Moderators AHF Posted June 26, 2006 Moderators Report Share Posted June 26, 2006 Quote: If Head is not going to be a starter why bother to make the deal? In my opinion, if you're going to trade down from a high draft position, either pick up a second high draft pick or a starter. Not for someone who can't beat out Tyron Lue at starting PG for us. Who the heck is going to give up a a "second high draft pick" or a starter (which Head was) to move up only a few spots in a draft like this one? This isn't Chris Webber we are talking about. We are talking about guys who are interchangable as far as how they are projected to perform at this point. Why pay the premium of a second lottery pick to move up 3 spots in that kind of draft? If the Hawks want Shelden, IMO, they can't trade down with NO and still expect him to be there at 12. I am just struggling to come up with who you think is going to make the deal you guys are proposing the Hawks do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lascar78 Posted June 26, 2006 Report Share Posted June 26, 2006 Quote: If Head is not going to be a starter why bother to make the deal? In my opinion, if you're going to trade down from a high draft position, either pick up a second high draft pick or a starter. Not for someone who can't beat out Tyron Lue at starting PG for us. 2 things: -FIRST, if we are going to get Shelden either way, this might be the best deal we can get. So unless you can come up with a better deal that's a certainty, this is better than nothing. You get Shelden for cheaper, AND you get an extra player. Hell you can cut him if you don't want him. -SECONDLY, if we got head, I would expect him to start, and do a much, much, MUCH better job than Ivey. We know that Lue is better off the bench, and Head is pretty good. I was kind of hoping we could pick him up last year. At worst, he will be Lue part II, at best he will be much better. He is quick, does not turn the ball over, and best of all, he is clutch. Head seems to come through when it matters. He would be a good young addition. Considering the fact that we'd be adding him for free if we're getting Shelden either way, it's a no brainer to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seano Posted June 26, 2006 Report Share Posted June 26, 2006 So it's looking like we'll be getting Head, and Forehead? Wow! That's some pretty heady stuff! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Wretch Posted June 26, 2006 Premium Member Report Share Posted June 26, 2006 I don't have a lot of concerns about either of these guys being able to draw the defense and find the open guy. I've seen JJ do it often - albeit from the role of off guard. We needed his ability to score, so we didn't look to him to do it that often. With a guy like Roy paired with him, either of them could assume the role on any given play. I love the idea. Where do we get a big? Luck up and land a top 3 in next years draft? LoL. I wouldn't say Roy is the only way to go. I'd be more than okay with taking a big - and I like Shelden. Though, at some point we have to address both needs - interior as well as completing the backcourt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Traceman Posted June 26, 2006 Report Share Posted June 26, 2006 acquiring Roy would probably make Chillz expendable in a trade (I'll talk more about that later). Acquiring a shoot first PG could possibly hurt JJ because you would risk taking the ball out of his hands too often. If he is paired with Roy however and he gives it up, he is likely to get it back. I don't know where you get the idea that Roy is not a good passer - he is a TERRIFIC passer and ball handler which is why some people think he can play some PG in the NBA. He averaged over 4 apg last year from the SG position. Another thing I like about Roy is his underrated athleticism. He has the quickness and the vertical leap to at least challenge guys like D Wade and Gilber Arenas - the premier guards in our division. No one on our current roster has the tools to stay with either guy. As for the possibility of trading Chillz - I love Chillz but I was thinking of a deal that makes sense for both teams last night. How about sign and trading Al along with Chillz to Milwaukee for Magloire and TJ Ford (Magloire/Ford for Harrington/Childress)? I have read a ton of reports that say the Bucks want to trade Magloire and they would trade Ford but they want a PF and a defense-minded swingman in return. If a deal could be made, we would line up: Magloire/Zaza Smoove Marvin/Dante Roy/Salim JJ/Ford/Lue I think that is an interesting/versatile lineup. We could go big in the frontcourt with Magloire and Zaza up front. We could also go with