Let's not ignore how good Shelden Williams can be

[exodus]

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lol I like certain aspects of Yi's game, based on the limited footage I have seen

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Exactly.

I could make a highlight take of Royal Ivey that would make him look like an All-Star. That doesn't make him one.

[BusBoyIsBack]

You guys think Shelden can play center?

I know he's a midget but he makes the opposition work for buckets.

I think if that shoulder is healthy and he can bang again down low that would really help out his D.

He may not block shots, but as long as you can contest them that's all that matters.

If we take Conley at #3 and Shelden develops into our C then it's not so bad.

We could do whatever the hell we wanted with 11.

[Plainview1981]

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A lot of you are still pissed that we took him last year and I have to admit that I still wish we had taken Roy, and maybe Foye, but other than that there is nobody picked after Shelden that I would rather have on our team today.

A lot of you are very jaded by how he performed for a lot of the year and seem to forget that not only was he a rookie he was also playing for a coach who isn't that great of a coach, especially at developing young talent. In addition to that Shelden had that shoulder injury that he played through almost the entire season with. Once he got his mobility in his shoulder back he had some very encouraging games.

This guy is a double/double machine, tough as nails, and he has a high basketball IQ. Before we agree to just write him off for whatever aging veteran we are offered for him or as a throw in as part of a trade we need to think long and hard about it. Remember how the Bulls traded Elton Brand for a high lottery pick (which was either Curry or Chandler) and Brand went on to be perhaps the best PF in the game since then with the Clippers? Let's not make the same mistake and ship Shelden Williams out prematurely. He deserves at least 1 healthy, non-rookie, season with our team to prove what type of player he can be.

Take a look at his stats over the final 8 games when he was healthy. I realize this is only a small sample, teams were tanking, etc. but it still tells the story that this guy can play in this league at a high level.

Date	Opponent	Result	MIN	FGM-A	3PM-A	FTM-A	OFF	DEF	REB	AST	STL	BLK	TO	PF	PTS
Apr 17	vs. IND	W 118-102	41	9-13	0-0	3-5	2	8	10	2	2	2	0	4	21
Apr 16	@ MIL	L 96-102	41	6-9	0-0	4-4	7	10	17	3	1	1	0	3	16
Apr 14	@ CLE	L 76-110	37	6-13	0-0	1-2	3	8	11	1	3	1	2	4	13
Apr 13	vs. WAS	L 85-98	36	6-7	0-0	2-5	3	7	10	0	2	3	4	3	14
Apr 10	vs. BOS	W 104-96	26	5-7	0-0	4-5	2	6	8	0	1	1	5	3	14
Apr 8	@ PHI	L 104-109	29	1-3	0-0	1-4	1	7	8	0	2	0	2	5	3
Apr 6	vs. MIL	W 115-102	28	4-8	0-0	4-6	6	10	16	2	3	0	3	4	12
Apr 4	@ NJN	L 86-101	31	3-8	0-0	3-4	5	9	14	2	2	0	2	3	9

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-No postup game

-No jumpshot

-Doesn't appear to the be shotblocker he was in college

-Fouls too much due to his lack of ability in the defensive end. C'mon, the guy got whipped by Luke Walton of all people.

He had some paded stats when the team had no scorers and was losing games. Doesn't mean anything.

[BusBoyIsBack]

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-No postup game

-No jumpshot

-Doesn't appear to the be shotblocker he was in college

-Fouls too much due to his lack of ability in the defensive end. C'mon, the guy got whipped by Luke Walton of all people.

He had some paded stats when the team had no scorers and was losing games. Doesn't mean anything.

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No postup game?

Shelden Williams has a plethora of moves including up and under moves. Plenty more post game than anyone on this team.

I don't think a jumpshot is required for a big man, but Shelden still showed that he had a 15 footer this year.

You don't have to be a shotblocker to be a Center. Really when I think about it, Shot blocking is overrated. I mean the great ones block what 2-4 shots per game? So does that mean they only stop 2-4 baskets per game? If you can contest 15-20 shots, that is far more important than blocking a couple of shots.

