How reliable is RATLIFF?

[cyman3]

Cuz i have a feeling that our season can turn upside down with 1 injury to Ratliff.

We are putting soo much hope into 1 person. Anyway we can fix that?

Pretend we lose this guy- all of a sudden, our BIG MAN roster looks bad. Theres a BIG difference between

C: Ratliff, Mohammed

PF: Abdur-Rahim, Henderson, Smith

and

C: Mohammed, Smith

PF: Abdur-Rahim, Henderson

-im hoping ratliff has an INJURY-FREE season this year!

[hds428]

I think Theo is important to our defense, but if ONLY Theo goes down this year, I'll be relieved. I hope he stays healthy, but in all reality he's a gamble. What killed us last year was having Theo, Toni, CC, Hendu, Dion, and junkmail all on the IL at or around the same time, our injuries were to the point of unbelievable. Nazr proved that, while he's definitely no Theo, he can control the bleeding, as long as our roster isn't full of CBA and D Leaguers.

[Gray Mule]

Horrible problem: Take a look at this lineup from last season.

Center ------------ Theo Ratliff

Power Foreward ---- Alan Henderson

Small Foreward ----- Chris Crawford

Two Guard --------- Dion Glover

Point Guard ------- Emanuel Davis

Sixth Man --------- Toni Kuc.

Not a bad 6 man rotation, is it? In fact, this team is capable of winning in

the NBA with a few really good minor leaguers on the bench to give them

a breather now and then.

What was wrong? Why didn't we see this lineup? Therein lies the horrible

problem. IR claimed their services for much of the season. We all know that

but sometimes tend to forget when we think about last year's record.

This season, Hawks have the wonderful problem. I hope we keep this problem

all season.

What to do with all the players we have, all of which are healthy now. Twelve

is the number the NBA will allow. The rest must go somewhere. Great problem.

Last season, NBA had to grant Hawks an extra position on the IR and we still

had a player who was unable to play, listed as active and available to play, when

he had his arm in a cast. Hawks did that in order to have the minimum players

required by the NBA active for the game.

Keep the Hawks healthy and watch them win. Keep the IR list full and running

over all year and have a repeat of last season. There will be injuries. No doubt

about that. NBA ball is a violent sport. The floor is hard and there is no padding

on the players. Injuries will occur. Let's hope that this season's injuries will be

of the nature that only a few games on the bench will be sufficient for the healing

if the injury and whoever it is can continue his season.

We are told that Theo Ratliff has been "Rebuilt" and is better than new. I hope that

this is true. I hope we get a full season from him and all the players who filled

our IR roster last season. I hope we keep the "Good" problem of too many players.

Gray Mule

[KB21]

Don't make any mistake about it. Theo Ratliff was the key to the Hawks defense and still is. With him, I feel our team defense will improve big time. Without him, we will get more of what we had last year.

Theo was like our point man on defense during last year's preseason. He would bark out the defensive calls and tell each player where to go. His presence in the middle also kept people from driving towards the goal at will. With Nazr in there, that didn't happen. Our perimeter defenders were lost for 3/4ths of the season, and Nazr just doesn't pose a threat down low defensively.

[BlackHawkDown]

I think Ratliff if Healthy for 1 year will be above average. He will get a lot of blocks. But a center who is undersized and doesn't Rebound has to go the second he builds valu. Remember when he was worth a All Star Center.

[hds428]

and I don't think many of us have any illusions about it. Nazr is nowhere even close to Theo, and in the very few games he played for us, it was obvious that he was the floor general on the defensive end. But he is still a roll of the dice health wise, for me anyway, until I see what he's capable of, and I dont have the priviledge of watching these summer practices. I do think that Nazr has good attributes, even if D is'nt one of them, and Ira's defensive presence and Leon's size being on board for the long haul this season, would go a long way toward numbing the pain if Theo were to go down (no more Hanno Motolla playing center!). They played pretty good after the break last year with Ira in the lineup taking the reigns as the Newbilizer on D, and with Leon playing limited minutes. So if Theo were to go down, yeah it'd be pretty ugly, but we did play close to .500 after the all star break without him last year. So I don't think losing (just) Theo would be the end of the season, tho it would leave us teetering on the edge of it.

[Diesel]

if he is on the bench crying about a calf Sprain. Or a contract dispute. His value is defensive but he's not the defensive savior for the Hawks. We had this same team and Dikembe (who is much better than Theo) and we still were bad defensively. The reason being is that you can't count on one player to pull your defense up. Defense has always been and will always be a team thing. Look at those Old Chicago Bulls. They didn't rely on Scottie Pippen to carry them defensively. Defense was a team thing. Weather it was MJ with the 2 on 1 defense or Rodman shutting down the opponents Big Man, Defense was Team oriented and everyone played it. We still have question marks.

