KOBE vs. Tmac for MVP

[Diesel]

They were Blown out by the Bulls Last night.

HAHA!

[Diesel]

In reply to:

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Ok, here's one for your pipe. Without Shaq, Kobe still managed to keep the team at a record equal to what the magic had done all season (until the last two weeks). Remember that is also playing in the western conference against tougher teams. Care to explain that one away for me?

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Tougher teams??? Don't make me laugh...

Without Shaq.

San Antonio - L

Portland -L

Clipps- W

Portland -W

Cleveland - L......Yes Cleveland.

Boston - L

Washington -L

Atlanta -L

GS -W

Houston -L

Dallas -L

San Antonio -L

Chicago -W

NY -W

Denver =W

Denver =W

NY =L

San Antonio =L

Utah =W

Houston = W

9-11

Out of those 11 loses, 4 were to tough teams... SA and Dallas.

I'll even say 5... Portland.

However, They lose to Us, Cleveland and Washington and their win against GS was overtime. That's not impressive at all.

So much for all these tough teams they loss to.

[chillzatl]

I was merely stating the obvious for you. They play in the western coference. Where the better teams in the league play.

You combine that with the fact that they managed to be just under .500 for those games (where orlando has been all season) and your "kobe sucks" babble seems even less coherant than usual.

[Diesel]

They may play a tough Western conference Schedule... However, in that particular stretch... They lost to Cleveland, Atlanta, Washington, and had a tough game against GS.

Also, the only playoff teams that they have played without Shaq were San Antonio, Boston, Dallas, Utah, and Portland. Their record against those teams were 2-6 There are several loses to NON playoff teams that the Lakers took in that stretch.

[chillzatl]

compare orlandos records to those teams, in matching home/road situations. See where there records stand then.

If you want to use records as some sort of barometer to measure who is better, make it match. If you can't, get as close as possible (use a home game if they haven't played a team on the road).

My point is that you aren't going to find much difference in their records in any given situation, other than Shaq being there. Without Shaq, the Lakers and Magic match up very well and are very similarly built teams. It's not going to settle anything.

[Diesel]

Well, if you had forgotten, we were talking about ability to carry a team. Kobe hasn't shown it. Maybe for minutes but minus Shaq, Kobe is not better, not close to Tmac.

[Guest]

He also hasn't really been asked to, not for extended periods of time, and not in the "crunch time" of late season playoff pushes and positioning...but that in no way means that he isn't capable of it.

The Magic are TMac, slightly less so now post trade, but nevertheless, the team depends on him and he has to perform. That hasn't been consistently asked of Kobe so I'm not sure how you can say that he isn't capable of it...

out of curiosity, how did the Magic do at the beginning of TMac's first season there? they started 5-11 that year....so I guess TMac had some adjustments in learning how to "carry a team."

[mdc5010]

I can't believe you guys think that either guy should have a shot at MVP. You are correct in that they are arguably at the top in the NBA in ability and talent. Yet, they don't dominate in the win column. Kobe needs Shaq to win consistently. Tmac is on a .500 team in the east.

For MVP consideration, look at leadership and the ability to will your team to victories by doing the dirty work. Look at guys like Duncan and KG, whose supporting casts are worse than what Kobe has, and equal to what Tmac has. What KG has done this year is amazing. He has put his team on his back and is carrying them. Duncan as usual is as consistent as consistent gets. You have to really understand the game to appreciate him. Sure, he's dull and we live in a world of flash.

Trade either one of them straight up for Tmac or Kobe and their teams will have better records.

[Diesel]

It's no doubt that if you trade Duncan or KG to the Lakers for Kobe that the Lakers would have the most dominant team in History.

However, until the past trade, Tmac has had absolutely nothing around him. Miller is a streaky shooter. Tmac has been PG, SG, PF, and SF for all three seasons. He has carried and has made those around him better.

All that said, I agree with you that nobody has done a better job than KG this season. Even though he doesn't score more than 24 a game.

All of it is moot. Neither KG, Kobe, or Tmac will be MVP. Duncan will be. It's D. Stern's fix. He will fix it so that a college grad beats out all of the HSer. With Labron James on the way, it's gonna be hard keeping the HSer out. If you compound that with the fact that three HSer finish 1,2, 3 in the MVP race... It will be impossible.

I look for TD, Shaq, KG as your 1, 2, 3.... Politics.

[Guest]

Back off the conspiracy theory there D and realize that Duncan won't get it this year largely do to his getting it last year...

[Diesel]

Well,

Kidd can't get the repay because he has stunk and his TOs lead the league.

Duncan will be eligible because he is the model of consistency. His Spurs are winning and he graduated from College.

[cyman3]

Diesel, ill keep ur conspiracy on my mind....

lets see what happens...