HS is So predictable

[Johnnybravo4]

The most fascinating thing about this board (and the most predictable) is that 90% of the board bitches about the state of the team and the same 90% are almost always opposed to any move.

Amare? He's no real center, who needs him

Marbury? Nah, Lue's better

Kobe? Cancer.

Webber? I'll pass..besides Horfords a HOFer

AI? Are you kidding me? He'd take shots from Marvin

The problem is that everyone, with the exception of Hotlanta, has "their guy" and any trade that includes "their guy" it is automatically vetoed.

I have described this phenomenon as the Syndrome of Perpetual Xmas Eve. Since we have watched this young core patiently develop over the years, we feel that we deserve to watch this same core win a championship together, no matter how long it takes. The truth is however, that teams rarely win this way. In order to win we have to acquire a Rasheed Wallace, or a Shaquille O'neal...or as we have seen this first month of the season, a Kevin Garnett and Ray Allen.

I don't think there were many fans in Boston yelling "We don't want Garnett, that Al Jefferson is a beast!"

We as a fan base need to have the balls to let our youth go in order to improve the franchise. Maybe then the FO will grow some balls as well and make the move. If that means that Smoove and/or Marvin have to go in order to get Kobe, then so be it...hell I'll help em both pack.

[Nicholasp27]

amare, i woulda done trade, but now i'm thinking maybe best not since he's injury-prone

marbury: better than lue, but not team-oriented

kobe: i'd take him for jj+piece+filler, but he won't come here

webber: i'd take him for cheap

[coachx]

You don't get "it" like another 90% of fans on here who want to blow up the team after just 5 games.

How about just a little bit of patience and maturity?

If we win vs. The Bobcats everyone will be singing the praises again until the next loss. The board generaly jumps to "end all, be all" conclusions too soon.

You throw all this crap on the wall and none of it sticks. That is hard to so, eventually something has to stick.

You want Marbury ? You need help. Read this and see how he handled being taken off the bench infront of his teamates:

http://realgm.com/src_wiretap_archives/491...t_isiah_thomas/

Now how do you think Starbury would act if Woody decided to start Law ?

You want Kobe ? Too bad cause he don't want the Hawks and would be a free agent very soon anyway.

Webber ? Please. No team wants Webber for a reason. He is done.

AI - ya, lets trade Smoove snd Marvin for AI. When AI is retiring the guys we traded would just be entering the prime of the their careers while we was 3 first round playoff exits to show for it before another rebuild after Iverson.

[TroyMcClure]

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The problem is that everyone, with the exception of Hotlanta, has "their guy" and any trade that includes "their guy" it is automatically vetoed.

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Not true. I don't have any reservations about trading anyone on this team. Although I'd let some go quicker than others.

I do agree about the xmas eve thing. I'm a realist and I know there isn't much under the tree for us. I don't mind hope... but blind hope disturbs me.

[Johnnybravo4]

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You don't get "it" like another 90% of fans on here who want to blow up the team after just 5 games.

How about just a little bit of patience and maturity?

If we win vs. The Bobcats everyone will be singing the praises again until the next loss. The board generaly jumps to "end all, be all" conclusions too soon.

You throw all this crap on the wall and none of it sticks. That is hard to so, eventually something has to stick.

You want Marbury ? You need help. Read this and see how he handled being taken off the bench infront of his teamates:

http://realgm.com/src_wiretap_archives/491...t_isiah_thomas/

Now how do you think Starbury would act if Woody decided to start Law ?

You want Kobe ? Too bad cause he don't want the Hawks and would be a free agent very soon anyway.

Webber ? Please. No team wants Webber for a reason. He is done.

AI - ya, lets trade Smoove snd Marvin for AI. When AI is retiring the guys we traded would just be entering the prime of the their careers while we was 3 first round playoff exits to show for it before another rebuild after Iverson.

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You just exactly proved my point...thanks

[exodus]

The Hawks will eventually be forced to trade one or more of their young guys or let them go.

Knowing BK he will wait until the last minute and then accept a crap deal or make a desperation move.

Foresight isn't his strong suit.

[AHF]

My view is that any player is movable for the right price and situation. This team is set to really hit its peak in about 3 years so I would make any moves with that in mind. (I.e., they should be winning now but don't give up a young and improving piece for someone like Shaq, Zydrunas Ilgauskas or Brad Miller who are past their prime already and don't have much of a future with this team.)