My point in trading is:

1. BUILD UP the TEAM Offense.

2. Cover up any holes on the team.

3. Rely on a decent team defense.

That's a plan that works if you have the right coaching. Look at Sacramento.

[hds428]

So if he has no value to a 30-odd win team, why are you so cinvinced that other teams will give us anything more than scraps for him?? Battier... Odom..... Big Dog???? If he's worthless to the lowly Atlanta Hawks, what's to make anyone think he has value to any other team in the league???

[Guest]

Deke alot better than Theo healthy...I'm not so sure anymore...

If it is true that Philly is looking to dump him....I think Deke is

starting to get passed his prime to be honest with you.

[DJ_Money]

Deke is getting a bit over the hill. Guys like Deke, 'Zo, The Dream, Admiral, and Ewing are the last of a dying breed. All-Star caliber 7-footers just aren't that common any more. Shaq is the most dominating player in any sport, but his health leaves his long-term future in question.

Nowadays, teams are having a hard time finding a decent Center. You've gotta take on a project like 'Kandi, a foreign product like Ming, a guy who would rather play outside (Lafrentz), or search endlessly for the next Ben Wallace.

I'm glad we have Theo. When healthy, he is a presence in the paint. Things could be worse. We could have Nazr starting with Leon and Hanno as backups, or hell, we could have Shawn Bradley.

[Traceman]

[Traceman]

We never had SAR or Kukoc when Deke was here. We didn't even have Ira or E-Mail when Deke was here. There is HUGE difference between Hendu or Lo at PF and SAR. There is a HUGE difference between Ira and JJ defensively. Hell, there is a HUGE difference between JT defending at PG and defending at SG as he was most of the time that Deke was here. I think a lineup of:

Deke

SAR

Ira

DJ

JT

would have been solid defensively, the question would have been could we get enough offense out of Deke and DJ. If you put Theo in that lineup, you lose a little in man to man D in the low post but he's just as good (if not better) coming to help from the weak side and offensively, he's MUCH better than Deke.

I don't know what you definition of a "defensive savior" is but Theo comes as close to that as any player in the NBA other than Deke, Duncan or Shaq. Of course Theo won't be able to do it alone but assuming that DJ continues to improve his D and Ira stays the same, we will TONS better defensively this season than we were last season.

[Guest]

Fragments.

I said he is of no value to us if he is on the bench injured or out with a contract dispute.

Comprende?

[Guest]

When we had him... A healthy Deke was 10 times better than Theo. Theo could have never played against Shaq the way that Deke did... IF you doubt, ask any Philly fan who saw Brown have to play McCollough against Shaq when they met?

[Guest]

The team we had:

BK at the PG. JT at the pG Now. BK was a much better defender.

JT as the SG. DJ as the SG. Defensive DJ is better.

JJ at the SF. Ira as the Sf. Ira is a better defensive player but Ira probably won't start at SF this yr? He's more of an off the bench player. I doubt he play before Toni or CC?

Lo as the PF. SAR as the SF. While SAR is a better player, defensively, there is not that much difference between the two. SAR does nothing that is spectacular defensively and neither does Lo. IF Anything, Lo has better size to play PF.

Deke as C. Theo as C. Deke (then) was a helluva lot better than Theo will ever be.

My point is that Deke as an allstar C who kicked a** in that yrs allstar game could not make our team then better. Defense is not a one man thing. Theo will encounter the same problem. Even for you remembering Theo barking out defensive plays. That's nice, but I also remember us playing Washington and White and that big Kid out of Syracuse handing Theo his a**. I can't remember the Kids name but he abused Theo 2 times. Reason being is because Theo's so busy trying to play help out defense that he's out of position.

If we are wreckless enough to play DJ, Theo, and IRa at the same time, we will get beat by 20 most nights. We don't have enough scoring with that team. That's why we need to look into getting a guy like Battier who can play good defense ( a helluva lot better than IRa) and can put up more than 15 ppg. Or Eddie Griffin?

[Guest]

That he's been on the bench due to injury since he got here, and even though reports say he back to 100% he's still a gamble until he proves he's healthy. Comprende??? If he's got no value to us in an injured state, he's got no value to another team in the same state. COMPRENDE?????

