Vick one of the "heavyweights" in dog fighting

[Admin]

He arrived at the hotel room, where our cameras were set up, in a T-shirt and jeans. "I'm nervous," he said, surveying our lights and camera equipment. "I've never done anything like this before."

Our confidential source says he's been involved in dog fighting for over 30 years. He's trained and fought -- by his estimation -- around 2,000 pit bulls & and was poised to tell "Outside the Lines" about the time in 2000 when his dog squared off against a dog owned by someone he referred to as one of the "heavyweights" of the dog fighting world: Atlanta Falcons quarterback Michael Vick.

"He's a pit bull fighter," the source says of Vick. "He's one of the ones that they call 'the big boys:' that's who bets a large dollar. And they have the money to bet large money. As I'm talking about large money -- $30,000 to $40,000 -- even higher. He's one of the heavyweights."

On April 25, authorities raided a house in Surry County, Va., owned by Vick and reportedly found -- among other things -- 66 dogs (most of which were pit bulls), a dog-fighting pit, blood stained carpets and equipment commonly associated with dog fighting. Vick was not at the scene and denied knowledge of dog fighting at the property. To this point, no charges have been filed against him. But questions about Vick and his possible connection to dog fighting linger.

This source -- who required anonymity as a condition of our interview -- has helped law enforcement by supplying information on dog fights that has led to dozens of felony arrests.

"I've fought dogs, I pitted them, I bred them and I've done everything with them," says the source of his three decades in dog fighting. He then went on to describe the scene from that night seven years ago, as he took his 42-pound dog into the pit (the area where dogs fight) to face off against Vick's dog. He says Vick did not get into the pit, but had a member of his entourage handle his dog, while Vick placed bets with the 20 or so people in attendance.

Michael Vick's role in dogfighting's hidden society and a look at why some athletes participate in the brutal and illegal activity are examined Monday at 3:30 a.m. ET on OTL.

"Then he started, you know, waving money," the source says. "He was betting with everybody ... He said he got $5,000. He said he's betting on his animal."

While the source says he doesn't know how much Vick bet that night, he does recall the matches' outcome: Vicks' dog lost. He says Vick is known in the dog fighting community as "the man that comes with all the money" and his reputation is "[that] he brings a good dog and he's going to bet and he's going bring a nice sum of cash."

ESPN contacted Vick's agent, Joel Segal, who did not respond to the source's allegations.

In the U.S., dog fighting is considered a felony in every state except Wyoming and Idaho. Despite that fact, according to the Humane Society, it's estimated that somewhere between 20,000 to 40,000 people in this country take part in this multi-billion dollar industry.

"I believe that dog fighting is on the upswing," says John Goodwin, the deputy manager of the Animal Cruelty Campaign for the Humane Society. "And I believe that certain elements of the pop culture have glamorized dog fighting and glamorized big, tough pit bulls."

American pit bull terriers account for 99 percent of the species involved in dog fighting, and a pit bull puppy can cost as much as $5000. An average dog fight carries a $10,000 purse.

So why would a professional athlete risk his reputation -- and a lifetime of financial security -- to do this? "For the thrill of it," says a member of the Professional Football Hall of Fame, who asked not to be identified. "It's like gambling, no different than when Michael Jordan drops $100,000 on a hole of golf."

There's no official data on just how many professional athletes may be associated with dog fighting today. Before the current investigation against Vick, in the last couple of years, only two professional athletes stand out as having been publicly linked to allegations of dog fighting: former NBA forward Qyntel Woods (who faced possible charges of dog fighting before pleading guilty to animal abuse in 2005) and former NFL running back LeShon Johnson, who pled guilty to three charges related to dog fighting, also, in 2005. Johnson is currently serving a five year deferred sentence. But those players only scratch the surface of what Goodwin calls a 'subculture' of dog fighting among professional athletes.

Everybody in the dog world is worried about Michael Vick talking. Michael Vick is making large money, he's making millions, OK? And if he has to tell on some people [to avoid prison time], I think he would tell … I don't put nothing past him.

"You know, it's very interesting that we have got a whole roster of names of professional athletes that we know are involved in dog fighting," Goodwin says. "Surely, not every single one has come to light; I bet not even 10 percent have come to light."