For the moves you mentioned here are/were my views:

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Amare? He's no real center, who needs him

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I would have loved to have been able to acquire Amare in the offseason.

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Marbury? Nah, Lue's better

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Marbury is MUCH more skilled than Lue but is a bad apple who does not play defense or team ball. Too much baggage for too little upside for me. If he is cut, I will be crossing my fingers if he returns to Atlanta but with his obvious immaturity I would be reluctant to add him if I were the GM.

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Kobe? Cancer.

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I would trade anyone on our team for Kobe if he was interested in playing in Atlanta. I would not give too much, though, because I don't think he would stay unless he had enough talent to make a run in the East after the trade. Without a first round pick this year, we have our assets on this roster already.

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Webber? I'll pass..besides Horfords a HOFer

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I would pick him up cheap but I don't think that he would have any interest in playing for the Hawks.

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AI? Are you kidding me? He'd take shots from Marvin

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AI is a very tough guy to build around and is on the downside of his career. Add him if you can get him for a steal (ala the Vince Carter trade) but I would not give up more than one of our core young players for him. I would be very excited if we did pick him up and would root hard for that to be a success but I have my doubts as to how well any team built around him can succeed.

[coachx]

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You just exactly proved my point...thanks

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I have no idea what you are talking about. Being a smart ass does not mean you have a valid point.

Your post has made no realistic points, just alot of swing and misses.

[Johnnybravo4]

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AI - ya, lets trade Smoove snd Marvin for AI. When AI is retiring the guys we traded would just be entering the prime of the their careers while we was 3 first round playoff exits to show for it before another rebuild after Iverson.

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This is exactly what I was referring to in my Boston example. The folks in Boston could give a rat's ass whether or not Al Jefferson or Gerald Green will become Allstars....All they know that they are 6-0, the stadium is rocking and they have their big 3. Who gives a crap about 5 years from now...odds are that neither Jefferson nor Green will retire with their current team. Do you think that Miami regrets trading Caron and Lamar for Shaq?

[coachx]

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AI - ya, lets trade Smoove snd Marvin for AI. When AI is retiring the guys we traded would just be entering the prime of the their careers while we was 3 first round playoff exits to show for it before another rebuild after Iverson.

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This is exactly what I was referring to in my Boston example. The folks in Boston could give a rat's ass whether or not Al Jefferson or Gerald Green will become Allstars....All they know that they are 6-0, the stadium is rocking and they have their big 3. Who gives a crap about 5 years from now...odds are that neither Jefferson nor Green will retire with their current team. Do you think that Miami regrets trading Caron and Lamar for Shaq?

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How can you relate 7 footers like Garnette and (Shaq of 2004 ) to a 32 year old 6'1'' Allen Iverson. Iverson's game and body are not holding much longer. As soon as he looses a step he is done. His decline will happen overnight.

Bottom line is that a 32 year old Allen Iverson does not give a team the same chance at a title that a Garnette or 2004 model Shaq would give a team.

Now if you were to throw in names Tyson Chandler (a young big who would actually fill a need) you may be on to someting.

If you truely think Marvin, Smith and cap fillers for a 32 year old Iverson is a good deal you have problems with reality or you are a Nuggets fan in disguise. The Nuggest would do that deal over, and over, and over again. Go run your deal by some Nuggets boards and see how fast they sign up and see how fast they think you are one of them....meaning your a Nuggets fan.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

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AI - ya, lets trade Smoove snd Marvin for AI. When AI is retiring the guys we traded would just be entering the prime of the their careers while we was 3 first round playoff exits to show for it before another rebuild after Iverson.

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This is exactly what I was referring to in my Boston example. The folks in Boston could give a rat's ass whether or not Al Jefferson or Gerald Green will become Allstars....All they know that they are 6-0, the stadium is rocking and they have their big 3. Who gives a crap about 5 years from now...odds are that neither Jefferson nor Green will retire with their current team. Do you think that Miami regrets trading Caron and Lamar for Shaq?

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How can you relate 7 footers like Garnette and (Shaq of 2004 ) to a 32 year old 6'1'' Allen Iverson. Iverson's game and body are not holding much longer. As soon as he looses a step he is done. His decline will happen overnight.

Bottom line is that a 32 year old Allen Iverson does not give a team the same chance at a title that a Garnette or 2004 model Shaq would give a team.