[Traceman]

BK was a better defender than JT at PG when BK was here but I don't think he is a better defender now. JT's D has improved significantly. BK is too short, all the offensive player has to do is get in range and he's done. BK is a very good on ball defender but once the offensive player gets in range, he's toast because of his lack of height.

DJ and JT aren't even close when it comes to guarding SGs and that was a HUGE problem when Deke was here.

Ira is a shut down defender period. He started last year in front of Kukoc so I think it's reasonable to expect him to start in front of Kukoc again. Even if he doesn't start though, he's a better defender than anyone we had at SF or SG when Deke was here. He is such an upgrade over JJ that it's not even worth discusing.

SAR is a better defender than Lo as well. He might not be THAT much better, but he is better because he is more consistent.

I agree that Deke WAS a better defender than Theo.

In other words, the players we have to put around Theo are SIGNIFICANTLY better defensive players than the players we had to put around Deke. If we had Deke to go along with the players we have now, we would be a VERY solid defensive team. With Theo instead of Deke, we will still be pretty good defensively. In addition, while Deke is a better defensive player than Theo, Theo is a better offensive player than Deke. Theo will be an asset when we want to push the tempo while Deke bogs almost any offense down to a halt. Theo can knock down the open J consistently from 15 feet and he has a nice jump hook.

Saying we will get beat by 20 most nights playing Theo, Ira and DJ together is ridiculous and you know it! We didn't get beat by 20 on most nights with Nazr (or even Hanno) in the lineup with DJ and Ira, surely you are not suggesting that those guys are anywhere NEAR as good as Theo is defensively. Offensively, we will be better than we were last year too. Theo will score more than Nazr did and DJ will score more than he did last year as well. I think DJ is going to be almost as good as Battier offensively this year and better 2 years from now. That doesn't mean that I wouldn't like to have Battier. I would for the right price. If we could get him without giving up Theo, SAR, JT or DJ, I'm all for it. If Jerry West wants to send us Battier/filler for Nazr (or Kukoc)/pick, that's fine with me but if a deal to acquire Battier involves any of those 4 guys, Memphis can keep him. I wouldn't expect Jerry West to deal us Battier for anything less than one of the 4 guys I mentioned so Memphis can just keep him as far as I'm concerned.

[Diesel]

However,

Just like we were willing to take a chance on a injury prone allstar C, there will be some other team (in worst circumstance than us) who will be willing to trade for him.

For Instance, for the last two yrs, Vince Carter has missed time on te court because of Jumper's knee. He has had the Same Injury both yrs. Yet his trade value is still high ;however, he is of no value to the raptors while he is hurt. Theo doesn't have the same injury (1st yr wrist, 2nd yr Groin)... But Theo still has a value in trade... Similar to Vince, Similar to Mash... and Mash is not an allstar.

[Diesel]

I have to see Terry's on ball defense. Last I saw, he was still allowing his man to slip by and was losing them on the perimeter... BK didn't do that.

Dj is much better than JT then.

Ira is better than anybody we had.

However, SAR and Lo are about a wash. Neither does anything to talk about. Again, if anything, Lo has better size.

The other thing is that Deke was a better defender than Theo and even he couldn't push a team that was similar in defense to wins.

if you really want to bring up Offense.

JJ vs. Ira is a killer for your argument. JJ scored at least 16 ppg, Ira while better defensively only gives 8.

Deke vs. Theo offensively is questionable too. For so long we thought that Deke didn't have any offense, however, when he got under Larry's coaching, Deke fluorished on the offensive end. He started scoring more than 14 ppg. Offensively, his numbers rivaled Theo's numbers under Larry. Maybe he was even better??

[Guest Walter]

Deke has always been healthy so I don't know whay you chose this qualifier, but I assume you are mistaking his being OLD for "unhealthy". You can easily forsee OLD AGE. Well, actually you can't apparently.

"Deke 10 times better than Theo"? Not according to the NBA All-star balloting two years ago when they both played. Not according to head to head match-ups. Theo when healthy is better now, much less not "10 times (worse)" then. Theo can match up better against more NBA centers and teams than Deke can currently BY FAR!

As far as Deke against Shaq, everyone knows the key against Shaq isn't to play him at his game but to pull him outside and make him work on the offensive end (aside from the strategy of hack-a-shaq).

You can hardly keep Shaq in the paint more (thus, allowing him to help out better) and give Shaq more rest on the defensive end than his playing against Deke.

A healthy Theo is as good as Deke then, better than him now, and will only become increasingly better than him over the length of Deke's mammoth contract as Deke rapidly declines.

W