TexasPete Posted December 17, 2007 Report Share Posted December 17, 2007 Quote: "better upside" is good for 34 minutes on the court and starter label... Even when you suck. Marvin is still not better. You can't prove it... You can only poll the Marvin fans and try to get them on your side. If you go by Way of Stats, Chillz may be better. IF you go by way of who plays both sides of the court... Chillz. IF you go by way of who hustles the most... Chillz. Marvin is actually a standstill midrange shooter. Period. It's sad that he has only shot 3 3pters this season and we are prolly the worst three point shooting team in the game. I believe that given the minutes, Chillz can outrebound Marvin if he's not doing so already.. I think you'd do better saying "Well, Chillz play better off the bench" Whatever the hell that means.. Marvin had to have stolen your woman. That's the only explanation for this continued stupidity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Diesel Posted December 17, 2007 Premium Member Report Share Posted December 17, 2007 Quote: Quote: "better upside" is good for 34 minutes on the court and starter label... Even when you suck. Marvin is still not better. You can't prove it... You can only poll the Marvin fans and try to get them on your side. If you go by Way of Stats, Chillz may be better. IF you go by way of who plays both sides of the court... Chillz. IF you go by way of who hustles the most... Chillz. Marvin is actually a standstill midrange shooter. Period. It's sad that he has only shot 3 3pters this season and we are prolly the worst three point shooting team in the game. I believe that given the minutes, Chillz can outrebound Marvin if he's not doing so already.. I think you'd do better saying "Well, Chillz play better off the bench" Whatever the hell that means.. Marvin had to have stolen your woman. That's the only explanation for this continued stupidity. I ask for some proof to the claim that Marvin is better than Chillz and what do I get... Another personal attack? Figures... I mean if that's all you got, that's all you got huh teabag? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators AHF Posted December 17, 2007 Moderators Report Share Posted December 17, 2007 My view is that Marvin's first two years he had better potential than Chills but Chills was the better player on the floor. This year, Marvin has both the better play on the floor and the better long-term potential. Since Marvin is outperforming Childress on the floor this season, I voted for Marvin. Chills is still a quality player, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thesheedera Posted December 17, 2007 Report Share Posted December 17, 2007 Quote: Sheed you want us to give overwhelming credit for Marvin improving. Please show me one post when I EVER asked for anything approaching "overwhelming credit". Until you do so I'll ignore every post you make. It's not fun for me to discuss with someone who continues to put false words in my mouth. Not the first time you've done it, either. Pretty much a pattern. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
exodus Posted December 17, 2007 Author Report Share Posted December 17, 2007 Quote: You can only poll the Marvin fans and try to get them on your side. Busted. I can't believe you figured it out. I made the poll invisible to all the Childress fans but my cloaking mechanism obviously has no effect on Agendaman. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackB1 Posted December 17, 2007 Report Share Posted December 17, 2007 Marvin is more valuable to this team. We don't have many spot up catch and shoot guys like Marvin. Chills is a valuable 6th man, but not a starter IMO. Marvin is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheNorthCydeRises Posted December 17, 2007 Report Share Posted December 17, 2007 Quote: I think they are two different players and bring two different elements to the team. I agree. They are equal in my eyes right now. Marvin is the constant performer . . Chill is the energizer. They're like our version of Ford and Calderon. Two different styles, but almost equal impact on a game, if they both got equal minutes. It's a good luxury to have both Chill and Marvin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJlaysitup Posted December 17, 2007 Report Share Posted December 17, 2007 JC is a flawed BB player IMO. His release point is too low. Otherwise I like him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thesheedera Posted December 17, 2007 Report Share Posted December 17, 2007 I'm honestly shocked at the landslide in this poll. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cyman3 Posted December 17, 2007 Report Share Posted December 17, 2007 Quote: I'm honestly shocked at the landslide in this poll. yeah, same here! i voted EQUAL. as of right now, theres no CLEAR CUT winner. however, i do think MARVIN has more potential or the tools to become a better player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
exodus Posted December 17, 2007 Author Report Share Posted December 17, 2007 Quote: I'm honestly shocked at the landslide in this poll. Looks like Childress finally got his sympathy vote. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJlaysitup Posted December 17, 2007 Report Share Posted December 17, 2007 Quote: Quote: I'm honestly shocked at the landslide in this poll. yeah, same here! i voted EQUAL. as of right now, theres no CLEAR CUT winner. however, i do think MARVIN has more potential or the tools to become a better player. I think Marvin has the better tools....JC has the better work ethic. Neither of them will show out as a 2rd rounder....or 5th. -----pick I meant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators AHF Posted December 17, 2007 Moderators Report Share Posted December 17, 2007 Quote: Quote: Quote: I'm honestly shocked at the landslide in this poll. yeah, same here! i voted EQUAL. as of right now, theres no CLEAR CUT winner. however, i do think MARVIN has more potential or the tools to become a better player. I think Marvin has the better tools....JC has the better work ethic. Neither of them will show out as a 2rd rounder....or 5th. -----pick I meant. In fairness, Childress was the 6th pick (for whatever that is worth). On his good nights he is as good as his direct comparables - Iggy and Deng. He just doesn't seem to have the ability to take over a game like they do or have their tools. