JohnnyBravo and gsuteke

[TheNorthCydeRises]

LOL . . I might be wrong in calling you two guys out, but . . . how IDIOTIC did you two look last night in that Cle-Atl thread?

LOL @ the comment . . "I'd rather have Smoove in the game with 3 fouls and a 8 point lead, than to have him out of the game with 2 fouls and down 4."

Good lord man. THAT'S exactly when you take Smoove out. The 2nd half of the game is much more important than the first because just about every NBA team makes some kind of a run in the 2nd half. So I'd rather have Smoove on the floor the majority of the 2nd half, than have him play timid because he's afraid of picking up foul #3 by halftime.

Seriously, until both of you guys give some sound commentary about what the Hawks should be doing, you shouldn't call ANYBODY . . on this board and especially our coach . . AN IDIOT!!

It's almost like when you two guys stopped posting in that thread, the Hawks started playing better.

Salim isn't on the floor for a reason. And we're winning with him off of the floor. So what's the problem?

This isn't about seeing your favorite player get playing time. This is about the overall good of the team. Salim will get a chance to contribute in a game. He won't be buried on the bench the entire year. But for now, Bozeman is doing a good job guarding PGs and 2-guards. And he's a much better help defender. If you guys were actually WATCHING the games, you would know that already.

I promise this will be the last time I call out somebody on this board by name in a thread that I start. But this had to be said.

Keep the "Woodson is an idiot" comments to yourselves, if you don't know how to manage a game to keep your best players in the game at the end. This is what a bench is for . . to spell the starters when they get tired or when they get in foul trouble. The stellar play of the bench on offense and on defense, is the most important reason why we're 3 - 1 right now.

So the next time both of you call Woodson "an idiot", hold the mirror up to your own face.

[Johnnybravo4]

Well I started posting in the ISH game thread, since it was just me and gsuteke playing tag all nite. I think we are winning in spite of Woody, but I am not going to thrash on him after a 3-1 start.

In any event, I don't need your approval to criticize the ineptness of our coaching. How about you worry about yourself and don't read my posts if you like em

[TheNorthCydeRises]

LOL.

It's just a tired act by you two guys, every time we start losing or get behind in the game.

LOL . . we win despite of Woody, but lose because of him?

Come on now, you can't have it both ways.

Woody managed that game very well last night. And if it wasn't for the turnovers in the 1st half, the Hawks could've easily been up 10 - 15 points at halftime.

[chillzatl]

That's the M.O with most everyone, with respect to their particular scapegoats. Hell man, we had someone in chat last night, when we were down 2 near the end saying "we're choking this game away!". A few minutes later, when we were up and hitting shots with confidence, the same guy was saying "we're choking this game away!". That had me on the floor.

[Final_quest]

Well there are a few different types of sports fans. Northcyde is more analytical. Teke and JB are more emotional.

[drzachary]

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That's the M.O with most everyone, with respect to their particular scapegoats. Hell man, we had someone in chat last night, when we were down 2 near the end saying "we're choking this game away!". A few minutes later, when we were up and hitting shots with confidence, the same guy was saying "we're choking this game away!". That had me on the floor.

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There was so much premature jinxing in the chatroom last night, I had to look away.

[gsuteke]

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LOL . . I might be wrong in calling you two guys out, but . . . how IDIOTIC did you two look last night in that Cle-Atl thread?

LOL @ the comment . . "I'd rather have Smoove in the game with 3 fouls and a 8 point lead, than to have him out of the game with 2 fouls and down 4."

Good lord man. THAT'S exactly when you take Smoove out. The 2nd half of the game is much more important than the first because just about every NBA team makes some kind of a run in the 2nd half. So I'd rather have Smoove on the floor the majority of the 2nd half, than have him play timid because he's afraid of picking up foul #3 by halftime.

Seriously, until both of you guys give some sound commentary about what the Hawks should be doing, you shouldn't call ANYBODY . . on this board and especially our coach . . AN IDIOT!!

It's almost like when you two guys stopped posting in that thread, the Hawks started playing better.

Salim isn't on the floor for a reason. And we're winning with him off of the floor. So what's the problem?

