KOBE vs. Tmac for MVP

[Diesel]

In reply to:

---

McGrady, the NBA's leading scorer at 31.7 points per game, has scored at least 40 points nine times this season. He has averaged 37.8 points in nine games since the Feb. 19 trade for Drew Gooden and Gordan Giricek.

---

It's amazing. Gooden and Giricek has made Tmac a Monster. Imagine if he had SHAQ in the post for him!

HIll will be traded for anything.

Can you say Hendu/CC?

[Guest]

Kevin Garnett is this years MVP.

[Diesel]

Why?

His numbers are the same as always. His team is where they always are. He has had a good streak lately, but Image will kill his chances. I think Tmac has a very good shot.

However, isn't it funny. This years MVP will probably be some guy who never played College ball? D. Stern is got to be Mad as [censored] about that one. Don't look now, but Shaq might win MVP again. Either Shaq or Duncan.

[Guest]

Because his team his a top 5 team in the west

while Tmac is a 6 or 7th seed in the crappy east.

Even the Warriors have a strong record againest

the east and they might not even crack the playoffs

in the west.

The east is a joke.Indy/NJ/Detroit all suck.Philly is

doing pretty good, but nobody else in the east is

really that good.

NJ lacks talent

Detroit lacks talent

Indy isn't head strong

Philly will probably return to the finals.

Shaq shouldn't MVP.It's KG's turn.

[Traceman]

T Mac is playing very well but his team's record is just not good enough. Duncan already has one. Kobe has a good shot but the Shaq factor will hurt him in some of the voters' minds. That leaves KG. He has carried that team with and without Szcerbiak. MIN has a legitimate shot at the 4 seed and the 3 seed is not out of the question. KG has 54 double doubles in 65 games and will likely end up with close to 70. That is sick! He had another triple double last night. I think he has done more for his team on a consistent basis than any other player this season. Kobe, T Mac and Duncan have all had great seasons but KG is my MVP up until this point in the season.

[Diesel]

If Tmac end off the season averaging 37.8 ppg lack he has since Feb 19 and his team stays on route to 50 wins... Guess what, he will be MVP. KG will sit in the Kidd seat. Over the last 10 games, Tmac's assists have climbed to 7.8 apg while his PPG has rose to 37.8 ppg.

Call it what you want... Gabrielle has done it again. Great trade. And Giricek and Gooden are also making noise. Both shooting over 50%. Both scoring over 17 ppg. Mike who?

[Guest]

The east doesn't deserve to have a MVP trophy.

Orlando will cool off abit, but I it looked like they

were really screwed for a while...The truth is that

Gordon isn't that far off of Miller, but really Orlando

got Gooden for free.Gordon also grabs the same

ammount of rebounds as Mike Miller does and seems

like more of a pure shooter.

It would be nice if Pete done trades to help the hawks

instead of helping everyone else....Deke goes to Philly

and goes to the finals, and Smitty goes to Portland and

they nearly make the finals,and he will help the Bucks

get a big man in the draft...Oh and we must not forget

that he gave Indy and SA both PG's instead of taking

one of them.

[Traceman]

with the exception of scoring. Kobe is better or equal in every other meaningful statistic. And T Mac's average of 37.8 in his last 10 pale in comparison to the over 43 ppg Kobe averaged during his hot streak.

That being said, KG is average 23, 13 & 6 and leads the league in double doubles. That is better by far in my opinion than either Kobe or T Mac.

[Guest]

Jamal Mashburn deserves some consideration.

[chillzatl]

Mcgrady won't beat Kobe or KG for the award. Stats wise, his aren't as good as kobe's and his team will not finish with the wins that the lakers or T-wolves will have. And winning is usually a big factor in the voting. T-mac plays in the east against "cupcake teams" and they have a losing record against the west.

[Diesel]

Here you have all the suspects. Since the trade deadline, Tmac has been playing like he has something to prove. KG also. All of these players have led their teams on Streaks in the last 10. The question is whoose the MVP?

