Don't let the record fool you...

[Diesel]

We are 8-3 without Grob...

Here are the games.

Orlando

@Washington

Cleveland

NJ

Memphis

Washington

@ Detroit Loss 102-99

Houston

N.O.

@Milwaukee Loss 97-88

@Boston Loss 86-66.

Look at them good. Mostly Sub .500 teams. All of the wins but one came at Home. Most of the losses but 1 was on the road. However, we are a good Home team. Like Chicago. We can win at Home against Anyone. The Spurs, the Kings have both lossed on our homecourt and those were games that Big Dog did play in.

However, The true test is on the road. We have only one win on the road without Big Dog. To a Poor Home team Washington that had just been ousted from the playoffs the night before. They had nothing to play for and they are a team in the midst of a huge meltdown.

And you talk about these games as if we had beaten the Lakers and the Kings without Big Dog.

It's just home games against Easy teams.

[Guest]

But you love to let Robinsons stat's fool you.He averages

20/6 blah blah blah who really cares?They're are 17/7

guys that play better defense and have more game than

Robinson.I'll take a 17/7 guy that can play defense and

score in several ways over a jump shooter that can't even

dribble.

There are times when a long jumper doesn't cut it.It's

amazing how useless GR becomes in those games.Also

when GR goes on missing spree his long jumpers lead

to long rebounds resulting in fastbreaks for the other

team.

There are alot of guys that can play Robinsons minutes

and collect 6 rebounds.Really,6 boards in 38MPG is

nothing to be impressed about to be honest.

You want me to tell you what Robinson is???The anti

Darius Miles.While he doesn't have a jumpshot, and

only has leaping ability,Robinson only has a jumper

and nothing else.

That's another big problem the Hawks have.The players

have limited offensive games....JT really is only good

at shooting the 3...Theo has a ok fouline jumper, but

nothing else...SAR has a post game and a sometimes

good and sometimes flat jumper.

Sadly,Dion has the best offensive game of any Hawk

because he can hit the 20 footer or slash to the basket

and he has some hops on top of that.

So I will say Robinson isn't the whole problem...But

he is the one I'd like to see go..As much as SAR has

pissed me off I realize he can't be traded and we

honestly can't improve that way..JT hopefully will

take something cheap, but Robinson has a big huge

contract and serves no purpose to this team.

[cyman3]

i'd rather take Newbles 12/7

than Robinsons 20/8 or whatever he has

[Guest]

Newble can't produce 12/7 over a full season...he's

not a good enough player to do that.

[Diesel]

Show me a 17/7 guy who we can get in place of Grob via Trade or FA? I'd love a 17/7 guy who can play defense. I'd make that deal immediately. However, I haven't heard any deals involving 17/7 guys who can play good defense. All I have heard is deals involving players nobody wants. And the followup line is... Well Ira can play SF. Come on man... Based on what? Some games against Sub .500 teams AT home?

[Guest]

It's not junk and you know I'm telling the truth.

The problem is Robinson isn't worth jack.Maybe

he'd make a good 6th man where he can come

in and shoot at guard other teams backups.

I'd take Harpering for him....I'd take Rashard

Lewis for him.I'd even take Eddie Griffin for

him..Aaron McKie...Alot of guys.

Robinson makes me so sick that his skills are

so limited that he can't dribble or pass.And for

those 3APG he averages he also throws the

ball into the wrong places most of the times

he actually does pass.

I think it's sad a "Pro" can't even dribble the

slightest bit.NBA players should atleast be able

to dribble a ball in open court without turning it

over.

As for Newble..He could be the starting SF if we

had a allstar SG that can handle the rock...BUT,

we don't one of those so Newble can't be a full

time starter for us at SF.We don't have Stack or

another allstar at SG.

[Diesel]

Who wouldn't take Harpring or Lewis or Griff?

The junk is that you make suggestions as if these guys are attainable for Big Dog. There are only 2 teams that I can think of that would take Big Dog... NY/PTL. Nobody else has the need or the Pockets to do that deal. Maybe Dallas. However, you act like 17/7 grows on trees. They don't Harpring is close but Utah won't deal him. And you can forget Seattle thinkingabout dealing Lewis. They moved GP to make Seattle Lewis's team.

[Guest]

I'd even take Ruben Patterson for Robinson IF he

wasn't what he is off the court.

I know nobody would take Robinson.I'd take less

than a 17/7 guy for Robinson.I'd almost take Tim

Thomas over him if his contract was smaller.I get

the point Robinson is stuck here.I'd consider demoting

him to a 6th man role.