If that's true, one reason may have to do with the "Code of Silence" among dog fighters. The source says many matches take place on rural farms, with 'lookouts' stationed in the woods and down surrounding roads, up to eight miles away. He adds that sometimes, local sheriffs are paid off to look the other way -- that is, when they're not participating in the dog fights themselves. But with up to two hundred people in attendance at any given match, how is it possible that a high-profile athlete can attend dog fights and never have word get out to the general public?

"Dog fighting is a very private thing," answers the source, who says that Vick was still involved in dog fighting as recently as last year. "It's all Pit Bull Men. It's close knit: you got your little boys, then you got your heavyweight boys. It's a completely different class ... And now [that] it's all over the media, and you have to keep it more private."

The source says he consented to our interview to change people's perceptions about dog fighting, because they have "the wrong idea" about it and should see "just one" match for themselves before judging it. "They'll let this other thing go what is it called? UFC [ultimate Fighting Championship]?" he asked. "That is every bit as bad -- you know, that's terrible. But then you have thousands of people that cheer, rah, rah, and they really love that. You see guys get their heads busted, you know, and they get their arms messed up, their legs twisted almost off. But then they fuss over this here, is wrong."

When asked what he thinks people's reactions will be when they learn of his account of Vick's involvement in dog fighting, the source was nonplussed.

"They shouldn't be really upset, OK?" he said. "Because it's only just an animal. It's just a dog that is raised up. He's put out there, you know, and he's chained up, OK. And the time he gets a certain age, this dog is going to want to fight. It is bred in him, OK? &He knows what he is and he's going to fight. Just take him off the leash, let him go."

"Dog fighting is illegal for a reason," says Goodwin. "It's a severe form of cruelty."

"The gameness that the dog fighters strive for -- and 'gameness' is the willingness to continue fighting, even in the face of extreme pain, even in the face of death -- is something that's bred into the dogs," Goodwin says. "There are pit bulls that have been bred away from the fighting lines that are perfectly socialized but the game bred dogs -- bred for fighting -- just have it bred in them, to want to kill any dog in front of them."

On Friday, Surry County Commonwealth Attorney Gerald Poindexter told The Associated Press that the investigation against Vick is "moving forward." When contacted by ESPN and asked for a response to the source's contention of Vick's involvment in dog fighting, Falcons spokesman Reggie Roberts responded via e-mail, "Michael was drafted by the Falcons in 2001. The allegations regarding him are still under investigation, and until we have facts related to the investigation, we are unable to respond further."

The NFL released this statement: "Dog fighting is cruel, degrading, and illegal. We support a thorough investigation into any allegations of this type of activity. Any NFL employee proved to be involved in this type of activity will be subject to prompt and significant discipline under our personal conduct policy."

While the NFL continues to monitor the Vick investigation, there's another group closely monitoring it as well … but for a different reason.

"Everybody in the dog world is worried about Michael Vick talking," the source added, shortly before leaving our interview room and heading back to work. "Michael Vick is making large money, he's making millions, OK? And if he has to tell on some people [to avoid prison time], I think he would tell … I don't put nothing past him."

[troubleman]

Great, another unidentified source. Let me make this perfectly clear for you all, if Vick is convicted then f*ck him, and I'll root for the next Atlanta Falcon qb. If he lines up behind the center in September, then that's good too. Unlike the Vick haters around the country, I believe in innocent until proven guilty.

[gsuteke]

atleast he brings a good dog to the fight

[BornandDieHawks]

I watched this guy on Outside the Lines this morning and a couple of things came to mind during his interview.

1) He said his fought fought one of Vick's dogs in 2000 and Vick bet 5,000. I don't think he realized Vick was drafted in 2001 and 5k is a lot to bet as a college senior. He was talking like in 2000, Vick was already a big star making a lot of money.

2) If he is such a great informant and had all this knowledge of Vick, why did we have to wait until a fail drug bust on Vick's property to hear about this? I mean if Vick is such a heavyweight, then this little task force with this informant would have certainly brought down a heavyweight with Vick's status.

I do not have any knowledge of Vick alleged dogfighting and if he is charged then so be it and send him through the legal system.

[TroyMcClure]

Why don't you directly respond to our allegations? One by one, preferrably. They are real and verifiable. You are being oblivios to reality. Answer them or shut up. You aren't saying anything. You know you can't answer them.