This isn't about seeing your favorite player get playing time. This is about the overall good of the team. Salim will get a chance to contribute in a game. He won't be buried on the bench the entire year. But for now, Bozeman is doing a good job guarding PGs and 2-guards. And he's a much better help defender. If you guys were actually WATCHING the games, you would know that already.

I promise this will be the last time I call out somebody on this board by name in a thread that I start. But this had to be said.

Keep the "Woodson is an idiot" comments to yourselves, if you don't know how to manage a game to keep your best players in the game at the end. This is what a bench is for . . to spell the starters when they get tired or when they get in foul trouble. The stellar play of the bench on offense and on defense, is the most important reason why we're 3 - 1 right now.

So the next time both of you call Woodson "an idiot", hold the mirror up to your own face.

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if you want Smoove out of the game with 2 fouls at the 3:30 mark in the 2nd when you have a 6 point lead then you are idiotic. you can try to spin this all you want with revisionist history since the Hawks overcame that deficit Woody created for them with this goober move when they were up by 6. the bottom line is the game never should have went to OT. the Hawks had their hands around the Cavs' necks late in the 2nd and let them off the hook.

i stopped posting at 9 o'clock. i'm at work until 9 o'clock. i listen to the game on league pass. if you'd read the posts you'd know that.

i could care less about Salim.

and Woodson was an idiot when he pulled Chillz and Smoove at that very moment. the Hawks were up by 6 when i made that post. moments later they were down by 1. i don't need to use revisionist history to show you I was right when i posted that. the thread is time stamped. and by the way, I was right!

Northcyde you can sit around and pray for rain in the form of King James missing free throws all night long. i'd rather see some sound strategy exercised by the coaching staff.

Go Hawks!!!!

[TheNorthCydeRises]

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if you want Smoove out of the game with 2 fouls at the 3:30 mark in the 2nd when you have a 6 point lead then you are idiotic.

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Well then, most coaches are idiotic then, seeing that bench players usually get the majority of their minutes in the 2nd half. Our bench should be able to sustain a lead with 3 minutes to go in a half.

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you can try to spin this all you want with revisionist history since the Hawks overcame that

deficit

Woody created for them with this goober move when they were up by 6. the bottom line is the game never should have went to OT. the Hawks had their hands around the Cavs' necks late in the 2nd and let them off the hook.

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LOL @ woody created the decifit. Here's the play-by-play of the 2nd quarter for you

http://scores.espn.go.com/nba/playbyplay?g...107005&period=2

Combined with the fouling we were doing, we also were missing point blank shots. Speedy missed 2 shots from 5 feet and in plus a long jumper and ZaZa missed a lay-up. But I forgot . . that's all WOODSON'S FAULT !!

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i stopped posting at 9 o'clock. i'm at work until 9 o'clock. i listen to the game on league pass. if you'd read the posts you'd know that.

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I know what time you leave work. I also know that Johnny also stopped posting around the same time. And when you guys stopped posting, the Hawks started playing better. LOL . . that's all I was saying.

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i could care less about Salim.

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I know . . . that Salim comment was for Johnny, since he can't understand why Salim isn't playing.

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and Woodson was an idiot when he pulled Chillz and Smoove at that very moment.

the Hawks were up by 6 when i made that post. moments later they were down by 1. i don't need to use revisionist history to show you I was right when i posted that. the thread is time stamped. and by the way,

I was right!

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No sir . . . you're still wrong. This team isn't supposed to fall apart when a few starters leave the game. And we still had JJ, Speedy, and ZaZa out on the floor. That's more than enough offensive firepower to get us to the half with a lead. They just didn't execute on offense, and Cleveland got back into the game.

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Northcyde you can sit around and pray for rain in the form of King James missing free throws all night long. i'd rather see some sound strategy exercised by the coaching staff.

Go Hawks!!!!

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So how did we get back into the game then gusteke? And guess who were able to stay in the game the ENTIRE 4TH QUARTER, because they were able to stay out of serious foul trouble? I'll give you a hint. Both of them go by the name of Josh.

By the way, the Hawks missed just as many free throws in the 4th quarter ( 7 ) as the Cavs did. And if Lue hits his 2 free throws with a minute to go, the Hawks are up 4, instead of up 2 . . which would've forced the Cavs to not only hit that 3, but stop us again.

