My Penny on the Hawks

[jaywalker72]

...if it's worth that much.

Let's do it, numbered and free form style:

1. There is Joe Johnson, and then there is nothing. When Joe came out, we stood around looking at each other. That's not good and won't stand up consistently.

2. There are simply not any other players that can create their own shot. Josh Smith shot well tonight, but he seemed to settle outside way too much and the Hawks were fortunate that his shots from the outside went down tonight.

It does seem a shame that this little attribute has not been addressed enough with these lotto picks....which leads me to:

3. Shelden and Marvin

Marvin...I am not feeling you. You are a very passive fellow when you look like you should be aggressive. You have a long frame which should give you an advantage over defenders, but you seem clueless and unwilling to exploit that. Get over your wallflower tendencies and you may begin to make good on your potential.

Shelden....What would you say you do for the Hawks? You seemed to get beat over the top for rebounds even when you had position. You seemed to not be able to contribute on the offensive end at all. You're short, slow, and not all that fundamentally sound on defense. You're not Antonio or Dale Davis. You have some mighty big work ahead of you big fella.

3. Zaza Pachulia looks like he needs help. Zaza was unable to create anything above an off balance shot for himself all night, even though the ball went to him in the post a good bit. He doesn't create for others with a good move or an instinct to pass. He's a decent backup, but his total lack of defensive presence was obvious, especially when Darko spun him. That's not good.

4. Salim Stoudamire is not the kind of player you need coming off the bench with a low tenured coach like Woodson. He needs discipline to shut down his unnecessary off balance jump shots. He thinks he's instant offense, but what he really is is a change of possession.

5. Josh Childress is fun to watch. Steady as a rock on both ends. But on offense he needs another gear to get to the rack. This is one player who desperately needs a playmaker at PG. Sadly, he's asked to bring the ball up some when Lue is not in the game.

6. The point guard position is atrocious. You can't have consistent play on the offense end without a playmaker controlling tempo. Joe Johnson is incredible, but not a drive and dish playmaker. He's a scorer. I couldn't help but think about the Marvin pick (which I am sure never happens here) and plug in one of the points from that draft. Childress would be that much better...as would Smith and everyone else.

I am missing some, but here is the point: The Hawks are too shallow talent wise and too tools heavy roster wise to be relevant. They need a playmaker to help develop the younger talent.

Also, this team is too young up and down to win consistently. Add in a coach cutting his teeth in the lead role and you have seen the results. This team needs some vets who are actually still able to contribute 30-35 a night to mix in with these kids. Babcock tried to build with 5 young guys as the nucleus and first time head coaches and it never developed. Guys stagnated without teammates who have been there to shoulder the load. Woodson can't hardly keep the team focused with so many kids to babysit. He needs quality vets (again, guys who should play 30-35 mpg, not over the hill or role players on winners) to help that load as well.

I was happy to see the team win. Very happy. Only guy in the arena cheering happy. It looked bleak for a while , but Smoove and of course the Amazing Joe Johnson came through. Great to watch the Magic "fans" roll out when the game was still in doubt.

But I don't believe you can count on that all year based on what I've written above....so there's still lots of work to do.

Big man and point guard please....of course that's been on Santa's list for quite a while now.

Good night, Hawks fans...We won tonight...Enjoy it while we have it.

[KB21]

Where and how in the world have you been?

[DJlaysitup]

Yep Jay...that pretty much nails it...but I would give JS a little more credit due to the intimidation factor on D and improvement on finishing around the basket.

[TexasPete]

That about descibes it. Shelden was supposed to at least be a beast on defense and his lack of any athleticism kills him in the pro game. Marvin has a long way to go but at least he has some tools.

We need a real PG in here in the worst way and BK still doesn't address it. Amazing. Speedy would be a nice defensive PG off the bench but hardly a starter. Even a Steve Blake would have been a big addition, BK just won't get us a PG that ignites the team.

BK needs to be shown the door and a real basketball guy brought in...lets stop drafting forwards for awhile and focus on what needs doing.

[Sothron]

Welcome to the bleak side of Hawks reality Jay. I knew it wouldn't take you long to reach it with the rest of us. A poorly put together team led by an idiot for a general manager and a literal bozo in the coaching seat. Toss in the worst ownership situation in professional sports history and its a recipe for suckitide.

[GST]

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2. There are simply not any other players that can create their own shot. Josh Smith shot well tonight, but he seemed to settle outside way too much and the Hawks were fortunate that his shots from the outside went down tonight.

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I am pretty sure Marvin was supposed to be the answer to this problem. He has the skills to create his own shot, but he doesn't seem to have the mentality for it. I still have hope that Marvin will start looking like the Marvin in summer league.

[DJlaysitup]

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... I still have hope that Marvin will start looking like the Marvin in summer league.

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I wish I had your faith GST...but alas...I don't. I don't see it at all. I don't hate on MW but I think he will be average at best. A jump shooting three when we already have a much better and more aggressive 3. Marvin will never sniff the all-star game IMO. His heart isn't in it.

He will be like SW...a backup on a good team.

(and that's eating crow cause I thought SW was the real deal)

[BusBoyIsBack]

You had some points until you said we didn't have any talent.

This team is loaded with talent. It's the youth that's holding it back with the dumb mistakes this team makes and lack of refined skills.

Without question we have talent on this team. WE have 3 players will all-star potential. So I doubt you can say the talent isn't there.

[Diesel]

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WE have 3 players will all-star potential. So I doubt you can say the talent isn't there.

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OK JJ is obvious

I like JSmoove for 200 Alex!!

But who's the third guy?

Dijon Thompson?