Now if you were to throw in names Tyson Chandler (a young big who would actually fill a need) you may be on to someting.

If you truely think Marvin, Smith and cap fillers for a 32 year old Iverson is a good deal you have problems with reality or you are a Nuggets fan in disguise. The Nuggest would do that deal over, and over, and over again. Go run your deal by some Nuggets boards and see how fast they sign up and see how fast they think you are one of them....meaning your a Nuggets fan.

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Good lord Coach. An AI - JJ backcourt INSTANTLY becomes the best backcourt in the league. While I agree that it's a little too early to trade anybody, you're telling me you wouldn't roll with this team?

THIS WILL NEVER HAPPEN . . but say your hypothetical trade involves giving up Marvin, Smoove, Speedy, and Lue . . for Iverson ( which actually works by the way ). Granted, if I were them, I'd be asking for Law as well. But I would do everything in my power to hold onto Acie. This is your Hawks team.

AI

JJ

Chill

Horford

ZaZa

Law

AJ

Salim

West

Shelden

Solomon

Wright

Apparantely, a lot of people on this site believe that JJ is a 2nd option anyway, so a guy like AI would be the perfect compliment to him. No more double teams for JJ, when AI is in the game beside him.

On this team, the core of the bench ( Law, Shelden, West, and possibly Salim and Solomon ) would have increased roles, and would have to come up big each night. Well, at least one or two would have to give us solid play every night.

I don't know what Iverson some of you have been watching, but he's becoming a BETTER PLAYER, not one that is in decline. He's been able to take better shots and become a better playmaker, since teaming up with an all-star talent like Melo. And the same would happen if he teamed up with JJ.

Shoot, you could even throw out this starting lineup, if a guy like Mario West was used strictly as a defensive stopper, much in the way that Trenton Hassell, Bruce Bowen, and Ira Newble are used:

AI

West

JJ

Horford

ZaZa

The formula for winning championships in this league, has almost always been . . . have 2 guys who are playing at all-star level, and at least one other guy who plays like an all-star sporadically. Almost every team, with the exception of the Houston Rockets of the mid-90s, and maybe the first few Bulls championship teams of 91 & 92, have had this element on their championship teams.

So we'd have all-stars in JJ and AI. And what happens if Horford develops rapidly because of the presence of AI? There's your 3rd guy right there. He'd be the key for this really working here.

There is no guarantee that either Smith nor Marvin become all-star talents. They will become good to very good players, but maybe not all-star talents. If they do, that's great for us if we keep them. But we'd still potentially have an even more potent "Big 3" in place with JJ - AI - and Horford. Plus we'd still have a guy like Law as a backup PG?

LOL @ not wanting AI, because you don't want to give up Smith and Marvin. AI is an impact player. If this deal was on the table for AI, I would tak a LONG, HARD LOOK AT IT. A serious one. AI in Atlanta would make the Hawks ticket a pretty hard one to get.

And no . . the Nugget fans wouldn't take Smith and Marvin for AI, because they already have Melo, who can play both the 3 and the 4. Melo and Nene >> Smith and Marvin.

It's a reason why they traded the PG that a lot of people on this board wanted, in Andre Miller, for Allen Iverson. They wanted an IMPACT GUY, not just a solid PG.

[coachx]

I just don't see AI making us a contender.

He is an inefficient player, it is not like we are talking about a 7' Kevin Garnett. Sure AI would bring out the crowds and make some money for the franchise but at 32 he is not a guy I look to trade for in order to have a 1 or 2 year window of maxing out as a 2nd round playoff team.

I see Iverson's body breaking down and him losing a step next season and definately so by the 2009-2010 season.

I think the window of oppurtunity is too small to give away both a 21 and 22 year old 6'9'' talent for a 32 year old 6'1'' guy.

To me the risk of giving up too early on Smith or Marvin outweighs the rewards AI brings.

That is just my opinion. Heck, all Philly could get for AI was a 30 year old Andre Miller and 2 lotto protected first rounders, so the NBA market place seems to agree with me.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

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I just don't see AI making us a contender.

He is an inefficient player, it is not like we are talking about a 7' Kevin Garnett. Sure AI would bring out the crowds and make some money for the franchise but at 32 he is not a guy I look to trade for in order to have a 1 or 2 year window of maxing out as a 2nd round playoff team.