[beav]

has absolutely no need for Robinson. The last thing that their offense needs is another jump shooter. The only way that PTL will pick up Atlanta's garbage is if they take on Portland's (ie Stoudamire) and Atlanta is not stupid enough to do that.

[Diesel]

If Robinson is stuck here, let's give him time with Stott's system in camp. IF he does disrupt, make him split his time with Ira. It's really that simple.

The problem is that I've seen Glenn play for most of his career. He's never been a defensive standout, but he's never been a disruptive player on offense either. If you give him good coaching, he'll play good ball. Try remember, right before we gave up Wilks... We played a couple of games... Philly being one of them where we won and the reason we won was because of Ball movement. Big Dog was a part of that. There were many here who praised Big Dog for playing well. What I'm saying is that it can be like that but we have to build chemistry.

http://www.hawksquawk.net/forums/showflat....amp;o=&vc=1

http://www.hawksquawk.net/forums/showflat....amp;o=&vc=1

[chillzatl]

WITH Grob in the lineup? That's a more accurate test of his value to this team.

Sure we can beat bad teams with him out of the lineup. But the question is, did we beat those teams WITH him in the lineup? lets see shall we...

Orlando - L W W

Washington - L L W W

Cleveland - W W W W

New Jersey - L L L W

Memphis - L W

Detroit - W L L L

New Orleans - W L W TBD

Milwaukee - W L L W

Boston - L L L

Ok so what does this tell us about Glen Robinson? Abso [censored] lutely nothing! It tells us that we can win or lose with him in the lineup.

All this twisting and bending of stats to try and validate Grobs place on this team is useless. All you have to do is watch the games! You can see how this team runs better without him. Wins and losses at this point mean nothing. BUt you can watch the games and clearly see that since Grob went down, this team plays better basketball, WIN OR LOSE.

Now that can easily be blamed on JT. JT is obviously not good at getting shots for two prime scorers AND himself AND the other role players. JT holds just as much of the blame for this situation as Grob does. A true point guard could adjust and succeed. JT has not done that.

The only important question is which one of them can we trade to get a player that fixes the problem they created??

neither of them have great value because of the well known weaknesses in their games.

[mrhonline]

I looked over the G.Rob's #'s and here's what I've found:

When he shoots:

1. 18+ shots, the Hawks are 12-27 (= .308)

2. 15-17 shots, the Hawks are 6-9 (= .400)

3. 12-14 shots, the Hawks are 8-5 (= .615)

4. Under 12 shots, 0-2

5. DNP, 9-3 (= .750)

The Hawks current winning percentage is .432, but it is .630 when Big Dog does not play or makes less than 15 shots. (27 game sample)

Not only do the Hawks play better when Big Dog is not in the lineup, they play better when he shoots less.

---

BTW, I don't think 17 ppg is necessary, two players (a SG & a SF) that could give 10-12 ppg on a CONSISTENT basis would be enough...The Hawks need role players more than the need a starting SF to score a lot of points...

[Guest]

As far back as I can remember, Robinson has been

called a ballhog......he's simply not that good of

a player.The only reason he does average 20PPG

is because he only plays one side of the floor.I'm

sure there are alot of other guys that could just

look to score and average 20PPG.Rip Hamliton

does the samething....And he does it in 30MPG.

20PPG is not the accomplishment you make it out

to be...More guys could do it if they were lazy on

defense...Allan Houston is a guy that does the

samething.

Talent wise Robinson doesn't have much to offer,

and I wasn't impressed with him all that much

in Mil.Back when you where suggesting ways to

get him, I was one of the ones that didn't want

him.He lacks desire and that rubs off on the

team....After you get passed his jumper,( which

is either completely on or completely missing)

you really don't have much of a player....He grabs

6RPG, but he plays 38MPG so that isn't all that

surprising.

Theo's shot blocking is overrated in the same manner..

Theo often leaves his men to go block the extra

shots and sometimes when he gambles he leaves

his man for a wide open dunk.

Robinson just scorers 20PPG cause that's almost

all he looks to do.

[mrhonline]

I agree about Robinson being a ballhog - he throws the team's rhythm of too easily...

BTW, I personally never wanted G. Rob. last summer - it was Jamison that I hoped Atlanta would get... I did think it was a good trade at the time. (It's still debatable whether the trade was worthwhile for Atlanta).

[Guest]

I don't like Jamison either, but I'd sure take him

over Robinson.