Aldridge scoring against Hawks

[AHF]

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As i said, there are more ways to beat a zone than just shooting over it.

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That is true, but to beat it without shooting over it you need to be able to run highly structured offensive plays and we haven't done that for a long time. People need to be making cuts off the ball, know where the weakensses are in the zone, etc.

Incidently, breaking a zone is one thing that a forward who can pass can excel at. If they receive a pass or penetrate to around the free throw line they will generally be given either an open mid-range jumper or some nice passing lanes (assuming people are moving off the ball the way they have been taught).

[Diesel]

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Incidently, breaking a zone is one thing that a forward who can pass can excel at. If they receive a pass or penetrate to around the free throw line they will generally be given either an open mid-range jumper or some nice passing lanes (assuming people are moving off the ball the way they have been taught).

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This is my point exactly... You can also do it with a big who can pass.

The Utah Jazz and the Miami heat are 29th and 27th respectively at shooting 3 pters in this league last year... Those teams faced zone defenses less than we did. The reason why is because they have the ability to beat the zone without having to shoot over it. Teams have learned to not zone Miami because they know Wade is a zone breaker...

[exodus]

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Those teams faced zone defenses less than we did.

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First of all where did you get that info from? Did you actually get it from a legit source or was it from your usual site www.mybunghole.com.

Secondly if we had Wade and Shaq that would certainly eliminate a lot of problems. Great call.

[Diesel]

Did you find out that I had sex with your mother... and she liked it?

I'm trying hard to figure out why I am always your target??

It's like without me, you don't exist.

You fend constantly looking for a post from Diesel...

In a strange and funny kind of way, I guess that makes you my B----??

I can still use the B word if it applies right?

I got some corners I need you to Work Exodus. I want you to hustle down there to RealGM and tell them What I Said... This game is all about dem Corners b----. I want you to work them until ain't no mo money!

And I want My money on time b----!!

[exodus]

I notice you didn't answer the question so i will ask it again.

Where did you get the info that Miami and Utah faced zone defenses less often than we do?

Was it the same place that told you that Marion scored more on dunks than Smith? Was it the same place that told you Marvin and JJ don't play well together?

I am still waiting to hear about these players we have at the 4 that are "longer" than Smith.

[exodus]

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It's easy to try to point a finger at Shelden, but the truth of the matter is Shelden only played a little more than 1/4 of the game. The true damage took place against Smoove. Fouled Smoove right out.

It really says that Smoove is not a PF.

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So Smith is not a 4 based on 1 preseason game that you didn't even see. ok

Meanwhile the Shelden excuse train rolls on.

[gsuteke]

temptation got the best of me

[Guest Walter]

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BTW who are these 4s on our team who are "longer" than Smith?

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Clearly, Horford. He isn't a 5.

W

[exodus]

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BTW who are these 4s on our team who are "longer" than Smith?

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Clearly, Horford. He isn't a 5.

W

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Horford's standing reach is only a half inch higher than Smith at 8'11". By comparison Aldridge's is 9'2".

[Guest Walter]

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BTW who are these 4s on our team who are "longer" than Smith?

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Clearly, Horford. He isn't a 5.

W

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Horford's standing reach is only a half inch higher than Smith at 8'11". By comparison Aldridge's is 9'2".

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[gsuteke]

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BTW who are these 4s on our team who are "longer" than Smith?

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Clearly, Horford. He isn't a 5.

W

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Horford's standing reach is only a half inch higher than Smith at 8'11". By comparison Aldridge's is 9'2".

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obviously it's a terribly small sample size if you go by just one game, however I am quite dissapointed by Aldridge's performance against the Hawks yesterday.

Granted the guy has a 3 inch standing reach advantage but he's also light in the pants. Horford and Josh Smith should be able to hold their own against him in the post.

[exodus]

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BTW who are these 4s on our team who are "longer" than Smith?

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Clearly, Horford. He isn't a 5.

W

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Horford's standing reach is only a half inch higher than Smith at 8'11". By comparison Aldridge's is 9'2".

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obviously it's a terribly small sample size if you go by just one game, however I am quite dissapointed by Aldridge's performance against the Hawks yesterday.

Granted the guy has a 3 inch standing reach advantage but he's also light in the pants. Horford and Josh Smith should be able to hold their own against him in the post.

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In a regular season game i am sure that Aldridge would find it a little more difficult to get post position.

[exodus]

So do you really think that half inch matters given that Smiths vertical is 5" higher?