Must be Speedy Claxton!!! He has a ring you know!

Then again, Lue has a ring too!!

Could it be Lazy Lo??

I knew if Lo would ever work at it, he could be an allstar!

Seriously, I agree with you that we have loads of talent. I just think we have to be healthy and put it all together.

[DJlaysitup]

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....Seriously, I agree with you that we have loads of talent. I just think we have to be healthy and put it all together....

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Honestly (and check the record) I said we have ONE starting calibre NBA player on this team starting the season. Joe Johnson. and everybody hated me for saying it. My opinion was:

PG: two career backups.

SG: A great player - all-star calibre.

SF: two youngsters - MW and JS - who would be developing with small minutes on a good team (P.S....this has been changed here closely with JS being a real dominant player - but at the time he hadn't done that yet)

PF: A Rookie and ????

Center: Zaza and Lo (need I say more - a backup and a "depth" player).

I was torched. Ce' este la vie

Most have worked out as I thought except Josh Smith - who is exceptional.

[Sothron]

You should have seen how much some of us were crucified for not liking the Shellhead pick. He can't even rebound. I knew he couldn't be any kind of defensive stopper outside of college but I figured he could at least board some. Too bad he's too short, slow, short armed and has no hops to get rebounds.

[DJlaysitup]

Well I gotta be honest....I thought Shelden could do the job rebounding at least....IMA fool.

Shelden isn't what I expecteded

[DrReality]

I think the key point made is the coach not able to get the talent out of the guys we have and his inability to develop the young guys any better.

He preaches defensc, but it only shows up part of the time.

Welcome back JW.

[Diesel]

First you say Tank Tank Tank..

Now, we have a 2 game win streak on the road, comeback victories vs. a Good team and you're talking about how all of our players are scrubbs.

When we're not injured, we're a little better than .500.

You gotta hate it!!

[TheDude]

well i'm going to have to disagree with many of your points. One point I DO agree with is that we have youth and we need more vets to be more consistent NOW. However we have plenty of talent but again it's young so it's still developing. Josh Smith if you notice is becoming a beast out there on both ends of the court. You are correct on Chill and you are definitely correct on needed a dishing point (but we tried in free agency and Speedy was the best we could get) and needing a center.

Marvin is too passive yes but again we all knew he was a project. It's consistency we need from him. Sometimes he's fired up, sometimes he's not.

[DrReality]

JWalk

Curious if you have any 'hunches' on possible trades the hawks might make?

[DJlaysitup]

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First you say Tank Tank Tank..

Now, we have a 2 game win streak on the road, comeback victories...

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I'm a dyed in the wool fence sitter D. I pull for us to win all games - but when we lose I get smart and prefer to "tank".

even now I think we can win (or tank)...gotta pick one or the other soon though.

[jaywalker72]

Doc and others,

Outside of Joe and Josh (whom I did highlight as THE reasons we won in Orlando) I don't see starting caliber players on this team.

So when I say there is a lack of talent, that's what I'm talking about.

No doubt that Marvin could blossom...it's really up to him, which I stated. He has the NBA body, but does he have the NBA instinct. It was clear that he did not have any aggression in this game, but I saw it against lesser comp in the summer leagues.

Being Dion Glover is not going to cut it for Williams.

I didn't get to see Speedy play, of course, so can't really judge him here.

Childress could be a starting caliber player if there were a Nash-like PG playing with him. Otherwise, he's a Shane Battier type player that needs others to find him to score.

Who else is there that makes up this team full of talent? I may have missed it, but Johnson and Smith are it as of today. Marvin maybe later, Childress if someone comes along that plays like Kidd/Nash. That's not a team loaded with talent.

That's a team that will bump along, winning when Johnson and/or Smith plays a good game. Fortunately, Joe plays that game a lot, but teams will continue to send doubles and triples at him, especially in the fourth, and if he's all that can be counted on, then the team won't be a consistent winner.

[DJlaysitup]

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...No doubt that Marvin could blossom...

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Oh Holy Horse Sh!t...Marvin ain't gonna "blossom"...you know it and I know it.

Save your money Marvin.

[deester11]

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Doc and others,

Outside of Joe and Josh (whom I did highlight as THE reasons we won in Orlando) I don't see starting caliber players on this team.

So when I say there is a lack of talent, that's what I'm talking about.

No doubt that Marvin could blossom...it's really up to him, which I stated. He has the NBA body, but does he have the NBA instinct. It was clear that he did not have any aggression in this game, but I saw it against lesser comp in the summer leagues.

Being Dion Glover is not going to cut it for Williams.

I didn't get to see Speedy play, of course, so can't really judge him here.

Childress could be a starting caliber player if there were a Nash-like PG playing with him. Otherwise, he's a Shane Battier type player that needs others to find him to score.

Who else is there that makes up this team full of talent? I may have missed it, but Johnson and Smith are it as of today. Marvin

maybe

later, Childress if someone comes along that plays like Kidd/Nash. That's not a team loaded with talent.

That's a team that will bump along, winning when Johnson and/or Smith plays a good game. Fortunately, Joe plays that game a lot, but teams will continue to send doubles and triples at him, especially in the fourth, and if he's all that can be counted on, then the team won't be a consistent winner.

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Man, this is almost as good as the return of Superman....or not Jay. Good to see you. I have to agree....I think if Marvin had the aggression necessary, we're debating the one-two punch of Marv/JJ instead of JJ only.

I was one of the few who ripped BK for at least picking Shelden at #5. He's another piece that doesn't quite get you what you need, but I hold out hope that he improves and I'm not bashing him....but astute picking has not been BK's strengths. Where we were picking...we should have done more, but I'll leave that alone.