Kobe: 34.7 ppg, 43.8% FG, 34.5% 3pt, 6.0 rpg, 4.7 apg, 2.4 spg, 1.0 bpg, 3.0 topg...

TMAC: 36.4 ppg, 46.9% FG, 36.7% 3Pt, 5.8 rpg, 7.8 apg, 1.7 spg, .8 bpg, 3.1 topg....

Mash: 25.9 ppg, 45.1% FG, 41.5% 3Pt, 6.4 rpg, 7.3 apg, 0.7 spg, 0.3 bpg, 3.7 topg.

KG: 24.8 ppg, 52.6% FG, 0% 3Pt, 14.7 rpg, 6.9 apg, 1.3 spg, 0.8 bpg, 2.9 topg.

AI: 30.8 ppg, 47% FG, 32.3% 3pt, 3.9 rpg, 5.2 apg, 2.8 spg, 0.1 bpg, 3.1 topg.

CWebb: 23.1 ppg, 46.6% FG, 100% 3Pt, 11.4 rpg, 5.6 apg, 1.2 spg, 1.0 bpg, 3.4 topg.

From this, the voting goes this way:

1. KG. Those [censored] rebound numbers are amazing at any position. I peaked and over the same time, Ben Wallace is only getting 14.3. Plus KG passes well and shoots a high percentage.

2. Tmac. He has very good Assists. He has good rebounds. He's showing the all around game.

3. Kobe. Good defense puts him here barely.

4. Mash. He needs to work on defense. I remember a couple of years ago, I said that Mash was one of the better all around players.. even better than VInce. I got a lot of criticism.. However, look now.

5. AI. I know I shouldn't expect him to rebound, but at least he should pass more.

6. CWebb. Surprisingly low compared to the others.

How the MVP race will turn out....

1. Shaq.

2. Duncan.

3. Webber.

I really don't think D. Stern is ready to allow all the kids who didn't go to college at all to get recognition. It sends the message.... It's alright to bypass college. BUT... Lebron is coming.

[Diesel]

Actually, the wins will pile up. He has good help now. Giricek and Gooden will help Orlando finish much better than .500. As far the Lakers, their record is not so good either. They won't get 50 wins. Also, the voters will say about Kobe... Without Shaq, he does nothing to elevate his team. However, Tmac does it all the time. The true winner should be KG. He doesn't score as much as Tmac, but those rebounds are insane. And those Double doubles are... The truth. His defense is slipping though?

[Traceman]

He has only started to play up to his level recently. I think he is still the best player in the NBA without question when healthy but he hasn't been healthy long enough this season. I won't be surprised if Shaq doesn't finish in the top 5 in the voting.

As for the last 10 games, that's all well and good the award is based on the entire season and I think Kobe is still ahead of T Mac while KG is the #1 choice.

[cyman3]

but i think the real winner (like KIDD last year) should be KEVIN GARNETT.

IMO, Wolves are just like the NUGGETS w/o Garnett.

Garnett is like MICHAEL VICK... w/o VICK, the falcons would be screwed as well.

[chillzatl]

T-mac is great, Kobe is great. It's a wash. Saying without shaq kobe does nothing is ignorance. He solidified his MVP bid for 10 games when shaq was out and he scored 40+ almost every game. His team also went what, 9-1 in that stretch? Not to mention nabbing quite a few boards and assists along the way.

T-mac does it every night, Kobe could do it every night. I mean who cares really? Are they both not fun to watch? Saying that Kobe isn't as good as T-mac simply because he has shaq there is ignorant, you know it and I know it. You just like to use that as your arguement fuel.

I think they are both great personally. But I would take Kobe over T-mac for one reason and one reason alone. Kobe is a winner. He's been there and knows what it takes to win. In big games when the refs have made shaq a non-factor, Kobe has stepped up and delivered. T-mac has yet to deliver anything but great regular season stats.

[cyman3]

i agree...

its like apples and oranges.

Kobe would do the same in TMACS shoes and TMAC would do the same in KOBEs shoes... plain and simple.