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bfwolf Posted December 18, 2007 Report Share Posted December 18, 2007 Quote: My view is that Marvin's first two years he had better potential than Chills but Chills was the better player on the floor. This year, Marvin has both the better play on the floor and the better long-term potential. Since Marvin is outperforming Childress on the floor this season, I voted for Marvin. Chills is still a quality player, though. Completely agree. I was one of the people saying Childress should be starting over Marvin at the beginning of the year, based on the way Childress outplayed Marvin last year. Clearly, that's now reversed and Marvin is the better player due to his significant improvement this year compared to Childress' very minor improvement (if at all). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Diesel Posted December 18, 2007 Premium Member Report Share Posted December 18, 2007 I took it upon myself to open this question up to others... Let's see what they say: Quote: PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2007 6:52 pm Post subject: Reply with quote Well, trade value is kind of relative. I'm a Jazz fan, and I'd prefer to trade for the do-it-all SG Childress than for the up-and-coming scoring forward Marvin since we need defence more than offence and our forward spots are locked up. But in general, Marvin is 3 years younger, is scoring and rebounding more, has more upside, and doesn't become a free agent in the offseason. If forced to answer in general terms, I'd probably say Marvin. enuggz Assistant GM Assistant GM PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2007 7:12 pm Post subject: Reply with quote I think Marvin will always have more value than Childress. As of today Childress is the better player but that "P" word will come into play for a few more seasons. xbl_sucks Moderator Moderator PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2007 7:19 pm Post subject: Reply with quote enuggz wrote: Quote: I think Marvin will always have more value than Childress. As of today Childress is the better player but that "P" word will come into play for a few more seasons. Perfect anwser. As for a Raptor stand point I think we would take Marvin Williams over Childress just becuase Marvin has the skillset to be a great rebounding 3 with shotblocking. He's very long and athletic and can get above the rim with the best of 'em. Just don't see what a potentail deal would look like unless we are sending Bargani or Calderon or Ford. In a thread a week or so ago a sugested a Ford for Marvin or Childress and Sheldon Williams deal but didn't get no feedback is it that bad for the Hawks? or Raptors? I think it balences out both teams as it gives the Hawks a true point. I bet I will here the Acie Law rule yet again though ecuhus1981 Real GM Real GM PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2007 7:38 pm Post subject: Reply with quote ^ Nah, that's not a bad trade, and I don't see Law having trouble finding minutes alongside Ford. It's really hard to gauge Ford's proper value, seeing as how he's only getting 25mpg in the TOR PG timeshare, and with his (ininsurable?) back issues. I'm not sure you'll find the best value for Ford from ATL... DGrangeRx33 Coach Coach Marvin IggyTheKing Real GM Real GM Marvin moocow007 Global Moderator Global Moderator PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2007 8:05 pm Post subject: conleyorbust Assistant GM Assistant GM Joined: 24 May 2007 Posts: 1775 PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2007 10:02 pm Post subject: Reply with quote I'm a Hawks fan so I've seen the progression from each of these players. Chil is a great player off the bench, or a good starter next to a really good scorer - you aren't going to find a better medium efficiency high volume scorer, but he isn't going to be too much better than what he is now. Marv is already catching him in terms of scoring efficiency but he is a better rebounder, he is more athletic, he is bigger, and he is younger. As far as defense goes, Chil is probably a better team defender but he gets beat one-on-one a little bit too much. Marv is very quick and has a 7'4 wingspan so he has evolved into a pretty good man defender. I'd take Marv now and in the future, even if Childress wasn't up for an extension. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thesheedera Posted December 18, 2007 Report Share Posted December 18, 2007 It's interesting to see what you chose to bold and what you chose not to. Here's what you chose not to: Quote: But in general, Marvin is 3 years younger, is scoring and rebounding more, has more upside, and doesn't become a free agent in the offseason. If forced to answer in general terms, I'd probably say Marvin. Quote: I think Marvin will always have more value than Childress. Quote: I think we would take Marvin Williams over Childress just becuase Marvin has the skillset to be a great rebounding 3 with shotblocking. He's very long and athletic and can get above the rim with the best of 'em. Quote: Marv is already catching him in terms of scoring efficiency but he is a better rebounder, he is more athletic, he is bigger, and he is younger. As far as defense goes, Chil is probably a better team defender but he gets beat one-on-one a little bit too much. Marv is very quick and has a 7'4 wingspan so he has evolved into a pretty