atlanta. However, I see no reason why Belkin would win a ruling in court, but then again, I’m not a judge or lawyer.

[WraithSentinel]

and just say the Hawks have no interest in getting AI. That should put an end to these rumors. Of course everyone will believe the media over an owner it seem.

[sick_five]

I'm really split on the idea of getting AI. His strengths and weaknesses are well documented, but the one thing it would do is bring instant credibility back to the franchise, which is sorely, sorely needed right now. That alone will attract more free agents to the team.

On the other hand, it "could" stunt the growth of some younger players or hurt the team a few years from now.

Either way, I wouldn't give up a boatload to get him...

[Buzzard]

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and just say the Hawks have no interest in getting AI. That should put an end to these rumors. Of course everyone will believe the media over an owner it seem.

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Owners, GM's, and Coaches never speak the whole truth about possible deals. If they do and the deal does not go down, you have a potential for creating ill will for the players that are being considered in the trades.

What Owner,GM, or Coach in his right mind is going to make statements like "we are shopping one of our young picks for a higher quality player". Also it confirms to other teams our interest and therefore they may up the ante to steal said player or players away.

I am not saying the Iverson deal will happen; but it is bad business to make or confirm possible deals in the press all the way around....

[Nicholasp27]

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5 years should take you much furthur than just a play-off birth. We should be competing for the ECF by then

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if this was a true statement, teams would be rebuilding all the time and we'd have new ECF teams every year

any team that isn't competing for it or on year 2-4 of the rebuilding plan would start over secure in the knowledge that in 5 years they'll be ECF contenders

[Dejay]

I don't see the rationale behind NOT wanting AI on this team. The guys is an All-World player, a future HOF'er, hates losing, a former MVP, and leaves it all on the court EVERY SINGLE NIGHT. What's not to like about his game, folks? I hear people talk about him hogging the ball and domineering the offense? Didn't we hear the same 'effin' thing in regards to Nique when he was here? Isn't Iverson's reasons nearly the same as Nique's? Who else would you trust to make a shot with the clock running down? Webber? Nope. Iggy? I like him but even he has Diaw in ATL-tendencies at times. Korver? Only if he's wide-ass open behind the stripe would he even bother. Who else? If I was Iverson, I would shoot even MORE.

Like I stated earlier, if he was 35 and giving you 14/5 a night, things would be different. But he seems to be getting better with age as his numbers indicate.

Just do me this favor, people: think of where this team is in the here and now, not in 2008. We're talking about a 26-win club that hasn't made the playoffs since Clinton ran the show in D.C., who has constantly been in the bottom-3 in attendance for much of its stay in a state-of-the-art arena where the only playoff game that's been seen in it was from an Arena league team. It has an ownership group is who already crying about losing $$$ in court (allegedly) while its front office employs one of the most arrogant GMs in recent memory who has put together as many winning teams in the league as I have. All of this is being done in a town with one of the largest transient population bases in the country, where apathy sets in quicker than a NY minute. Again, this team doesn't have 3-5 years to contend for an 8th seed, especially with a GM who few people in the metro area wouldn't trust as far as they could hip-toss him.

Iverson would re-ignite this franchise in a way that hasn't been seen since Nique's heyday. Having him here would mean a sold-out Philips most nights and games on ESPN and TNT; sights of which hasn't been seen in nearly a decade. Going to a Hawks game would MEAN something again in this town just like it in the late-80's. All of this means network/national coverage and playoff games which equates to more $$$ in the ownership's pockets. Free agents would no longer look at the ATL as a place to leverage another team into give them the contract they really want. ESPN anchors would have to come up with new material in regards to Hawks home games because there wouldn't be empty seats in the building.

It's a win for the owners because of the added revenue. It's a win for the young players because they would, for once, see what a winning basketball team looks like without glancing at the other locker room, and the fans.

[GST]

What I find interesting about the Iverson rumors is the revelation that BK doesn't want Iverson, with one of the main reasons being that the team would have to be re-built around Iverson. If BK was truly trying to put the best 5 players on the court without regard to position or role, as is commonly thought, then Iverson would be a no-brainer. I think BK actually is looking for certain kinds of players to fill specific roles. I also think BK does not divulge his vision for the team to the public, in order to be in a better negotiating position when trade time comes.

[Buzzard]

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I've gotta' say for once I agree w/ Diesel. I see this as being the best move the franchise could make. It's risky, but all and all, I think the owner's have to want this. Even if it turned out AI could not mesh with our core of players and the trade was horrible, he's the type of players other teams would want if we had to ship him off. By then, attendance is up at the least. The one place I disagree with you Diesel is getting Dalembert. While he fills our other need, I think his contract along with AI and JJ's, would cripple this team majorly if it could even be worked under the cap. It's gonna' be tough w/ JJ and AI already, but then add Dally's bloated contract and things get really sticky.