Ford at PG, Roy at SG and JJ at SF. Even with all that, we'd still have the cap room to sign another good player. I'd shoot for a solid PF like Nene, Gooden, Wilcox or even Lo Wright. That said, if we made the Roy for Shelden/Head deal, a lineup of: Magloire/Zaza Shelden/ Smoove/Marvin JJ/Head/Salim Ford/Lue would be VERY strong too. For Milwaukee, Bogut moves to Center and they line up: Bogut/Gadzuric Harrington/Smith Simmons/Kukoc Redd/Childress Williams/Bell That is a solid, tough team with a nice mix of veterans and youth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plastic Man Posted June 26, 2006 Report Share Posted June 26, 2006 Yes, Roy "should" be gone by #5, but who is drafting Roy? It seems that teams #1-#4 have needs and interests in everything but Roy. I think he will be available to the Hawks (or Rockets via trade). Scott i see roy goin to charlotte at #3. he's what they need. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrReality Posted June 26, 2006 Report Share Posted June 26, 2006 Sekou says there is no deal? Hawks will stick with the fifth By Sekou Smith | Monday, June 26, 2006, 03:50 PM The Atlanta Journal-Constitution The debate will rage until Wednesday night as to which player should be the top pick in the NBA draft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
exodus Posted June 27, 2006 Report Share Posted June 27, 2006 Quote: SECONDLY, if we got head, I would expect him to start, and do a much, much, MUCH better job than Ivey. We know that Lue is better off the bench, and Head is pretty good. I was kind of hoping we could pick him up last year. At worst, he will be Lue part II, at best he will be much better. He is quick, does not turn the ball over, and best of all, he is clutch. I think they will work well together. Head is obviously a much better defender than Lue. Although i haven't seen much of him i know he is very athletic. However he was reduced to being a spot up 2 guard at Houston. If there is anyplace where he can succeed as a pg it is here, playing next to JJ. Plus Marvin handles the ball well and Smoove has shown some playmaking ability. I don't think he is close to the shooter Lue is, but then Lue is a veteran. According to Houston fans Head is very inconsistent and doesn't shoot well off the dribble, but I am not worried about that so much. We don't need 15 ppg from him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrReality Posted June 27, 2006 Report Share Posted June 27, 2006 For what it's worth... here's Head's combine testing results: Luther Head Bench Press 185 lbs: 14 times Vertical Leap: 38½" Lane agility 11.12 3/4 court run 3.21 Overall Rank in draft class: 7 He's 6'3'' with 6'5'' wingspan. Skinny, but damn strong and has great hops. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Diesel Posted June 27, 2006 Premium Member Report Share Posted June 27, 2006 Eastern conference playoff teams Guard combinations... #8. T.J. Ford, Micheal Redd.... FTA........819 (Redd 571) #7. Anthony Johnson, Stephen Jackson.. FTA... 482 (Jackson 341) #6. Antonio Daniels, Gilbert Arenas... FTA.....1156 (Arenas 799) #5 Kirk Hinrich, Ben Gordon FTA.... 582 (Hinrich 314) #4. Jason Kidd, Vince Carter FTA.....845 (Carter 644) #3. Larry Hughes, Lebron James FTA......1007 (James 814) #2. Chauncey Billups, Richard Halmilton FTA... 823 (Billups 520) #1. Jason Williams, Dwayne Wade. FTA.... 901 (Wade 803) Hawks Tyron Lue, Joe Johnson FTA... 468 (Johnson 330). Study these numbers.. they tell a story. Good teams go have one guard that goes to the line. Especially when that one guard is their top scorer. JJ is the lowest on the list next to Hinrich. The difference there is that Chicago was lacking offensively and Gordon didn't start all the time. Still, I think we'd be better suited getting a OG who can get to the lane and either score or draw fouls... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnnybravo4 Posted June 27, 2006 Report Share Posted June 27, 2006 Quote: Quote: If Head is not going to be a starter why bother to make the deal? In my opinion, if you're going to trade down from a high draft position, either pick up a second high draft pick or a starter. Not for someone who can't beat out Tyron Lue at starting PG for us. 2 things: -FIRST, if we are going to get Shelden either way, this might be the best deal we can get. So unless you can come up with a better deal that's a certainty, this is better than nothing. You get Shelden for cheaper, AND you get an extra player. Hell you can cut him if you don't want him. -SECONDLY, if we got head, I would expect him to start, and do a much, much, MUCH better job than Ivey. We know that Lue is better off the bench, and Head is pretty