Are we good?

[Peoriabird]

Quote:

---

I'm still not convinced about our team is all I'm saying. I love what's happening but I just can't get so excited about being in the 4th spot when we are two games out of the 7-8 spot. Let's see where we are in ten games.

---

You guys are so funning. You wouldn't recognize a good thing if it slapped you in the face! This is a very good defensive team and they show it night after night but the casual fan will never understand this! The Casual fan thinks offense, offense, offense! But the real fan knows that defense is the key. This is why half the board has no clue why the Hawks are winning now and that poll last week proved it!

[Final_quest]

Quote:

---

Quote:

---

I'm still not convinced about our team is all I'm saying. I love what's happening but I just can't get so excited about being in the 4th spot when we are two games out of the 7-8 spot. Let's see where we are in ten games.

---

You guys are so funning. You wouldn't recognize a good thing if it slapped you in the face! This is a very good defensive team and they show it night after night but the casual fan will never understand this! The Casual fan thinks offense, offense, offense! But the real fan knows that defense is the key. This is why half the board has no clue why the Hawks are winning now and that poll last week proved it!

---

What about my statement indicated I'm concerned about our offense? Aren't you the same guy that thought JJ sucked? So now you're an expert even though you thought our best player was ball hog trash. OK whatever man.

My only point is that after seven years of our team sucking, and I've seen the glass as half full the whole time. I'm a bit reserved about our formidable spot 5 games ahead of the 9th place team.

[AtLaS]

Quote:

---

No, we are not good, I said we were average unless a major lineup move happens and that move was AJ getting starters mins. We AJ getting starters mins we are now above average. Were not good but the East is weak. Injurys in East have hurt many mid level teams as well as just different chemistry in other lockerrooms such as New Jersey and Chicago. Detroit then Boston then rest of the conference.

---

Thanks for the analysis man! Thanks for taking the time out of your busy schedule to give us your personal input, I really appreciate it. Any news on when your latest scouting report will come out?!? Thanks again!

[TroyMcClure]

One is enough.

[Peoriabird]

Quote:

---

Aren't you the same guy that thought JJ sucked? So now you're an expert even though you thought our best player was ball hog trash.

---

No I said that he should pass the ball more especially when he is not hitting his shot and he has during the month of December. Learn to read please before you attack!

[Final_quest]

You are so ridiculous. You took every opportunity to trash Joe, and then come back and pretend like you were politely asking him to pass just a little more. You said it was an insult to compare Smoove to JJ, and now pretend like you knew he was our best player but were gently correcting him. That's pretty out there, but in addition to that you come on here and pretend you are this brilliant basketball mind that gets the game at a totally different level.

It's OK to be totally wrong and have JJ make you look like a fool because we as fans can get emotionally involved in this. But when you come onto a thread with this air that you have an understanding of the game that is so far above the average fan that just smacks of too much pretention for me.

[Peoriabird]

Quote:

---

It's OK to be totally wrong and have JJ make you look like a fool because we as fans can get emotionally involved in this. .

---

You are the ridiculous one. Joe was playing poorly in November. Not hitting his shots, taking double teams into the corner, turning the ball over, not passing the ball, not not getting to the line. All of his numbers were down in November and everyone wanted to blame Woodson or the lack of a point guard but that wasn't the case. It was Joe playing poorly just like Smoove was playing poorly in November! Both are playing much better and have been given the credit they deserve. Now, What in the H_ll are you talking about???

I don't hate Joe nor have I suggested that he should be traded rather that he start to play better and he has!!!! So I repeat...What in the H_ll is your problem?????

[TroyMcClure]

Quote:

---

Aren't you the same guy that thought JJ sucked?

---

No, he's the same guy that thought Joe was sucking. Which he was for a while. Do you think Joe hasn't had a coach in his ear telling him when he did something wrong? I swear, to hear many of you tell it, Joe is Bob Cousy, MJ, and Bill Russel combined. The man has flaws in his game. Does that mean I'm not happy to have him? C'mon! Why does the Joe conversation always turn so juvenile? Think about the words you are using. Trashed? Really? I would like to hear what you consider "trashing".

