thesheedera Posted January 6, 2007 Author Report Share Posted January 6, 2007 He's been inconsistent. Some games he's been really good, some games he's been really bad. What I expect is that posters would take note of BOTH, not just one. He had a nice stretch of games after he got his legs back but he was turning the ball over too much. He then had a very rough stretch of two games where he was doing everything poorly. The last two games he's been looking better. This thread isn't about YOU Diesel, its about the whole board and how it deals with Marvin. But still, I would welcome an in-depth analysis from you, rather than your staple comments about the highest pick of all time, bad attitudes and his lack of production in college. Go ahead, write a diatribe about your specific observations on Marvin this season. I'd love to see more detail than "he's sorry". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member hawkman Posted January 6, 2007 Premium Member Report Share Posted January 6, 2007 Quote: It's not anti Marvin or pro Marvin it's shouldn't be anyway. It's pro Hawks. I'm here to support the Hawks. That even includes Marvin. Hell, i was the only one brave and fool enough to believe we could win our next 4.. and that's with Marvin. However, these little microcosisms that seperate us, shouldn't if we're Hawks fans. Last night, we lost as a team and there was really nothing redeeming to pull from it. Exactly. The game last night sucked and there's not much positive you can get from that. I'm definitely not anti-marvin or anti-anything if it can help this team start winning again. I want this team to win so bad but it's just not happening this season. That 4-1 start was probably the worst thing that could have happened because it truly got my hopes up. No more excuses. No more "moral victories". It's time for some results. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Diesel Posted January 6, 2007 Premium Member Report Share Posted January 6, 2007 Unfortunately Sheedera... The facts will always be. He will remain to be the highest pick int he franchise history. He will remain to be the guy we passed up Paul and Deron for. That won't ever change. Just like it will be in the minds of Hawksquawkers everywhere, it will also be in the minds of the Hawks. So excuse me if I don't come running to post analysis about 1 good game that we lost! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thesheedera Posted January 6, 2007 Author Report Share Posted January 6, 2007 Where did I post anything that said I expect you to "fawn" over him? My whole point is that there weren't any comments at all. Nothing positive or negative. Just as if he didn't even play in the game. But before this game, there was plenty of chatter about him. Don't fawn, just comment on what you thought about his game. If tyou thought he played soft at times (which he did), then say that. If you liked that he stopped settling for jumpshots (which he did), then say that. If you wish he'd look to create more for his teammates (which he's not doing enough of), then say that. I am posting about a specific game played by a specific player. But you have to bring up his potential, where he was drafted, and wht he isn't yet. Why not just comment on the games as they happen, in the context of the game itself from time to time? That's what a lot of fans do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJlaysitup Posted January 6, 2007 Report Share Posted January 6, 2007 Quote: Marvin definitely deserves praise, because he looked pretty good last night. The thing is, that kind of game isn't unusual for him lately...it's jut that it's not unusual for him to score 5 or 6 points the next night, either... Did anybody posting watch the whole game? Anytime a hand was in his face it was "air Marvin"...meaning air ball from the perimeter. Sure, he scored some points - as I mentioned on another thread - no nba team loses 100 -10. Somebody gets some stats. But he wasn't a factor in making it a competitve game. Points in a blowout don't mean diddly IMO. I'm not gonna say he has no future - but if last night's game is supposed to be a big thing for Marvin - watch the replay of the game closely and watch how clumsy he looked trying to drive. Yes - his jumper was on when JJ or Speedy was doubled and dished to him and he was wide open...and he got a few rebounds. You can hate me all you want but watch the tape of the game...it's just the facts man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popeye Posted January 6, 2007 Report Share Posted January 6, 2007 Quote: The facts will always be. He will remain to be the highest pick int he franchise history. That won't ever change. You think so? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thesheedera Posted January 6, 2007 Author Report Share Posted January 6, 2007 Quote: The facts will always be. He will remain to be the highest pick int he franchise history. He will remain to be the guy we passed up Paul and Deron for. That's true. But those aren't the only facts out there. Other facts: That draft is over, there's nothing we can do about it. Marvin is a Hawk whether you want him to be or not. He IS young, whether you want him to be fully mature or not. Its too bad (for me) that some of you guys took this thread as an opportunity to give me reasons not to comment on his game, instead of commenting on his game. If you don't want to comment on his game, you could ignore the thread. I never once asked anyone to praise Marvin. I was just wondering why only one poster had even mentioned him. The answer is