[D.R.P.]

This supposed source stuff has me LOL. Supposedly Vick was a heavyweight in dogfighting when he was still at Virginia Tech, seeing as how Vick wasn’t drafted until 2001, but according to the source the dogfighting took place in 2000. Like Vick had 30,000 dollars at the time to throw around on dog fights. The haters are to dumbfounded with hate that they can’t even put things together to see that Vick wasn’t even drafted until 2001. Its funny also how the media (ESPN, AJC) dosen’t even mention this, I guess the witch hunt continues.

[TroyMcClure]

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Great, another unidentified source. Let me make this perfectly clear for you all, if Vick is convicted then f*ck him, and I'll root for the next Atlanta Falcon qb. If he lines up behind the center in September, then that's good too. Unlike the Vick haters around the country, I believe in innocent until proven guilty.

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Go root for him. You kind of disgust me with your tacit support of this activity.

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Unlike the Vick haters around the country, I believe in innocent until proven guilty.

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Unlike the Vick nut suckers, I believe that if a man is involved in the culture, owns the house where 60+ dogs are found, is being investigated by the FBI, and has failed to say he is appalled at dogfighting or that he is innocent of any allegations against him, is not worthy of being the QB for our team.

I don't care if we went 15 - 1. We will never respect him. I don't root for people that I can't respect. If you do, I hope you don't have children.

Please explain how Vick could not have any knowledge of this situation.

Even if somehow Vick is innocent, I still don't want him as a player for the Falcons. His decision making skills are terrible.

He bought a million dollar house and never goes there? It is insulting to me and everyone on this board to suggest that. But that is exactly what you and Hawkfanatic are doing.

What is so hard? He raises the dogs. 66 dogs will be killed from his house. Dog fighting evidence has been found at the residence.

He just happens to raise the kinds of dogs found to have been fighting in a mansion he owns in his hometown, where I assume he had no other residences. And you say to wait for more information. What a joke?

Grow up. He did it. This is no about innocent until proven guilty, it's about the murder of dogs and being associated with it. Culturally or actively.

You guys are pathetic.

[TroyMcClure]

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This supposed source stuff has me LOL. Supposedly Vick was a heavyweight in dogfighting when he was still at Virginia Tech, seeing as how Vick wasn’t drafted until 2001, but according to the source the dogfighting took place in 2000. Like Vick had 30,000 dollars at the time to throw around on dog fights. The haters are to dumbfounded with hate that they can’t even put things together to see that Vick wasn’t even drafted until 2001. Its funny also how the media (ESPN, AJC) dosen’t even mention this, I guess the witch hunt continues.

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I'm a Bama fan. If you don't think high profile recruits aren't getting paid by boosters, agents, etc. you are being very naive. Vick knew he was going to the pros. He could have had a line of credit, so to speak. Who knows? I could care less of the informant. There is a strong case without the informant. People have been convicted with far less physical evidence. Vick's only hope is that no one can place him at the residence while a fight was taking place. He will shove whatever relatives lived there, under the bus to avoid jail time.

[D.R.P.]

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I believe that if a man is involved in the culture, owns the house where 60+ dogs are found, is being investigated by the FBI, and has failed to say he is appalled at dogfighting or that he is innocent of any allegations against him, is not worthy of being the QB for our team.

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Using your logic Patrick Kerney should have known that a rape was tacking place downstairs in his house, or that a landlord should know if a tenant is selling drugs on a property that is being rented. Seeing as how Michael Vick lives in the Atlanta area yet using your hate blinded logic he automatically knows what goes on at a property he’s letting his cousin use in Virginia. When did Michael Vick become God being as how in the mind of the haters he can seemingly be in two locations at a one time or that he’s omniscient. Since Vick lives in Atlanta and not in VA, what would the difference be if the house was in his cousin’s name. The truth of the matter is the guy bought his cousin a house, but keeps it in his name (just like the house he bought for his mother) most likely since they can’t afford all the property taxes and bills that come along with owning a house that expensive; its common practice for the rich and famous to do that for family members.

[D.R.P.]

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If you don't think high profile recruits aren't getting paid by boosters, agents, etc. you are being very naive.