I see Iverson's body breaking down and him losing a step next season and definately so by the 2009-2010 season.

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Let me stop right here. An inefficient player? A guy who is averaging almost 26 ppg, over 8 assists, and is shooting over 45% FG, and gets to the line almost 9 times a game, is an "inefficient player"?

If JJ were doing that right now, 90% of Hawksquawk would be touting him as an MVP candidate . . with the exception of maybe Hotlanta and a few others who think JJ is still a 2nd option.

And this is the Eastern Conference. It's not like we're in the West or something. In the East, you might only need 2 star players to get to the NBA Finals. The Wizards were the #1 team in the East last January, before Jamison went down. LeBron got to the NBA Finals with a rag-tag bunch of role players around him. And those teams to me are nothing special.

After not even sniffing the playoffs for 8 years, I'd definitely take 2 consecutive seasons of getting to th EC Semifinals.

As far as Iverson's body breaking down, that guy keeps himself in great shape. He gets hurt because he plays so hard. But in Denver, he can scale it back a little, because he knows that he has a potent scorer he can give the ball to. He doesn't have to be the entire offense for 40 minutes a night, like he did in Philly. He can pick and choose his spots in Denver. And the same would be the case if teamed with JJ and Horford here.

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I think the window of oppurtunity is too small to give away both a 21 and 22 year old 6'9'' talent for a 32 year old 6'1'' guy.

To me the risk of giving up too early on Smith or Marvin outweighs the rewards AI brings.

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That's exactly what Chicago thinks about Deng and Gordon, when they didn't pull the trigger on the Gasol trade, or when the Kobe talks broke down. They're valuing their young talent tremendously. When you do that, you BETTER BE RIGHT. Smith's struggles this year, has sent most of this fan base into a tailspin, because they were expecting him to be the breakout player, not Marvin.

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That is just my opinion. Heck, all Philly could get for AI was a 30 year old Andre Miller and 2 lotto protected first rounders, so the NBA market place seems to agree with me.

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I think the NBA values their young talent the vast majority of the time. Then they get mad when Ainge pulls a coup like he did in Boston. The fact that Minny took on all of those young players and expiring contracts, proves that a team like the Hawks could've possibly landed Garnett . . if it had the guts to let go of some of its young talent.

Boston took a huge risk, and it's paying off big time for them. If either one of the Big 3 gets hurt, especially Garnett, it becomes a disaster. But when you haven't won in a long while, I can understand them taking that risk.

I don't mind us at all playing it safe with the youngsters. Just believe that an all-star caliber player, teamed with JJ, gets us to the playoffs. Even if its a guy like a Jason Kidd or even a Vince Carter.

[Atlantaholic]

You don't mortgage your future for 32 yo guards. I mean never, ever, EVER!!!! If there was a GMing school this would be lesson #1. The AI-Smoove trade is insane... right now they have about equal value but in two years, or even as early as next year Smoove will be in another stratosphere of production than AI.

I would have taken Amare in a heart-beat, because he is still young (though injuries would be a concern) and he gives us an interior presence, at least on offense, that we do not possess. I was also for taking a KG deal, but only if we could keep a core of J-Smoove/Marvin and JJ...Still, KG's age is a concern, and if Boston doesn't win a championship this year or next, they probably will be stuck with fat-ass aging contracts and no shot at contention for a while...because history has shown, time and time again, that players almost always see a sharp decline in their production when they turn 33, and KG is already 31.

I agree with you that we won't be good unless BK makes some additional moves. He has really done absolutely NOTHING of any creativity other than field a god-awful team year, after year and then draft lottery picks. Some people see this as "genius" but in reality, it is gutless, and lazy. Though I don't agree with the AI trade, the Amare/KG potential deals are things that may have been the answer for our team... Regardless, it shouldn't be up to the fans to point out what needs to be done, we should have a professional GM making smarter moves than we can come up with... when people defend him saying "well, jeez... there's nothing available! what do you expect BK to do?" they are really gulping down that kool-aid. With as much young talent as we have accumulated, there is really one million things that could be done to tweak our roster. If a savyier GM was in charge he would be popping a boner at the thought of all that he can do to build a team, with as much attractive trade bait as the Hawks have right now.

[coachx]

Glad your not the GM trading away 21 and 22 year old future stars for a 32 years old guard.

We just have to agree to disagree.