clear, the board is more interested in rahashing draft picks and mnagerial decisions than it is commenting on specific players playing in specific games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thesheedera Posted January 6, 2007 Author Report Share Posted January 6, 2007 Thank you DJ, you at least commented on how he played. I disagree about the game not being competitive. We were within about 10 points for a majority of the game. His production was throughout the game, and he did help keep us in it for the first 3 quarters. I watched it last night without paying much attention, and watched the game again this morning before I came over to the Squawk. He is clumsy on some drives, but they were still effective drives. He only had two TOs, and one of them I think was at least questionable. But it was the most controlled game he's played. He airballed two shots, both longer range. He doesn't have a consistent jumper from 3 yet, but the jumper inside the line is solid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member hawkman Posted January 6, 2007 Premium Member Report Share Posted January 6, 2007 Quote: Where did I post anything that said I expect you to "fawn" over him? My whole point is that there weren't any comments at all. Nothing positive or negative. Just as if he didn't even play in the game. But before this game, there was plenty of chatter about him. Don't fawn, just comment on what you thought about his game. If tyou thought he played soft at times (which he did), then say that. If you liked that he stopped settling for jumpshots (which he did), then say that. If you wish he'd look to create more for his teammates (which he's not doing enough of), then say that. I am posting about a specific game played by a specific player. But you have to bring up his potential, where he was drafted, and wht he isn't yet. Why not just comment on the games as they happen, in the context of the game itself from time to time? That's what a lot of fans do. Didn't mean to bring up all of that other stuff. I'm just frustrated about the current situation. If you want my honest opinion on his game last night, fine. I though the game itself was garbage. It was hard to watch because I truly believe that the Hawks have officially mailed it in for the season. Marv always seems to do well in games that don't seem to mean much. I don't mean that as a shot at him but it seems to be true. So far, he's played well in two situations: Summer league and garbage time. Last night's game was 48 minutes of garbage time. It was truly a listless performance from the Hawks and it was easy for Marvin to stand out in a game like that. On a positive note, he did mix it up a bit as far as scoring the ball and he played better defense. He was easily the most enthusiastic Hawk out there and I was pleasantly surprised by that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJlaysitup Posted January 6, 2007 Report Share Posted January 6, 2007 I pretty much agree with that. and by the way...Marvin didn't lose the game last night. Speedy looked like Slushy in the first half...slow as the dickens until he probably got yelled at at halftime by Woody. Zaza was a mixture of average to bad. JC showed energy but still has that jumper he can't get off in traffic. Nobody else did much ....Shelden looked good early. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TexasPete Posted January 6, 2007 Report Share Posted January 6, 2007 Great post thesheedera...I'm with you on Marvin and the chuckleheads who can't see this guys upside should start following soccer. This kid will be a great player. Not good...GREAT. He is 6 months until he is 20. He has loads of athleticism, a nice work ethic, and the desire to be a great player. The kid doesn't even go out on the road, instead staying in and watching film and getting ready to play. He went to college at17 which is why he went at all. I'm through defending him because he won't need it much longer. Diesel's posts, most which are just ridiculous, should be ignored on this topic. He has no credibility and wouldn't praise the kid even if he scored 30 every night. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Walter Posted January 6, 2007 Report Share Posted January 6, 2007 Quote: Great post thesheedera...I'm with you on Marvin and the chuckleheads who can't see this guys upside should start following soccer. This kid will be a great player. Not good...GREAT. He is 6 months until he is 20. He has loads of athleticism, a nice work ethic, and the desire to be a great player. ...and I watched an awful lot of him at UNC. He's never showed greatness IMO. I even see his great character as a potential flaw recalling something about his not even much likeing the sport (although I may not be remembering the qote well). Frankly, greatness at any age doesn't look so bad. I wish he would turn out to be great, but I've never seen it. W Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJlaysitup Posted January 6, 2007 Report Share Posted January 6, 2007 Quote: Great post thesheedera...I'm with you on Marvin and the chuckleheads who can't see this guys upside should start following soccer. This kid will be a great player. Not good...GREAT. He is 6 months until he is 20. He has loads of athleticism, a nice work ethic, and the desire to be a great player... Well TP...I can't stand soccer (or hockey for that matter)...I'm a bit of a basketball junkie. Marvin is young. Well then why isn't he in school. I never criticize ametuer athletes (much)...but once you take that signing bonus age doeasn't matter. Perform or