[gutz]

You obviously never watched Shelden in college or even this year on the Hawks to say he has no post up game or jumpshot. He actually has nice low post moves but of course never got to show them because he never got the ball or any minutes to play really. When he did get the minutes he was putting up double doubles just about every game even earlier in the year. He also has a nice 15ft jumpshot and is an excellent FT shooter as well.

[troubleman]

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lol I like certain aspects of Yi's game, based on the limited footage I have seen

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Exactly.

I could make a highlight take of Royal Ivey that would make him look like an All-Star. That doesn't make him one.

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Yeah, unless you are focusing on other aspects of his game that not even the greatest highlight reel can hide. Sorry, I've been watching and playing basketball for too long for "wow" plays to move me.

[Diesel]

We have 2 draft picks.

While there are many folks who are on the Conley/BPA train, I can't get a ticket on that train until I know everything about Yi, have determined that there's not a trade worthy of 3, and am sure that we cannot get Law or Critt at 11.

My point is that I just don't think Conley Jr. will be that good on this level. He's the hypemachine newest product. He's more Brevin Knight than John Stockton.

[exodus]

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Yeah, unless you are focusing on other aspects of his game that not even the greatest highlight reel can hide.

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You said you are basing your opinions on highlight clips and now you are discrediting highlight clips? ok

I can easily make a clip of Ivey that doesn't show any of his weaknesses. He has made enough great shots, passes and defensive plays to look very good in a 2 minute clip.

[Yeti]

I really wonder how good Shelden, Marvin, Smoove, and Chill could be if they were properly coached. They might all be good players for another team.

[troubleman]

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You said you are basing your opinions on highlight clips and now you are discrediting highlight clips? ok

I can easily make a clip of Ivey that doesn't show any of his weaknesses. He has made enough great shots, passes and defensive plays to look very good in a 2 minute clip.

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I'm not discrediting hightlight clips, I'm saying I look at more than just the highlights. There are lots of things you can look at that will give you an "idea" of what kind of weaknesses and strengths a guy may have.

[troubleman]

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I really wonder how good Shelden, Marvin, Smoove, and Chill could be if they were properly coached. They might all be good players for another team.

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I'm not a big fan of Woodson, but it is not his fault that he was given a team that has an unathletic/undersized center, undersized/weaker power forward, and a trio of backup point guards. Throw in a 6th man who can't create his own shot, and an undersized/unathletic big man on the bench. Even the best coach in the world would have a hard time with that combination over an 82 game season.

[exodus]

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You said you are basing your opinions on highlight clips and now you are discrediting highlight clips? ok

I can easily make a clip of Ivey that doesn't show any of his weaknesses. He has made enough great shots, passes and defensive plays to look very good in a 2 minute clip.

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I'm not discrediting hightlight clips, I'm saying I look at more than just the highlights. There are lots of things you can look at that will give you an "idea" of what kind of weaknesses and strengths a guy may have.

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And what are those "things" that make you think Yi will be much better at the 4 than Josh Smith.

And lets not forget if we draft Yi that will be the 3rd year in a row we have drafted a player in the top 5 to compete with Smith for minutes.

[troubleman]

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You said you are basing your opinions on highlight clips and now you are discrediting highlight clips? ok

I can easily make a clip of Ivey that doesn't show any of his weaknesses. He has made enough great shots, passes and defensive plays to look very good in a 2 minute clip.

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I'm not discrediting hightlight clips, I'm saying I look at more than just the highlights. There are lots of things you can look at that will give you an "idea" of what kind of weaknesses and strengths a guy may have.

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And what are those "things" that make you think Yi will be much better at the 4 than Josh Smith.

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I need to post them from home, since I can't access YouTube from work. Don't hold your breath waiting on my response, since this is Memorial Day Weekend, which also doubles as my birthday celebration weekend.

[exodus]

I am reposting this since you probably didn't see my edit.

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And lets not forget if we draft Yi that will be the 3rd year in a row we have drafted a player in the top 5 to compete with Smith for minutes.

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[Plainview1981]

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-No postup game

-No jumpshot

-Doesn't appear to the be shotblocker he was in college

-Fouls too much due to his lack of ability in the defensive end. C'mon, the guy got whipped by Luke Walton of all people.

He had some paded stats when the team had no scorers and was losing games. Doesn't mean anything.

