Just heard rumor on 790theZone that....

[MoonKnight]

Hawks were interested in trading GRob for Glen Rice. The Show's host did not site his source but said that the Hawks would make the deal b/c Rice has one year left on his K and that the Rockets were interested in GRob's services. If Rice was willing to come off the pine (I think he would unlike GRob) then this might be a way to clear out cap space a year early. Thoughts?

[Admin]

Sorry but Big Dog is the best mid range shooter in the league and can get his shot off against anyone and is also one of the best rebounding SFs in the game and only has what 2 years left on his deal? I wouldnt even consider that deal unless the Rockets gave us their lotto pick, and that is still reach.

[Diesel]

It would have to be more than Rice. Rice is washed up.

How about Rice + First (2003) or Rice + Griff. However, Rice alone is not enough.

[cynic]

I don't think that helps us much.

I'd have to see what our cap situation would be.

We'd be clearing Theo and Rice at the same time, but if we resign JT, wouldn't we still be close to the cap?

Hendu = 7 mil

Nazr = 6 mil

SAR = 12 mil

JT = 5-6 mil?

CC = 4 mil

That's 34 million or so right there

Of course, if we resign Glove, DJ, or Ira, it adds to that.

If we could get Eddie Griffin / Rice for Dog / something, I'd do it.

[MoonKnight]

The host did not indicate if the deal was a straight up player for player trade or not. Actually Mobley (cap permitting)would be as decent pick up to play the 2.

[Diesel]

CAP....CRap.

You don't care about the dang Cap. [censored], Kasten doesn't really care about the Cap. The Cap is not really a concern to the fans. So stop trying to use it as some form of Justification. IF we get the right Owner, Cap means NOTHING.

BUT...

What you should consider is talent.

YOu know darn well that Glenn Rice was Washed up when he left LA. You know he's not good for more than 20 mpg. To even consider this guy in a straight up trade for a 21/7 Sf who can play 40 mpg is a bad joke.

[Diesel]

I'm willing to bet that Mobley isn't ever considered in any trade. Mobley is the most underrated player in the league... Either him or Murphy. However, Mobley is what makes Houston work. Francis is good but Mobley makes all the pieces fit.... by being a PG, Rebounder, 3 pt shooter...etc...etc. IF we could get Mobley for Big Dog, I'd take him and any bad contract (cato, etc) that they want to lose.

[cynic]

How do you know that I didn't consider talent.

I was considering talent when I said, 'I don't think it helps us much.'

You call others out for using poor logic. Look at the plank in your own eye this time.

Correct reasoning:

If Rice's talent were at least equal to Big Dog's, the trade would be a no-brainer. Why? Well, trading one player for a better or equivalent player who has a less cumbersome contract is generally good. That should be facile.

Now, in saying that the trade doesn't help us much, I'm implying that, although we are improving our cap situation, the improvement does not offset the trading of superior talent for lesser talent.

IF THAT WERE NOT ENOUGH, I went on to say that we needed to get Griff out of the trade to balance things. That should've been a clear sign that I do not consider a trade of Dog for Rice equal. So, I clearly considered talent. What's your problem??

DIESEL's inherently illogical reasoning:

Cynic mentioned the cap. Therefore, he could not have possibly considered talent. I didn't read what he said about Griff because I didn't get that far, so I didn't factor that into my conclusion.

That is a poor conclusion. I have a magic rock over here that keeps tigers away. Want proof? I've never been attacked by a tiger. Want to buy it????

Actually, the problem is not that you can't think. It's that you are so blinded by emotions the minute you see someone mention trading your favorite player, that all you can do is argue for him, as if he were the second coming.

I think we should trade Dog, but only for something that makes us better. Trading him for a player who is the same style, but worse (like Rice) when it doesn't even give us cap space (which is overrated, but still has SOME value) is not the right thing to do, as I SAID, but you either didn't read or could not piece together inside your head. BTW, tell the Lakers that cap space doesn't matter. Tell the Spurs that it doesn't matter when they get Kidd.

[Diesel]

Nobody's on Dawg's sack. It's very simple. Just becuase you don't like DOg doesn't mean that you have to go around amening every DOg for Crap Trade you see. How Logical is it to trade a 21/7 SF for a old broken down 9.6/3 SF who can't play but 20 mpg?

It makes no sense to let a team take advantage of us in a trade just because we're not happy with the outcome of this season.

Secondly you Said.

In reply to:

---

Now, in saying that the trade doesn't help us much, I'm implying that, although we are improving our cap situation, the improvement does not offset the trading of superior talent for lesser talent.

---

Again, why are you hiding behind this idea that we have to worry about the Cap?? The Cap really should mean Little to us being that it's the owners call. I say if McDavid becomes Owner, then the cap means Nothing at all. Why not listen to Kasten? He talks about it in terms you should be able to agree with. All that the fan is concern with is the final product.

IN SHORT...

If Minn decided to trade us KG for Big Dog would you be concerned with the Cap? Because what should really drive you is not the cap but the talent. It could be 7 years of KG in a Hawks Jersey making 20+ Million per Year... Would you care? So why are you so concerned NOW?