Quote:

---

but in addition to that you come on here and pretend you are this brilliant basketball mind that gets the game at a totally different level.

---

That's what you were just doing yourself. Without engaging in a legitimate debate about his game, to boot.

PB, myself and a few others have braved talking about Joe's lesser points. Virtually every time, someone says we are trashing him and the conversation goes completely away from basketball. That's what is ridiculous.

[Final_quest]

I read your posts again, and you were trashing Joe at every opportunity. If you want to pretend that you knew all along he was just going through a slump that's on you.

Do you also want to pretend that your previous post wasn't condescending? Like you realize what this team is about while everyone else is concerned about the offense. Like you have insight that the lowly average fan just can't grasp. Get over yourself.

[Peoriabird]

Quote:

---

I read your posts again, and you were trashing Joe at every opportunity. If you want to pretend that you knew all along he was just going through a slump that's on you.

---

It was more than just a slump! Joe was taking bad shots and a lot of them. He was turning the ball over and not playing a lot of defense! The thing that bother me the most was everybody other than Joe was being blamed for the Hawk's lack of success when it was Joe himself playing poorly. Joe is playing better now and is receiving almost no criticism! So what is the problem?

Quote:

---

Do you also want to pretend that your previous post wasn't condescending? Like you realize what this team is about while everyone else is concerned about the offense. Like you have insight that the lowly average fan just can't grasp. Get over yourself.

---

I'm sorry if I offended you but many poster that responded to that poll last week thought that individual players were the difference between November and December. Also most of the proposed trades on this site focus on improving our offense. The majority of poster felt that we need a Nash like point guard before we could win consistently which is obviously not true. I was just trying to reiterate that this is a team build to play defense and rebound. We are not the Phoenix Sun and will never be!

[Peoriabird]

Quote:

---

PB, myself and a few others have braved talking about Joe's lesser points. Virtually every time, someone says we are trashing him and the conversation goes completely away from basketball. That's what is ridiculous.

---

I haven't criticized Joe in weeks but I guess these guys have long memories! Thanks

[TheNorthCydeRises]

LOL . . you were talking bad about him last week. Be careful Peoria. Don't proclaim your innocence like Roger Clemens, knowing that you might be guilty of being a JJ hater.

[Peoriabird]

Quote:

---

LOL . . you were talking bad about him last week. Be careful Peoria. Don't proclaim your innocence like Roger Clemens, knowing that you might be guilty of being a JJ hater.

---

I guess this is talking bad about Joe

Quote:

---

Why is Joe taking all of those D_mn Shots???? Marvin, Horfort & Smith are 14-18 from the field and Joe is taking all of the shots!!! This is what bugs me about Joe Johnson.

---

I'm sorry, I'll never question a Joe Johnson decision again on this board since I detect some sensitivity!

[TheNorthCydeRises]

Quote:

---

I guess this is talking bad about Joe

Quote:

---

Why is Joe taking all of those D_mn Shots???? Marvin, Horfort & Smith are 14-18 from the field and Joe is taking all of the shots!!! This is what bugs me about Joe Johnson.

---

I'm sorry, I'll never question a Joe Johnson decision again on this board since I detect some sensitivity!

---

I'm just saying man. There's a mountain of evidece against you, when it comes to JJ. In that particular game, you were critcizing JJ for not passing, even though most of his misses that half, were shots he normally knocks down. And he had 5 assists that half as well, so it wasn't like he wasn't passing the ball.

I was going to post a thread on here right after the Detroit loss, that took a look at JJ's shooting in the first 21 games of this year and the first 21 games of last year.

I was going to break his shooting games into 5 categories:

50% + shooting

45% - less than 50% shooting

40% - less than 45% shooting

35% - less than 40% shooting

and less than 35% shooting

I don't have all the data in front of me, but I do remember some key findings.

JJ had 4 games in which he shot 50% or over this year. Last year in Nov/Dec, he had 13 games in which he shot over .500, which is flat out incredible for a jumpshooter.