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Yeah like he would be spending thousands of dollars on dogfighting. Sounds like the same thing that the haters said when the truth came out that there wasn't any marijuana residue in the water bottle; coming up with their own conspiracy theories instead of accepting the truth. Until there's real evidence not hearsay that Vick was involved in dog fighting he is innocent until proven guilty. If he’s proven guilty then let the hounds come after him.

[D.R.P.]

Here's a picture of the informant.

[BornandDieHawks]

LoL...

[BornandDieHawks]

LoL...

[ATLBob]

Look, it's seems fairly obvious to me that Vick was involved, at least to some extent, in dogfights. Like one poster said already, however, if exonerated, or even if punished, I'll still root for Falcons because they're my team, and I'll still root for Vick, because he's our QB.

Suggestions keep surfacing that there exists a rather large dogfighting subculture in the NFL. I, for one, am not terribly surprised. To think that football players, whose entire lives center around their ability to excel competetively in an extemely violent sport, filled with life-shortening collisions, wouldn't harbor a certain attraction to other forms of violent competition, seems naive.

Societies, ours and others, are riddled with contradicting attitudes toward controlled violence. There are plenty of examples that far exceed dogfighting. Bull fighting comes to mind immediately. Those fighters are people, highly skilled top-of-the-food-chain humans, and the bulls have almost no chance. Would we have an outcry if Vick was sponsoring matadors. In our own country, children can view UFC MMA, football, boxing, and more with ease. Yet watching two dogs, from a breed humans have spent centuries breeding for fighting attributes, perform the action that we as humans bred them for, should give me enough reason to condemn a man? Please, stop wasting my time.

Besides, I believe in giving people an oppurtunity to atone for their actions. Let me be very clear: I have no problem with dogfighting being illegal. But come on, seriously, dogs are still dogs. They are not people.

So, to recap: Vick isn't a pederass. He didn't rape, kill, steal, or maim. Unlike Ray Lewis, who we continue to celebrate as a great player, he didn't possibly kill a man. To date he has been accused of:

1. Transmitting an STD via consensual sexual intercourse.

2. Smoking marijuana.

3. Breeding pit bulls, and watching some of them fight, while betting on the outcome.

Now Troy boy may cream his pants, but none of those offenses seem particularly troubling to me, especially taking into account the environment Vick grew up in. I'm not endorsing his actions, but he didn't eactly go to the club and start firing his gun yet. He's an athlete, not a politician (well, actually, I guess they're often pretty sleazy), not a fireman, in short not a hero. He's an athlete, one who grew up in conditions many of us would find exceedingly difficult to even imagine. We're going to continue to celebrate Michael Vick because, when he dazzles us with his speed, his athleticism, and his arm strength, it makes us feel good. Hopefully he will grow into a big-time quarterback. This is still a very real possibility.

I hope anyone reading this recognizes that I am not supporting dogfighting. The fact that this saga has crescendoed to the extent that it has, however, seems pretty ridiculous.

If we, as a nation, as a collection of sports fans, are going to freak out over dogfighting, then I think we have some serious questions to ask ourselves about the nature of some of the other sports entertainment that we not only condone, but fully support.

Oh, and 5 freakin' years for dogfighting in VA? What a joke, and what a sad waste of tax dollars.

[TroyMcClure]

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Look, it's seems fairly obvious to me that Vick was involved, at least to some extent, in dogfights. Like one poster said already, however, if exonerated, or even if punished, I'll still root for Falcons because they're my team, and I'll still root for Vick, because he's our QB.

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Sorry, Bob. Stopped reading after that. I don't root for people like that. Being a fan is not only about the wins and losses of your team. I want to be proud of the team I watch.

[troubleman]

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Go root for him. You kind of disgust me with your tacit support of this activity.

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Hopefully, you will understand when I tell you that I don't give a rat's a** if I disgust you are not. Hopefully you don't give a rat's a** if you disgust me. You're an ip address, a simple name on a messageboard. Who gives a sh*t if we disgust each other.

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Unlike the Vick nut suckers, I believe that if a man is involved in the culture, owns the house where 60+ dogs are found, is being investigated by the FBI, and has failed to say he is appalled at dogfighting or that he is innocent of any allegations against him, is not worthy of being the QB for our team.