[Traceman]

I was at the game and we were trying to guard Aldridge man to man with Smoove and he simply couldn't handle him down low. Smoove didn't fight very hard to keep him from getting into position and once he got into position, he simply elevated over Smoove with his impossibly long arms. Whenever the two were on the court together, Smoove guarded Aldridge.

Maybe Woody didn't double because it was preseason but the few times that Marvin did double down on Aldridge the results for us were positive. I think that we would have doubled Aldridge on the catch in the regular season and forced Outlaw or Jack to try to make jump shots (which neither is particularly good at).

I thought Horford did the best job on Aldridge (although Aldridge scored on him a time or two) because he didn't allow Aldridge to get the position he wanted without a fight. Still, Aldridge is a good low post player and it would have been fun watching him and Oden play together.

As for the game as a whole, there was some good and some not so good:

JJ still has that buttery smooth J and he still has that tear drop.

Marvin had a very impressive stretch in the 2nd quarter where he looked like the best player on the floor. Now, if we can just get him to play like that for longer stretches.

Smoove and Marvin seem to be developing chemistry on the break. On one play Smoove got the board, hit Marvin with the outlet pass, ran the floor and Marvin hit him with a perfect no look pass for the dunk. On another play, Smoove got a loose ball, took a couple of dribbles and hit a cutting Marvin for a sweet layup.

Horford still looks like a player. He showed range to the top of the key, he runs the floor and he's physical. I think he's more of a PF than a Center but I think he is as good a Center as Zaza is already.

Smoove has TONS of talent but I just wish he would stop shooting that J of his so much. I know he is streaky and he can get hot but when he's off, he's WAY off. Still, he is becoming a GREAT rebounder and if given the opportunity, it won't shock me to see him average a double double this season. He is also already one of the best pure shotblockers in the NBA and this team needs that.

AJ was AJ - he usually doesn't hurt you but he's not going to win games for you often either.

Shelden - I just don't know what to say. I keep thinking that at some point he is going to be this solid rebounder/defender guy who can finish around the basket but he was just AWFUL. He is all thumbs and he has NO coordination. Maybe it is a confidence thing because he seems to be thinking too much instead of just playing. I wish he would just catch the ball and shoot it or pass it rather than trying to make a move because he is going to travel or fumble the ball out of bounds.

All in all, not a great performance by any stretch but I'm not too worried about it because I don't think we would have tried some of the things we tried in the game during the regular season (Zaza/Shelden/Smoove/Marvin/AJ).

I thought the absence of T Lue, Salim, Law and even Chillz allowed Portland to pack the zone in pretty tight.

[DJlaysitup]

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...Shelden...I wish he would just catch the ball and shoot it or pass it rather than trying to make a move because he is going to travel or fumble the ball out of bounds...

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Agreed...Shelden needs to dispense with the head fakes. When you have a noggin the size of Shelden's, that is going to throw you off-balance!

[Johann]

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Agreed...Shelden needs to dispense with the head fakes. When you have a noggin the size of Shelden's, that is going to throw you off-balance!

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LOL!

[Diesel]

No this has been Smoove's M.O. for the longest..

He allows Post players (good or Bad) to get overwhelming position and he goes for the block...

You see you don't watch basketball and it seems like you haven't played it either.

To play the PF position or the C position, you have to fight for position before the ball even gets there. Do you know why people considered Juwaun Howard a good defensive player for so long even though he didn't get steals or blocks? It's because his man was out of his SPOT when he finally got the ball. That's good defense. You're talking about Standing reaches and Jumping ability as if that matters. Low Post Defense is about hard work and positioning. Smoove doesn't work before the ball comes in because his game has grown up as a Sf's game. He'd do much better trying to come backside for a block than he will trying to play positional defense. That's why when we play teams with "REAL" PFs and Cs... We will get killed inside. Guys like Zach Randolph and Al Jefferson are just rubbing their hands waiting to play the Hawks. And it's not because of Zaza!

[TheNorthCydeRises]

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I was at the game and we were trying to guard Aldridge man to man with Smoove and he simply couldn't handle him down low. Smoove didn't fight very hard to keep him from getting into position and once he got into position, he simply elevated over Smoove with his impossibly long arms. Whenever the two were on the court together, Smoove guarded Aldridge.

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What I purposely left out yesterday, when I started this thread, were the C and/or PF that Aldridge was playing with at the time. And when I saw that Frye went off in the 2nd quarter with Smoove and ZaZa on the floor, I figured that if we weren't playing zone, that Portland was going right after Josh Smith.