get the #### out of the way for someone who will. I'm no Marvin hater but I'm tired of people saying Marvin is too young (while he is cashing Hawks paychecks)...and Zaza is a "Bargain" when nothing is a bargain if it isn't any good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TexasPete Posted January 6, 2007 Report Share Posted January 6, 2007 ^^^^^I meant 6 months shy of 21...anyway, MW's big crime is being young and not as far along as the two PG's. We needed more immediate help and that is not what BK drafted. Marvin will be a beast by the time he is 22. How dare he take so long to develop! As for the poster who said he had no scoring moves? He hasn't been to a game. Marvin gets to the line better than any Hawk and it isn't close. How does he do that with no moves? He beats his guy off the dribble and gets into the paint and draws contact. He also has the nicest stroke on the team and that will get better with time. He jumps out of the gym...this guy needs a better post game, but who doesn't on the Hawks? I can't wait to come here in a couple of years and start ramming Marvin down Diesels and some others throats. We will all see the "wisdom" of you ripping the consensus best choice in that draft. The same people here who have all the patience in the world for Smith won't give Marvin the same. And Smith is actually OLDER. Back off Marvin. You want to place blame? Start with Woodson and Knight...and keep looking up to Levenson, Gearon, Seydel, Peskowitz, et al...blame the ass clowns that are truly responsible and keep incompetance in place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wurider05 Posted January 6, 2007 Report Share Posted January 6, 2007 It seems that other people on this board like to talk about the potential of players on other teams but they like to crap on our own players. Marvin just like this team is inconsistent but for anyone to say that he doesn't have a good upside they you are either blind or stupid. HE HAS GOTTEN BETTER Than he was last year. His scoring average has increased by 5 points and he has the second best jumper on the team. Honestly I think Diesel wants that guy to average 30 ppg 10 rbs and 12 assists a game. We can't go back in time and redo the draft so why do you guys keep whining about the draft from two damn years ago. Now with that being said he needs to improve his rebounding and get that field goal percentage up to around 46-50%. In all honestly I feel that Woody maybe holding him back alittle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Walter Posted January 6, 2007 Report Share Posted January 6, 2007 Quote: The same people here who have all the patience in the world for Smith won't give Marvin the same. And Smith is actually OLDER. Back off Marvin. ...only MW was a #2 pick and not a #17 pick. I think JS is far and away the better player with the greater upside right now. I prefer not coddling either of them. You should hold MW accountable. W Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJlaysitup Posted January 6, 2007 Report Share Posted January 6, 2007 Quote: ..I prefer not coddling either of them... W That's why baseball has a much better system. Sure, you can come straight out of high school...then do it at single A pal...then do it at double A...then triple. Then "maybe" you get the call. Performance first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SmooveTheFuture Posted January 6, 2007 Report Share Posted January 6, 2007 I dont give praise to players who have one good game out of 5 games. Sorry thats showing up when you want to if we would have won the game it would have been a different story also. Lets see what he does 2night. When you lose to a team you beat twice this year by 13. NO one should say anything no matter who had a good game it was an embarssing. I can care less if Marvin score 30 or 3 as long as the Hawks win a game. Its a team game and right now as a team we are as bad as they come. I also wanna add Marvin has alot pressure on him and fans know this when you take someone 2nd overall and pass on great players fans dont WANT TO HEAR Patience they want results esp. on a team like the Hawks who havent won anything in years. We passed on two allstar PGS to get him. When we had a 4-5 SFs on the roster. So IMO if hes not a multiple allstar in this league very soon hes a bust thats just IMO. THe guy needs to impact the game in ways just not scoring but doing other things like rebounding which he is poor at. Defense making good plays and passes he does none of that. All he is doing is having a good scoring night every once in a while we need much more then that from our 2nd overall pick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJlaysitup Posted January 6, 2007 Report Share Posted January 6, 2007 yep Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJlaysitup Posted January 6, 2007 Report Share Posted January 6, 2007 Quote: I dont give praise to players who have one good game out of 5 games.... Truth is (in my way of looking at things)...stats aren't important if you aren't in the game (meaning a close competitive game). Look at the game rundown at UASToday and realize we occasionally got to 8 or 10 points down and then were knocked back up to 15 down. Hell...I watched the damn game...every time I got to hoping we could make a run they did layups or hit UNDEFENDED perimeter shots. We are so weak inside that we don't defend on the perimeter at all...or...we have little quickness at the guard spots. I dunno. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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