You can't have it both ways gsuteke.

You can't blame the coach for putting us in a hole, and not give him credit for making the right moves for getting us out of the hole. If Woodson had nothing to do with the win, he definitely wouldn't have had anything to do with the loss. We committed 14 first half turnovers and missed 11 freee throws in the game ( 7 in the fourth quarter ).

Sorry man . . that's not on the coach.

[gsuteke]

Read over the entire game thread. tell me if anything i said was out of line.

read it all post by post now putting them into context with what was going on in the game.

you can see my reaction when i got home just as OT started and was able to watch the end.

the last word is yours.

[Sothron]

Don't sweat this guy, gsuteke. I think your sig fits northcyde to a "T". Some people are here because they are fans of the Hawks, some are just here to try and make points off internet posters.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

You're whole thing is that Woodson was an idiot for taking Smoove and Chill out when he did. Almost every coach in the league would do the same thing he did, to keep some of his main guys out of foul trouble.

My only point is this. If you question substitution patterns, and don't fully understand why he did what he did, then you can't call the coach "an idiot".

Because you obviously don't understand why saving your players to be able to play all-out in the 4th quarter, is more important than playing them in the final 3 minutes of a half, just to protect a small lead.

Now . . you can have the last word if you want.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

LOL @ Soth. Please. I've blown up your idiotic arguments as well about this team and the coach.

I've been a die hard fan of the Hawks since 1985, and has taken just as much grief about this team, as everybody else has.

And my allegiance to this team has NEVER wavered one bit.

I'm not saying that you guys can't criticize things. Just be sensible when you do. And if you criticize, you also have to give credit where credit is due.

The fact is this: only a few Hawks fans and no experts thougth this team could come close to doing what they're doing now, with Marvin gone and Speedy not at even 75%.

But because WOODY has coached these guys up, and the role players understand fully what they're expected to do on a nightly basis, this team is damn near clicking on all cylinders.

So if none of you want to give the coach at least 50% of the credit for our success, then you're the real idiots . . not the coach.

[gsuteke]

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Don't sweat this guy, gsuteke. I think your sig fits northcyde to a "T". Some people are here because they are fans of the Hawks, some are just here to try and make points off internet posters.

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I have been around Northcyde over at ESPN in the past. he's the most condascending M'Fer you'll ever come across but he's makes legit points. it's not personal.

[gsuteke]

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if you want Smoove out of the game with 2 fouls at the 3:30 mark in the 2nd when you have a 6 point lead then you are idiotic.

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Well then, most coaches are idiotic then, seeing that bench players usually get the majority of their minutes in the 2nd half. Our bench should be able to sustain a lead with 3 minutes to go in a half.

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you can try to spin this all you want with revisionist history since the Hawks overcame that

deficit

Woody created for them with this goober move when they were up by 6. the bottom line is the game never should have went to OT. the Hawks had their hands around the Cavs' necks late in the 2nd and let them off the hook.

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LOL @ woody created the decifit. Here's the play-by-play of the 2nd quarter for you

http://scores.espn.go.com/nba/playbyplay?g...107005&period=2

Combined with the fouling we were doing, we also were missing point blank shots. Speedy missed 2 shots from 5 feet and in plus a long jumper and ZaZa missed a lay-up. But I forgot . . that's all WOODSON'S FAULT !!

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i stopped posting at 9 o'clock. i'm at work until 9 o'clock. i listen to the game on league pass. if you'd read the posts you'd know that.

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I know what time you leave work. I also know that Johnny also stopped posting around the same time. And when you guys stopped posting, the Hawks started playing better. LOL . . that's all I was saying.

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i could care less about Salim.

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I know . . . that Salim comment was for Johnny, since he can't understand why Salim isn't playing.

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and Woodson was an idiot when he pulled Chillz and Smoove at that very moment.

the Hawks were up by 6 when i made that post. moments later they were down by 1. i don't need to use revisionist history to show you I was right when i posted that. the thread is time stamped. and by the way,

I was right!

