Please some explain something to me!

[chillzatl]

I think you need to go find some of his pre-draft workouts and watch some of his dunks. He doesn't throw it down like Smooth does (or seem to care to). But his hops are every bit as good as smooths. Dude can get up like whoa. He just doesn't have the flashy dunks.

As far as speed, I would say any differences are minor and there are many other aspects to athleticism than just raw speed. We're splitting hairs here.

[AHF]

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I think you need to go find some of his pre-draft workouts and watch some of his dunks. He doesn't throw it down like Smooth does (or seem to care to). But his hops are every bit as good as smooths. Dude can get up like whoa. He just doesn't have the flashy dunks.

As far as speed, I would say any differences are minor and there are many other aspects to athleticism than just raw speed. We're splitting hairs here.

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When I see Marvin going up and blocking shots or pulling down rebounds from as high as Josh Smith does then I wil believe the claim that his hops are every bit as good as Smooth's. However, I don't see that from him or from just about anyone in the league not named Vince Carter or Jason Richardson.

[Plainview1981]

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I think you need to go find some of his pre-draft workouts and watch some of his dunks. He doesn't throw it down like Smooth does (or seem to care to). But his hops are every bit as good as smooths. Dude can get up like whoa. He just doesn't have the flashy dunks.

As far as speed, I would say any differences are minor and there are many other aspects to athleticism than just raw speed. We're splitting hairs here.

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For somebody that's so athletic he sure doesn't block many shots. He played 25MPG last year, only getting .30 blocks a game...Athletic ability is like size... It only means something if you really use it.

[chillzatl]

damn, Kobe and Vince don't have many blocks either. They're such stiffs... great commentary there hots..

[DJlaysitup]

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...Athletic ability is like size... It only means something if you really use it.

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Good point Hot...

[DavidSomerset]

I think Smoove is a better passer than Marvin as well...

[DJlaysitup]

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damn, Kobe and Vince don't have many blocks either. They're such stiffs... great commentary there hots..

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Yeah...Kobe, Vince, and Marvin...like three peas in a pod. Talk about a silly comparison!

[pimp]

Marvin is nowhere near close to josh when it come to being athletic.

I would like to see Marvin try to chase allen iverson down on a fastbreak, and block his shot like Smoove did.

I don't think Marvin could do that.

Also Marvin can't jump anywhere near as high as Smoove.

How many times did we see Marvin get his dunks blocked, or get rejected by the rim?If he could dunk like josh, he would'nt get blocked so much.Then again, people seem to get out of the way, when it looks like Smoove is gonna throw one down.

[exodus]

At the combine Marvin tested significantly quicker in the lane agility test, 11.17 to 11.46 for Smith. However Smiths vertical was better by 4.5".

As far as full speed running I think they are fairly similar. They didn't publish the sprint times in '04.

[Plainview1981]

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damn, Kobe and Vince don't have many blocks either. They're such stiffs... great commentary there hots..

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Those two are guards... JS and MW are 6'9 fowards. You do understand there's a difference don't you?

Funny thing is that Kobe Bryant actually matches Marvin Willims in terms of BPG.

[chillzatl]

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Also Marvin can't jump anywhere near as high as Smoove.

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again, I point you to the pre-draft videos. Just because his entire game isn't based off being able to jump and dunk, doesn't mean he can't.

also, I don't recall marvin getting his "dunks" blocked. He did have some shots block. But dunks? I drawing blanks on that one.

[Popeye]

Woody said that MArvin was brought along slowly in his rookie season and he said that Smoove wasn't.

So i think SMoove had more freedom than Marvin. In his rookie year Antoine got traded and Harrington was injured in the second half so that's why Smoove had a better rookie season.

We will see what's Marvin second season like in about few months and than compare.

[chillzatl]

the point is that the position you play doesn't require you to compile any specific stats. Since when are SF's required to be 3bpg players? They aren't... just as BPG isn't any indication of a players athleticism or their defensive ability.

[AHF]

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just as BPG isn't any indication of a players athleticism or their defensive ability.

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I wouldn't go that far!