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No postup game?

Shelden Williams has a plethora of moves including up and under moves. Plenty more post game than anyone on this team.

I don't think a jumpshot is required for a big man, but Shelden still showed that he had a 15 footer this year.

You don't have to be a shotblocker to be a Center. Really when I think about it, Shot blocking is overrated. I mean the great ones block what 2-4 shots per game? So does that mean they only stop 2-4 baskets per game? If you can contest 15-20 shots, that is far more important than blocking a couple of shots.

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If he had all these good postup moves and a decent jumpshot he wouldn't be averaging 4PPG. There has been little proof that he can be a big impact player in the post.

Yes, shotblocking is overrated, but he can't seem to hold up in the post any other way. Look in that table Dolfan posted... In all of those games he had 3 or more fouls. That's also a pretty good sign he can't hold his position on the defensive end.

[gutz]

What are you talking about? Every big man in the NBA has at least 3 or more fouls EVERY single game. That doesn't mean or say he can't hold his position on defense. I guess no big man in the NBA can hold his position if your going to use that comparison. Terrible!

[troubleman]

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I am reposting this since you probably didn't see my edit.

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And lets not forget if we draft Yi that will be the 3rd year in a row we have drafted a player in the top 5 to compete with Smith for minutes.

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That goes back to my point about Billy Knight. His drafts over the last two seasons, especially the Marvin Williams pick, have set this team back. Unfortunately, the Hawks cannot afford to allow those "mistakes" to force them to go against taking the better prospect out of Conley, Yi, or whoever.

I must stress this, because if you say something about Marvin you are automatically this Marvin hater. I believe Marvin is going to be a good NBA Player, but I truly doubt his impact on a team will be bigger than Paul or Deron. I was never convinced Marvin had the biggest upside in the draft, because the 2 and the 3 are the easiest positions to fill on a basketball team. Outside of Josh Smith, I have not agreed with a single 1st round pick Billy Knight has made as the Hawks GM.

[Plainview1981]

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What are you talking about? Every big man in the NBA has at least 3 or more fouls EVERY single game. That doesn't mean or say he can't hold his position on defense. I guess no big man in the NBA can hold his position if your going to use that comparison. Terrible!

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If you doubled his minutes from last year he would have averaged FIVE fouls per game. That means he is in foul trouble every game pretty much.

Duncan: 2.5 Fouls per 34 minutes

Garnett: 2.4 fouls per 39 minutes

Jermaine O'Neal:3.4 fouls per 36 minutes

Elton brand:3.0 fouls per 38 minutes

When you compair SW's minutes with those guys he averages 5 fouls per game.

[TheDude]

I will definitely say that Shelden Williams has not gotten a fair shake by Hawks fans. With all the things stacked up against him to make an impact his rookie year, how can you not spare judgement until you see more of him?

Does he not remind folks of Carlos Boozer (and before you jump in Walter, yes I know Carlos was drafted much later, but i'm talking talent)? Does noone here think he has that type of potential? And he doesnt have to start to get good minutes on this team.

I will say this. Unless we make a trade for a big name veteran, whoever we draft will not come in and get 30+ minutes a game and be the ones to take us to the playoffs next year (unless something crazy happens and they just dominate from day 1). If we make the playoffs it will be because folks like Shelden and Marvin improved over the offseason and stayed healthy. So if any of you fully expect to make the playoffs next year, then you're basically agreeing that these folks will get better and help take us to the playoffs.

[BusBoyIsBack]

All I know is that in college Shelden was better than Boozer on O, Better than Brand on D.

The fact that people are calling him a bust in a season where he had a bum shoulder all year long which is a huge injury to someone who's game is predicated off of contact, and where he had to deal with a terrible PG situation, I'd say it's a little ridiculous to call him a bust.

Shelden showed several flashes of what he's capable of like when he dropped 20 points against the Pistons or when he shined vs Houston and Utah.

If he gets healthy and gains more confidence he will more than justify that pick.

Heck all this talk about getting a 5, maybe Shelden can hold down the 5 spot.

He may be 6'8 but he has the mentality and physicality of a 7 footer. That is more important than the height itself. Just ask Shawn Bradley.