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Great, that is one man's opinion. You are entitled to that, and I'm sure Michael Vick will cry in bed at night because you believe he is not worthy to qb the Atlanta Falcons. lol

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I don't care if we went 15 - 1. We will never respect him. I don't root for people that I can't respect. If you do, I hope you don't have children.

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Who is this "we"? Again Mr. IP Address, I don't give a damn what you "hope".

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Please explain how Vick could not have any knowledge of this situation.

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Unlike you, I let the facts play themselves out. I'm not law enforcement, a judge, or a DA. So, I don't give a sh*t enough to explain how he could not have knowledge of the situation.

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Even if somehow Vick is innocent, I still don't want him as a player for the Falcons. His decision making skills are terrible.

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Yeah, this organization is a well oiled machine. When Vick came to the Falcons his decision making turned them into a

horrible organization. Oops, I forgot, we are talking about one of the worst organizations in Pro Football.

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He bought a million dollar house and never goes there? It is insulting to me and everyone on this board to suggest that. But that is exactly what you and Hawkfanatic are doing.

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Actually, I'm not suggesting anything except letting the facts play out. There is a reason why nobody has been charged yet.

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What is so hard? He raises the dogs. 66 dogs will be killed from his house. Dog fighting evidence has been found at the residence.

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What dog fighting evidence? The treadmill? Blood "spatter" on a piece of carpet? GTFOH

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He just happens to raise the kinds of dogs found to have been fighting in a mansion he owns in his hometown, where I assume he had no other residences. And you say to wait for more information. What a joke?

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The joke is, you "assume" he has no other residence in his hometown, but you are not willing to wait for the facts. lol You sir, are a joke. lol

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Grow up. He did it. This is no about innocent until proven guilty, it's about the murder of dogs and being associated with it. Culturally or actively.

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Of course there is no innocent until proven guilty, when you are a Michael Vick hater. lol You hate a man you probably have never met, but we need to grow up? LMAO

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You guys are pathetic.

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Again, we need to grow up? LMAO.

[troubleman]

Mr IP Address said my analogy was stupid, but then turns around and says OJ was innocent. Is he actually comparing a man who was on trial for murder, with a man who has not been charged with anything? Oh Boy!!!!!!!!!

[DJlaysitup]

From what I've read on the most recent MV developments - It looks like there is FAR more to this investigation than an MV witch hunt. The Feds are investigating an entire network here (not just Vick...although he may be heavily involved). The part about transporting animals across state lines for the purpose of fighting and the inclusion of gambling (untaxed) tells me that the Feds are planning on blowing this operation sky high.

(excerpted from an AP article):

"The (Vick) property was used as the "main staging area for housing and training the pit bulls involved in the dog fighting venture," according to the filings.

The documents said the fights usually occurred late at night or in the early morning and would last several hours. The winning dog would win from "100's up to 1,000's of dollars," and participants and spectators also would place bets on the fight.

Fights would end when one dog died or the surrender of the losing dog, which was sometimes put to death by drowning, strangulation, hanging, gun shot, electrocution or some other method, according to the documents.

During a June search of the property, investigators uncovered the graves of seven pit bulls that were killed by members of "Bad Newz Kennels" following sessions to test whether dogs would be good fighters, the documents said.

Members of "Bad Newz Kennels" also sponsored and exhibited fights in other parts of Virginia, North Carolina, South Carolina, Maryland, New Jersey and other states, the filings said."

[BigDirty]

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Fights would end when one dog died or the surrender of the losing dog, which was sometimes put to death by drowning, strangulation, hanging, gun shot, electrocution or some other method, according to the documents.

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Disgusting. I'm a big Vick fan but if he really has something to do with it (I'm not really up to date with the whole situation so I don't know if it was already 100% proven that he was responsible) then I don't want to see him in a falcons uni ever again.

[DJlaysitup]

I don't think Vick could have been one of the main guys in operating a multi-state dog fighting operation. With his NFL career how would he have the time?

On the other hand it would be naive to think a person would be paying for a big house and not know what's going on at home. It wasn't a "rental"...it was for family/friends...and his name was on the kennel operations. If you love dogs and want to breed family pets try Collies.

Anyway, however it turns out I'm not a "get Vick" person. If the law can shut down this type of animal cruelty...that's the main thing. If MV pleads ignorance and walks - that's OK - if he learns a lesson and stops doing it.