BPG correlates very well with defensive ability. Here are the top 25 guys in bpg - there is a very strong correlation between blocks and defensive ability, although they are not one and the same:

1 Marcus Camby , DEN

2 Andrei Kirilenko , UTA

3 Alonzo Mourning , MIA

4 Josh Smith , ATL

5 Elton Brand , LAC

6 Samuel Dalembert , PHI

7 Joel Przybilla , POR

8 Jermaine O'Neal , IND

9 Ben Wallace , DET

10 Eddie Griffin , MIN

11 Gerald Wallace , CHA

12 Tim Duncan , SAS

13 Emeka Okafor , CHA

14 Pau Gasol , MEM

15 DeSagana Diop , DAL

16 Shaquille O'Neal , MIA

17 Zydrunas Ilgauskas , CLE

18 Shawn Marion , PHX

19 Ming Yao , HOU

20 Rasheed Wallace , DET

21 Adonal Foyle , GSW

22 Theo Ratliff , POR

23 Kendrick Perkins , BOS

24 Kevin Garnett , MIN

25 Shane Battier , MEM

[chillzatl]

I think we agree perfectly. as I said and you seconded, they are not one in the same. Just because a player doesn't have a high BPG, that doesn't mean he's not a good or even great defensive player (bowen, artest, etc). And thusly, just because he has high BPG, doesn't mean he's a great defender (pryz, smooth, dalembert, etc).

the only people in the top 10 that I would consider great or even very good defenders are AK47, Big Ben and MAYBE Camby. The rest of those guys are above average at best.

[exodus]

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also, I don't recall marvin getting his "dunks" blocked. He did have some shots block. But dunks? I drawing blanks on that one.

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Actually Marvin was getting a lot of his dunks blocked early in the year. At one point almost half of his inside shots were getting blocked.

However those numbers dropped significantly as the season went on.

http://www.82games.com/0506/05ATL10A.HTM

The reason is simple. Early in the year Marvin always went up to dunk 2 handed which made it easy for the defenders in front of him to reach the ball for the block.

He eventually started going up for dunks one handed, cocking the ball to make it tougher for defenders in front of him to block.

[chillzatl]

I remember a lot of those shots. those two handed attempts were what I was seeing in my head. But I never thought he was trying to dunk them becuase many of them were right under the basket, more layup attempts, IMO, than dunk attempts. Not that I'm disagreeing, I just never considered them dunk attempts.

[Plainview1981]

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the point is that the position you play doesn't require you to compile any specific stats. Since when are SF's required to be 3bpg players? They aren't... just as BPG isn't any indication of a players athleticism or their defensive ability.

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Well, I'm not huge on blocks either as I said several times. But I still don't believe that Marvin is as athletic as Smoove. You've seen him ALOT more than I have. I'm just going by what I've seen. Which is only a couple of games.

I think Marvin is a good athlete, but not a really great one.

"

the point is that the position you play doesn't require you to compile any specific stats. Since when are SF's required to be 3bpg players?"

I think both Smoove and MW are 3's... Smoove is a better dunker and shot blocker and I believe he can possibly be quicker sideline to sideline... Which to me suggests he's a better athlete.

But, I'll be able to watch the entire season this year and will see for myself.

[Plainview1981]

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I remember a lot of those shots. those two handed attempts were what I was seeing in my head. But I never thought he was trying to dunk them becuase many of them were right under the basket, more layup attempts, IMO, than dunk attempts. Not that I'm disagreeing, I just never considered them dunk attempts.

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About the potential thing... I think Marvin will be a 20/7 go to guy while Smoove will be a better allround player I think.

Marvin's strong point is that he will be a go-to guy. The weak part is that I believe he will not make a GREAT impact on the boards or be a great defensive player.

Smooth on the other hand will provide the team with a balance of just about everything... His weak point I think is that he'll never be a go to scorer.

[chillzatl]

you'll be able to sure, BUT WILL YOU????

I can only point to Exodus combine stats that support that Marvin is Smooths equal in the athleticsm department. I'm not dogging on smooth at all. I'm just saying that just because smooth can and often does jump very high and dunk the ball, he's not a better athlete because of it.