good man defender. I'd take Marv now and in the future, even if Childress wasn't up for an extension. I agree with the last one especially. Marvin has been a better man-to-man defender this season - I honestly believe he's pushing Joe for the spot of the best man-to-man defender on the team right now as he seems more interested in defending throughout the game while Joe seems to lose interest at times. Smith is pretty inconsistent man-to-man, but his help D is phenomenal (making him the best defender in my opinion, despite his mistakes), Speedy's non existant, Acie hasn't played enough games healthy to really form an opinion, AJ has the effort and the smarts but his best years have passed him by and Al...well, Al's right up there too. If he were defending PFs only, he'd probably look like an excellent defender. The fact that he has to gurad bigger men so often makes it a little unfair to judge him, but I expect him to be a fantastic defensive presence for a long time. But Marvin's moving his feet better than ever on the ball (looks like the lateral quickness has gotten better) and he's getting a lot better at keeping his fouls in check as the season progresses. He's not a shut-down defender yet, but he is making a major impact. Another thing he's improved defensively is playing the passing lanes. He's deflecting more passes and grabbing more loose balls than in his first two seasons - some of that dirty work stuff that he got away from doing after college. He's finally putting those long arms and quickness to work out there, and it's resulting in more fast break opportunities. While those don't always show up in the boxscore, he's also getting more steals than he ever has. Marvin's help D on the perimeter is pretty solid and he usually at least gets a hand in the face of a shooter after the rotation. But his help D on the interior and on the baselines needs a LOT of improvement. This and rebounding are my current pet peeves with him. He HAS to get better at both, because those are areas that you hurt your team with inaction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TexasPete Posted December 18, 2007 Report Share Posted December 18, 2007 Marvin is certainly a very good man defender and he gets little credit for that... I was watching Carmelo play defense the other night against the Blazers. I did nothing but watch Melo play defense for half a quarter. I could not believe my eyes on how bad he was. Melo had no interest at all in playing D. On one play he lost his man totally and his man follow dunked. He had no energy and no intensity. If his man scored all he did was hustle back to get on offense. I bring this up because we are lucky to have two forwards who play defense. We take it for granted but defense is about character and desire. Both of our forwards take pride in playing both ends. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Diesel Posted December 18, 2007 Premium Member Report Share Posted December 18, 2007 Those speak to my point though. When people look at Marvin, what do they see... Do they see him as being better than Chillz right now?? Or do they see "that P Word"... Look at what you quoted... Quote: But in general, Marvin is 3 years younger, is scoring and rebounding more, has more upside, and doesn't become a free agent in the offseason. If forced to answer in general terms, I'd probably say Marvin. Quote: I think Marvin will always have more value than Childress. Value based on what? The same value that made him a 2nd pick over all... POTENTIAL.. Quote: Marv is already catching him in terms of scoring efficiency but he is a better rebounder, he is more athletic, he is bigger, and he is younger. As far as defense goes, Chil is probably a better team defender but he gets beat one-on-one a little bit too much. Marv is very quick and has a 7'4 wingspan so he has evolved into a pretty good man defender. I'd take Marv now and in the future, even if Childress wasn't up for an extensio You don't catch someone who you are ahead of Pete. You only catch someone when you're behind them... This poster said that he is catching. That means that he is in the process of catching Chillz.... That is to say that he's is behind Chillz... It's very simple Pete. People look at Marvin's Potential and his draft position when talking about his value or worth vs. other players. However, they all allude to the fact that right now.. this moment, Chillz is better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Diesel Posted December 18, 2007 Premium Member Report Share Posted December 18, 2007 You should go back and watch Marvin play defense... Try last nights game.. Especially in the fourth when AK keep getting wide open underneath for a dunk.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators AHF Posted December 18, 2007 Moderators Report Share Posted December 18, 2007 Quote: Especially in the fourth when AK keep getting wide open underneath for a dunk.. I assume you realize that Boozer and AK got a lot of open looks under the basket last night because we automatically rotated whenever Deron drove on the assumption that AJ could not stop him (which was nearly always right). Whatever forward was nearest was rotating over to take Deron and he was dishing to Boozer underneath or AK (underneath or cutting) when their defender came over to take him. Frankly, I am not sure why Utah didn't do this more since it was very effective. If you can't appreciate the game that Marvin had last night I don't know what to say, D. He was easily our best scorer through 3 quarters (and the only reason he wasn't the best was because JJ got all the gimme FTs down the stretch) and harassed AK into 5 turnovers, some of which were the team-leading three steals that Marvin generated. There was not much to dislike about Marvin's play last night. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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