I think they are the same, maybe 1 is better by a .0000000001 margin or so. get my drift?

but personally, i think KOBEs game. I really think TMAC is the better offensive player by a small margin, but KOBE is the better defensive player. I'd take Kobe over Tmac if i was starting a franchise, but i'd be happy with TMAC as well..

[Diesel]

Mere Speculation. You may want to believe that Kobe would do what Tmac does if he was in Tmac's shoes, however, those first fifteen or so games in the season shows that Kobe couldn't. They won like 2 or 3 out of 15? You know why. Kobe is selfish and Kobe couldn't be the man. You put to those 8 games without Shaq in the middle of the season. Let me remind you:

2 were against the Nuggets.

2 were against the Knicks.

1 was against Spurs

1 was against Utah

1 was against Houston

Tell me... How do you applaud Kobe for that. Where is the competition. The only teams worth mention on that list is Utah and San Antonio. They lost to NY and San Antonio which means that their only real victory came against the Jazz. The same group of Old men that we BLEW OUT earlier this season.

However, Tmac has done it all season with NO help. Actually for the last 3 seasons with no help. The trade has got him some help. If they get Hill to buy out, they will have money to go after Khandi. However, you can't just speculate that Kobe can carry any team. In fact, without Shaq this year the Lakers are 10-12 (.454). Overall, they are 35-27. That means that with Shaq they are 25-15 (.625).

[chillzatl]

Ok, here's one for your pipe. Without Shaq, Kobe still managed to keep the team at a record equal to what the magic had done all season (until the last two weeks). Remember that is also playing in the western conference against tougher teams. Care to explain that one away for me?

I can also say that T-mac has a team that is built to take advantage of what he does. Kobe doesn't have that. Considering that KOBE AVERAGES MORE ASSISTS THAN TMAC. Your claims that he's selfish are nothing but pathetic hater-aid. But I suppose in this case, those are "simple assists" right? Or maybe we can talk about the higher rebounding average, or steals, or mpg or or...

Your arguement that T-mac is the better player just doesn't hold water. Face it, you lose. I'm not even saying that Kobe is better. They are equally great players. Though I would take him over T-mac for my team Because he plays better, more consistant defense (something YOU used to try and say T-mac was superior at also, foot in mouth).

THere are no stats that you can present that can't be countered. give it up already. Come up with something interesting to talk about please.

[cyman3]

yo DIESEL...

first off, those 15 games or so was in the beginning of the season. No team plays as well as its capable of in the first few games. In fact, the lakers are just NOW in that playoff form (March). It takes time to go back into playing form.

my second point, are u really going to take 15 games or so from 1 season to prove your point? I believe Kobe was drafted 8th or so in the draft. Many teams worked him out for several days and those that had the chance, im sure they're regretting it.

third point, East vs West. Sure the Lakers lost... but they have harder competition. I mean, HOUSTON/PHEONIX/GOLDEN STATE are currently fighting for that last 8th spot when all 3 of them would be a lock for the playoffs in the EAST.

if u want to pick McGrady over Kobe just because of Kobes "selffishness" than go ahead... but dont confuse talent with personel when u choose between the 2 players.

Btw, all great players are SELFISH... they have to be! in order to win, u have to be willing to have that "I REFUSE TO LOSE" attitude.

if u were KOBE and had Fox, Fisher, etc as starters for teammates... would u be more "unselfish?"

if u look at the stats, its similar... too similar.

Ur arguement is not valid.

I mean, c'mon... if the system works, keep doing it! u act as if Kobe is shooting poorly and shooting too much (in that case, he is selfish).

Suppose u had this great center shooting 75% for the season. U would be STUPID not to tell the dude to stop shooting. I mean, if hes hitting his shots... do u really want him to stop shooting?

look at kobes shooting percentage and his teammates.

i have a good feeling that his percentage is higher than his teammates.

[cyman3]

when it comes down to it. i think all allstars on playoff teams would rather have the WIN/CHAMPIONSHIP RING than a loss with the statline of 40 points, 7 rebounds, 5 assist

*with the exceptions of guys in their last year of contracts... they might have different intentions...