And the reason why I started the mid-range thread ( which only a few responded to ), after I reviewed how everybody shot, was to see who could honestly justify NOT taking the ball to the hole. By looking at the numbers, you could say that Acie should always take it to the hole. But he's only taken 7 long range shots, out of 28. That means that he's in attack mode 75% of the time.

What the Hawks as a whole do, is let teams off the hook by taking long jumpers. Even in a zone, you still have to go right at people, especially if they're going right at you. When you don't attack a zone, and they attack you on the other end, there are almost always going to be problems.

A lot of you talk about how important it is for Marvin to be in attack mode at all times. Well, I think on the offensive end, it's even MORE IMPORTANT for Smoove to be in attack mode. Whe he's in attack mode, he's a borderline All-Star type of player. When he settles for that jumper, he's a liability on offense.

Of the 40 shots Smoove has taken, 20 have been from 15 feet and out. That's 50% folks. We can't have that out of him. Not at the PF position. He needs to make a conscious efford to ALWAYS get as close to the rim as possible.

Who can take an outside shot for the Hawks? ( according to the stoplight system )

Green Light

JJ

Flashing Yellow Light

Marvin

Salim

Lue

Yellow Light

Acie

AJ

Chill

Horford

West ( he will make the 15-man roster )

Flashing Red Light

Smoove

ZaZa

Shelden

Red Light

Solomon

Lorenzen

Speedy ( he's another guy that I'd just rather see get as close to the hoop as possible )

[TheNorthCydeRises]

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No this has been Smoove's M.O. for the longest..

He allows Post players (good or Bad) to get overwhelming position and he goes for the block...

You see you don't watch basketball and it seems like you haven't played it either.

To play the PF position or the C position, you have to fight for position before the ball even gets there. Do you know why people considered Juwaun Howard a good defensive player for so long even though he didn't get steals or blocks? It's because his man was out of his SPOT when he finally got the ball. That's good defense. You're talking about Standing reaches and Jumping ability as if that matters. Low Post Defense is about hard work and positioning. Smoove doesn't work before the ball comes in because his game has grown up as a Sf's game. He'd do much better trying to come backside for a block than he will trying to play positional defense. That's why when we play teams with "REAL" PFs and Cs... We will get killed inside. Guys like Zach Randolph and Al Jefferson are just rubbing their hands waiting to play the Hawks. And it's not because of Zaza!

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. . and the way he plays. You're even right about his mindset.

But playing him at SF, is the absolute WRONG thing to do as far as the Hawks go . . . unless you don't want him to be an offensive threat whatsoever.

This kid cannot shoot. When you can't shoot, you must take the ball to the hole. He can't take SF's off the dribble, if he's starting 20 feet from the basket. He CAN take PF's and C's off the dribble, if he's starting 16 feet from the basket. He proved that time and time again last March and April.

He has a better chance of being a good PF, than he does being a good SF.

You can teach a guy how to get position. But very rarely, can you teach a bad shooter, how to be a good shooter. Not at this stage in his career.

I would love for this kid to just be a garbage man type scorer if need be, by just being active around the rim at all times. But the people who talk about him possibly being a 20 ppg scorer, are out of their minds, if they expect him to reach that mark by just shooting jumpers and occasionally driving to the hole. He has to be in FULL attack mode at ALL times. Even more than Marvin. Marvin, at least, can get away with just catching and shooting on the perimeter, because he can make that shot over 40 - 45% of the time. With Smoove, you're talking 30 - 35% of the time.

The kid has to flat out change his midset as a player, if he wants to reach star or superstar status. I think, in due time, he'll realize what he has to do, and make the adjustments in his game.

[exodus]

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He allows Post players (good or Bad) to get overwhelming position and he goes for the block...

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He doesn't do that anywhere near as much as you make out. He does at time allow players to post him too deep, in part because they are stronger and in part because he doesn't work hard enough.

There are many 4s that are much stronger than Smith. Aldridge isn't one of them. If Smith wanted to keep him out of deep position he could. He probably just wasn't trying that hard since it was a preseason game.

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That's why when we play teams with "REAL" PFs and Cs... We will get killed inside.

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Here Diesel re-enters his world of make believe.

First of all he says "pfs and Cs" as if Smith is responsible for both positions. Then he ignores reality again.

The reality is that Smith didn't get killed inside at the 4 at all. Only two players exceeded their average by more than 2 pts against Smith. One was Duncan who obviously is too much for Smith to handle. The other was Dirk who doesn't play inside.