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Agree 100%. Dally's contract vs skill is no were near equal. AI is all skill and well worth the risk. I would want to at least keep a 1st round pick. Maybe switch picks with Philly, so we can still take a flyer on a big or PG that comes our way.

AI plus JJ is a top five backcourt, I do not care what anyone says ....

[exodus]

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Just do me this favor, people: think of where this team is in the here and now

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Right now this team is one of the worst defensive teams in the league and, if they get AI, they will continue to be a lousy defensive team (as Philly is) for the next 3 years. After all they will have no cap space to strengthen their front line.

Nique was not the gunner that AI is and Nique had the size to play his position. AI is a short shooting guard which makes it hard to build a team around him, especially since he takes 25 shots a game.

People keep talking about the effort he puts out but he only does it on one end. He doesn't pressure the ball on defense and just focuses on jumping the passing lanes so he can get some easy buckets, neglecting the fact that he leaves the defense vulnerable when he gambles.

It cracks me up to see people talking about the sellouts and playoffs if we bring in AI. Fact is Philly hasn't done crap with him there except one finals appearance even though they have been trying to build around him since he was a rookie. And their attendence is 20th in the league so maybe he isn't quite the draw he is being made out to be here.

[Buzzard]

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Right now this team is one of the worst defensive teams in the league and, if they get AI, they will continue to be a lousy defensive team (as Philly is) for the next 3 years. After all they will have no cap space to strengthen their front line.

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So Philly is one of the worst defensive teams in the league because of AI. I am not buying that one. Also your statement indicates that MWill, Smoove, Chillz, and JJ are pretty incompetent defensively and will not improve. Not buying that one. Maybe you think BK will not be able to draft well enough to shore up our D? If that is the case, does not matter who we get to man the point.

My point is, you can't hand bad D on any single player. Its never that easy. No matter who we get to man the point, we are still going to need a defensive minded post player either via the draft or FA...

I like to think we could draft one or land one via free agency. Especially with a set team of:

AI

JJ

MWill

Smoove

assuming Chilz is part of the trade...That would be a great lineup that quite a few players would want to be a part of.

[Johnnybravo4]

I can't believe the cowardice on this board. Are you all so afraid of success that you can't see the answer (no pun intended) sitting in front of your face? Some of you all are living in a world of perpetual Christmas Eve, afraid to open your gifts in the morning for fear that you will get a lump of coal instead of that train you wanted.

Most of you all say that we needed a pg to get the ball out of JJ's hands, then you say no to AI because he dominates the ball.

You want a guard who can distribute, but you ignore AI's 7.5 dimes a game, which by the way more assists per game than any pg we have had in the last 10 years.

Noooooo...instead you want to wait. For a chance at Greg Oden I guess...then wait for another three years. Xmas eve yet again.

In the meantime, Marvin and Smoove tire of the losing culture, the empty Phillips arena. They play hard ball during salary negotiations...we figure "Hey we don't need Josh, we have O.J. Mayo now...we should let him go."

JJ in the meantime feels betrayed. HE thought that he was coming to a franchise that was committed to winning....DURING HIS CONTRACT. After his fourth consecutive year of losing he demands a trade to the Miami Heat, so he can "Go after a ring" with Dwayne Wade and their all star PF Wayne Simien.

So because of the cowardice of the fans, which causes the ownership to fail to pull the trigger, our 2007-2008 hawks roster is

PG Royal Ivey

SG Joe Johnson

SF OJ Mayo

PF Josh Childress

C Zaza Pachulia

We win 20 games all season, and our coach Eric Musselman gets fired one year after replacing Mike Woodson.

There's our future guys...unless we have the courage to avoid it.

[Diesel]

If 5 years only gets us a playoff birth then the train should be stopped here. There are several moves that can get us a playoff birth... Several trades that could be made that could get us a playoff birth and it's well documented...

I've only seen 5 year plans fail... So tell me, what's so different about this one?

[Diesel]

I think that the reason BK doesn't want Iverson is because of his own Ego. He doesn't want 1 move to take credit for his master plan. Sad to say but Iverson is just what the franchise needs both on the court and in the ticket office. BK keeps getting these identityless players in hopes that they can win and keep the spotlight on his judgement.

Iverson would give the Hawks an identity... And when successful, our success would be credited to him.