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No sir . . . you're still wrong. This team isn't supposed to fall apart when a few starters leave the game. And we still had JJ, Speedy, and ZaZa out on the floor. That's more than enough offensive firepower to get us to the half with a lead. They just didn't execute on offense, and Cleveland got back into the game.

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Northcyde you can sit around and pray for rain in the form of King James missing free throws all night long. i'd rather see some sound strategy exercised by the coaching staff.

Go Hawks!!!!

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So how did we get back into the game then gusteke? And guess who were able to stay in the game the ENTIRE 4TH QUARTER, because they were able to stay out of serious foul trouble? I'll give you a hint. Both of them go by the name of Josh.

By the way, the Hawks missed just as many free throws in the 4th quarter ( 7 ) as the Cavs did. And if Lue hits his 2 free throws with a minute to go, the Hawks are up 4, instead of up 2 . . which would've forced the Cavs to not only hit that 3, but stop us again.

You can't have it both ways gsuteke.

You can't blame the coach for putting us in a hole, and not give him credit for making the right moves for getting us out of the hole. If Woodson had nothing to do with the win, he definitely wouldn't have had anything to do with the loss. We committed 14 first half turnovers and missed 11 freee throws in the game ( 7 in the fourth quarter ).

Sorry man . . that's not on the coach.

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1. our bench is pretty weak. Cedrick Bozeman and Matt Frejie are playing over their heads. let's be realistic here. when you've got a lead late in the 2nd by 6 and you are the Atlanta Hawks you have to take advantage of it by putting your best foot forward.

2. Speedy hasn't been playing well. if you and I know that Woodson surely knows it. Zaza isn't a creator. when he pulled Chillz and Smoove out of the game I panicked, and for good reason. I still stand behind the fact the lead went from 6 to -1 in short fashion.

3. I don't have the luxury to revisit what I posted as the game was unfolding after the fact. it is my contention if Josh and Josh stayed in the game the lead would have been maintained or built upon. I will give you the point Smoove finished the game with 5 fouls. that being said you have to give me that it isn't a given he would have picked up one at the end of the 1st when the Hawks were peaking.

4. yes Lue choked. why point it out though when he made up for it in the end? that's my philosophy, therefore i passed on the opportunity to bang on him.

5. I can blame Woodson for not giving us the best opportunity to win last night IMO. we had them down on the ground. we let them back up. Woody could have given the Atlanta Hawks an opportunity to take control of the game right there, instead we wound up relying on luck down the stretch to a degree. the most critical moment of a game is when you have an opportunity to knock an opponent out, whether that is in the 2nd quarter or the fourth.

unfortunately there is little room for error on Woody's part this year. he will have to outcoach 2/3 of the NBA on any given night. I wish him well. in the future i'll use the term "doofus," will that be more appropriate? unlike others on this forum I understand absolutes simply do not exist, I view the world in shades of grey.

[TexasPete]

There are two schools of thought on taking guys out when they get their second foul in the first half. Although I'm not a big Woody fan, I would have played it just like he did last night. First, the absolute last thing you want or need is one of your main guys picking up their 3rd foul in the first half. It changes the mindset of the player and 3 fouls at the half IS FOUL TROUBLE...two is not. However, if your team is down and threatening to go down further in the first half...you may go ahead and put your guy back in hoping he doesn't get his 3rd.

Case in point...the other day when we beat Orlando, Dwight Howard picked up his second foul in the first quarter. Brian Hill wanted to leave him out the rest of the half but with about 5 minutes left in the first half, and the Hawks threatening to build up a huge lead, Hill gambled and put Howard back in. He ended up picking up a quick 3rd (kind of weak call) and his gamble failed. With a lead in that sitaution you take your guy out because that game last night wasn't going to be decided in the first half...Orlando was down 10 and fading, Atlanta was up 6...big difference. IMO, Woody played it right.

Its really not that big a deal though.

[gsuteke]

thanks for chiming in HotSauce. where's your boy?

[TexasPete]

Right now he is talking to your boss about all the web surfing you do when your at work.

[gsuteke]

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Right now he is talking to your boss about all the web surfing you do when your at work.

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LOL actually i have thought about that. thanks HotSauce, i knew all along you had my best interests at heart

P.S. websense is a b!tch.