good. I was kind of hoping we could pick him up last year. At worst, he will be Lue part II, at best he will be much better. He is quick, does not turn the ball over, and best of all, he is clutch. Head seems to come through when it matters. He would be a good young addition. Considering the fact that we'd be adding him for free if we're getting Shelden either way, it's a no brainer to me. I don't know how he'd be a better option to start than Lue. Besides JJ there is no one on our team that hit bigger shots. Lue is also quicker in his sleep than Luther Head is. At best it is a lateral move which solves nothing but adds salary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators AHF Posted June 27, 2006 Moderators Report Share Posted June 27, 2006 Quote: I don't know how he'd be a better option to start than Lue. Besides JJ there is no one on our team that hit bigger shots. Lue is also quicker in his sleep than Luther Head is. At best it is a lateral move which solves nothing but adds salary. Head is a big upgrade defensively over Lue. That is the biggest upside. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
exodus Posted June 27, 2006 Report Share Posted June 27, 2006 Quote: Lue is also quicker in his sleep than Luther Head is. At best it is a lateral move which solves nothing but adds salary. Luther was the 7th best athlete tested at last years combine, and he makes only $1 million/yr. Since the Hawks would be trading down to pick him the salary difference would be minimal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emeans Posted June 27, 2006 Report Share Posted June 27, 2006 Exactly!! I like Head last year and wanted us to draft him last year even over Stoudemire. He did very well in the pre-draft workouts and easily solidified himself as a legitimate 1st rounder last year. Head did very well for a rookie in Houston. He would be a great addition to this team and we get true value for the 5th pick with Shelden and Head. Very good deal in my eyes!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnnybravo4 Posted June 27, 2006 Report Share Posted June 27, 2006 Quote: Quote: Lue is also quicker in his sleep than Luther Head is. At best it is a lateral move which solves nothing but adds salary. Luther was the 7th best athlete tested at last years combine, and he makes only $1 million/yr. Since the Hawks would be trading down to pick him the salary difference would be minimal. I don't care about that crap. Marcus Williams was the 73 best athlete in the combine and I'd rather have him run the point rather than Luther Head. Basketball is a skill game, athleticism is only a portion and he doesn't have the skillset that I want for this team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
exodus Posted June 27, 2006 Report Share Posted June 27, 2006 You are the one who brought up quickness in the first place, but now all of a sudden quickness doesn't matter, skillsets matter. Looks like you are just looking for something to complain about if the Hawks don't make the AI deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnnybravo4 Posted June 27, 2006 Report Share Posted June 27, 2006 Quote: You are the one who brought up quickness in the first place, but now all of a sudden quickness doesn't matter, skillsets matter. Looks like you are just looking for something to complain about if the Hawks don't make the AI deal. The A.I. deal is a dream. I'd be perfectly happy with a Shelden/Barea draft. I just don't want us to get sidetracked and get Head instead of a Mike James, Sam Cassel, or a more veteran trade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
exodus Posted June 27, 2006 Report Share Posted June 27, 2006 Neither one of us really knows how well Head would do. But if the Hawks really are set on Shelden it makes sense to pick up a player who could possibly work out well playing next to JJ. Personally I would be more inclined to draft somebody else at 5 but unfortunately BK isn't taking my calls. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emeans Posted June 27, 2006 Report Share Posted June 27, 2006 I just the Houston boards and there is a lot of talk about an exchange of Stromile for Childress. Something like Stromile and 8th pick for Childress and the 5th pick. Sounds interesting!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
exodus Posted June 27, 2006 Report Share Posted June 27, 2006 Forget Stromile. He has done absolutely nothing there, which is why they want to get rid of him. I wouldn't mind trading Childress for the 8th pick and then getting Foye, assuming he is still available. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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