Now, these other BK loyalist are loyal to a guy who is just loading up on duplicated talent. They believe that BK has a plan.. but if the plan doesn't involved trading duplicated potential for true talent, then what is he doing??

[joannes3000]

I think the question that needs to be answered then is what kind of guard do we need playing opposite JJ? We all agree that we need a good on-ball defender. We all agree that we need someone to bring up the ball under pressure. I think AI fits the bill in those two regards.

We don't need a cancer on the team. We don't need someone that would put JJ back into the same role that he played in PHX. As much bad pub that AI gets, who's viewed as a bigger cancer AI or Franchise? And as much as we want to keep JJ as a focal point of the offense, between AI and Franchise again, who needs the ball more to be effective? The point I'm trying to make is that I think we're too scared to make a big move.

Chicago tried to build through the draft and they proved why it doesn't work. This isn't baseball - we don't have a minor league system. By the time our draft picks are ready to contribute, they've signed a contract with another team. Look at how Detroit built their team. They drafted some pieces but they were also able to round out their team through free agency.

We started this trend last offseason by drafting Marvin and signing JJ. We can continue this trend this season by trading for someone like AI and drafting a big. I go through the motions just like anyone else, especially on a trade that could impact us so much. The thing is though, I feel like we can shoot for greatness now without sacrificing the ability to rebuild if it doesn't work out (Al+Lue+we pick for PHI at 5 / AI+ PHI picks for us at 13). The only thing I'm afraid of is sticking with the mentality of mediocrity and never risking greatness because we're too afraid to fail.

[Buzzard]

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We started this trend last offseason by drafting Marvin and signing JJ. We can continue this trend this season by trading for someone like AI and drafting a big. I go through the motions just like anyone else, especially on a trade that could impact us so much. The thing is though, I feel like we can shoot for greatness now without sacrificing the ability to rebuild if it doesn't work out (Al+Lue+we pick for PHI at 5 / AI+ PHI picks for us at 13). The only thing I'm afraid of is sticking with the mentality of mediocrity and never risking greatness because we're too afraid to fail.

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Agree...as long as we stay away from Dally (or any other bloated non expiring contract) , we have room to continue our growth; while at the same time, by picking up a player such as AI we are also shooting for greatness.

We have been a sub standard team for so long, I beleive you are right, everyone is afraid to fail...How else can you explain the doubts on picking up a future hall of famer with 4+ years playoff experience?

I guarantee you Minne and Garnett are going to be talking long and hard with Philly. Philly nor NY will hesitate. But then again they have both been to their conference finals as well....NY a couple of championships...you cannot say the same thing about us!

The closest we ever came to taking a chance like this was bringing in Theus and Moses. Broke them up after only one year...

[joannes3000]

I just tend to envision more nights where AI is chest bumping the rest of the team after a win versus seeing AI sulking after a loss. Not so much because I think he's guaranteed to win more here than in PHI, but because we're progressing forward whereas PHI is standing still. The prospect of future success alone should keep him happy.

[Buzzard]

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I just tend to envision more nights where AI is chest bumping the rest of the team after a win versus seeing AI sulking after a loss. Not so much because I think he's guaranteed to win more here than in PHI, but because we're progressing forward whereas PHI is standing still. The prospect of future success alone should keep him happy.

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If you lose enough, I don't care how great you are, eventually it will take something out of you. Garnett and Iverson are perfect examples of this...

[exodus]

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So Philly is one of the worst defensive teams in the league because of AI. I am not buying that one. Also your statement indicates that MWill, Smoove, Chillz, and JJ are pretty incompetent defensively and will not improve. Not buying that one. Maybe you think BK will not be able to draft well enough to shore up our D? If that is the case, does not matter who we get to man the point.

My point is, you can't hand bad D on any single player. Its never that easy. No matter who we get to man the point, we are still going to need a defensive minded post player either via the draft or FA...

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How do you get from here to there? Where did I say Philly's weak D is all because of AI? And while Chillz is a lame defender JJ, MWill and Smoove aren't.

How will BK shore up the interior D through the draft? You think he will draft a defensive center at 5? That would be hard to do, since there aren't any.

And you made my point without realizing it. Like you said no matter who the Hawks get to man the point they will still need a defensive center through the draft or free agency. There aren't any defensive centers at the top of this years draft and the Hawks won't be able to get a defensive center in FA if they get AI because they will be capped out. And they most likely won't have a 1st rouund pick next year.

So how are they going to get a center?

AI isn't the sole reason that Philly's d sucks but if you read any scouting report on the Sixers or ask Philly fans they will tell you he is a major contributing factor.