Well, I know. YOU have to find some way of saying you don't want to trade Grob for Crap without having to say... YES, Diesel is right... Trading Grob for Crap wouldn't make us Better.

As far as your thought about obtaining free agents.. Forget it.

FAs only leave their parent teams for better situations. IF we trade Grob for Crap, we could have a Billion dollars under the cap, and we'd be just like Denver!! It would take us overpaying some overrated player for him to come here.

Bottom Line..

The Cap is not our concern because weather we have money or not it doesn't make any difference to us. What we should try to do is collect value. NObody wants CRAP in a trade.

[flava]

TRADING GROBB (FOR ANYBODY) IS ADDITION BY SUBTRACTION. NO MATTER WHO WE GET, WE'LL BE A BETTER TEAM. JUST LOOK AT OUR LINEUP WITHOUT THE CLOWN.

FLAVA

[Guest]

I remember i wanted Mobley a few years back but

Dolfan said something about him not being really

that good or shooting too much or something...

[Diesel]

JT...... Not a real PG.... Really a SG who can't run the offense unless it's really dumbed down.

Glover.... A good athletic SG who can't Shoot well. He has had 1 injury free season out of 4 and his offense is still inconsistent.

Ira..... Ty Corbin Jr. He's a guy who is a defensive specialist. His offensive accomplishments are to see if he can score more than 5 points in consecutive games.

SAR.... Undersized PF with a real Low Post game. Only problem is that he doesn't have a scorers mentality.

Theo.... Great SHot Blocker. Undersized C... Undersized PF too. He's a 7 rpg C. He might get 8-10 points on a good night.

I'm looking at the starting Lineup. This is what I see. I see a team that Can't score. Say what you want about defense. Defense is fine but this team would have problems beating Miami. How long does it take a team to figure out that all they have to do is double Reef and make the other guys score? How long will it take for teams to realize that if they play agressively that they can easily outrebound us.

NO... I'm not saying that Grob is the answer to all of our problems... But as you look, you can see that we have many problems with Grob out and one that becomes big is our scoring.

It's not Addition by subtraction... It's stupid.

[flava]

clearly, we are not seeing the same team.

as far as your comment about scoring is concerned, i'd say JT knows a thing or two about scoring.

but scoring isn't this teams problem. it's defense. with big hog in the lineup, other teams averaged 7 more points per game against us.

to keep it simple, in my estimation, the reason this team has struggled with offense in years past is because there was no teamwork. get the team on the same page and guys like ira and dg can score (they showed so).

i hate to burst your bubble, but grob is a cancer. with a real coach and some belief in the team concept, the hawks would have produced whether we started kukoc (although he is a defensive liability) or newble (who is in no way ty corbin jr.).

but believe what you wish to believe....

flava

[Diesel]

How many points per game did we average with Big Dog Out...

Don't forget the 66 points against Boston and the 77 points against New Orleans.

[Guest]

We need a creative scorer....That doesn't fit the

discription of either Robinson or JT.Both of them

are the problem.

[Guest]

Paul Pierce would the the perfect guy IMO.....Too

bad he will not be traded.

[cyman3]

It shouldnt be our concern... as a FAN, we should care about 2 things.... the WINS and the CHAMPIONSHIP RING.

The hawks have a guy thats in charge of watching over the CAP... thats not our JOB as a fan, thats THEIRS!

As long as we are winning, i dont care if we are $20-30 Million over the cap.... why should i? am i paying for it??? no!!!

I dont think we should worry about cap... leave that to the people whos hired to worry about it.

I would EASILY WELCOME KEVIN GARNETT and his heavy contract.

[Diesel]

It Humors me that Guys like to come here and expound about the cap as if it is a concern to us? OF course, every fan would like their team to have flexibility.... But sheez, we shouldn't trade good players for CAP ROOM alone. I wouldn't want a GM whoose main goal was to make sure we stay under the cap? That would mean that we'd make uneven deals and end up with Crappy teams....

Field of Dreams describes exactly what is true.

IF you build it, they will come.

That's a note to the GM. IF you build a good team, people will come out to watch them. If you build a team full of Ty Corbin Jrs. and who can only score 80 ppg while limiting the opponents to 79 ppg.. The Phil will stay empty.

Bring some winning and excitement to this team and move out of the way of the crowds that will come. Forget the Cap.

[PoppaFritz]

You guys are sort of right about the cap. To say it doesn't matter at all isn't true. It does matter to teams when players of value are available via free agency. If we can free up enough cap space to add a franchise player in 2-3 years, then it might be worth taking on Glenn Rice for a year. What has to be determined is if we can win right away or not.

Franchises that free up cap space are counting on not being successful for a couple of years. I don't think the Hawks are to that point yet but if they don't make the playoffs next year it might be time to clean house and free up some cap room.

[chillzatl]

You don't trade a 20/6 player, albeit one with limited other skills, for a washed up guy that likes to complain about his minutes. Rice is WASHED UP.