He also had 4 games in which he shot less than 35% this year. Last year at this time, he only had 1 game like that.

The big difference between JJ this year and JJ last year, is that this year, he's had a ton of games in which he shot between 38% - 42% FG. That's your typical 8 - 21 . . . 10 - 23 . . . 7 - 18 type shootng games. Last year, those games would've been 11 - 21 . . . 12 - 23 . . . 8 - 18 shooting games.

I think the fan base had been spoiled by JJ's superman shooting last year. Most guards who have to create their own jumper, do great to shoot 44% - 45%. Most of your guards who create their own shot, routnely shoot in the low-40% range.

So for JJ to shoot 47% last year, was absolutey ridiculous. This year, he just shot like an average shooter, until like the past 6 games.

And go check his Nov - Dec numbers. There really isn't much difference in his numbers across the board. It's just that he's recently starting to become the steady mid-40% shooting version JJ of last year, instead of the stready low-40% shooting version JJ of this year.

All he needed was time to break out of his slump.

[Final_quest]

Quote:

---

Quote:

---

It's OK to be totally wrong and have JJ make you look like a fool because we as fans can get emotionally involved in this. .

---

What in the H_ll are you talking about???

---

I'm gonna list your quotes about JJ and you tell me how anyone can not interpret them as you dogging the guy.

Word for word what Peoriabird has written:

Quote:

---

Then please explain to me why our scoring average and shooting percentage went up the last month of the season last year over the team's seasonal average when Johnson didn't play one minute!

Yeah, that's what you want from the supposed team leader. Shoot a poor percentage and take more shots than the your hot shooting teammate! Brilliant!

Joe shouldn't be given the green light at all times because this year his judgment is off!

Quote:

If he plays at this level with consistancy then he may be on JJ's level.

Peoriabird: Don't insult Josh Smith like that

Joe will not be an all star this year! I guarantee you that!

This Sh_t is getting old with Joe. 2-7 already tonight

I just want the guy to hit at least half of his shots in a game at some point this season.

Joe another uncontested air ball!

joe johnson sucked the whole second half but hits winning shot! And even though he hit that shot, he was terrible. But they keep running plays for him and I don't understand it!!! And his defense is atrocious!!

Joe has stunk this year plain and simple!

Joe Johnson is not that good!!!! Joe Johnson holds the ball!!!! Joe Johnson takes a lot of unnecessary shot!!!! Joe johnson is not as smart as I thought he was. Childress was abusing Pargo in the second quarter. What happens when Joe comes back into the game? He starts that one on one sh_t in the corner again. Marvin was abusing Peja! What does Johnson do? Still raining bricks. Horford Taking his man down low! What does Johnson do? Build another house or start passing it to AJ to shoot outside shots.

People please stop covering for this guy like you did for josh Smith. You see how Smith made a conscious effort not to take bad shots and it wasn't because of BK,Woodson, different point guards or Marvin....It was because he is hopefully learning to play better. Now Joe you are next!!! Stop shooting so D_mn much Joe especially when you are off!!!!

Because our offense is run through him and he has the ball in his hands all of the time and shoots the most. If the offense ran through Marvin, he would be our leading scorer but it doesn't. 43% shooting is terrible! And it will be worse after tonight. There is nothing worse than having an inefficient volume shooter leading you team in scoring. It mean that you will have a lot of empty possession each night!

His performances last year won't help us win games this year!

We played without him last year and in April our scoring average were better!

---

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

You went on for weeks like a friggin baby about JJ, and in a lot of the threads people chastised you for overreacting. Now you want to play it off as if all you wanted was for him to shoot a little better. Yes, he was playing bad, but you can't even concede that you overreacted. Players go through slumps.

I'm not saying that JJ is a superstar, but all I said was that JJ punked you. You trash him for weeks then he wins player of the week. Do you still think our offense is better without him? You can't see how you should be eating your words, even a little?

Here is Atlantaholic's quote from a few weeks ago when JJ was playing bad directed at you:

“Obviously you are another irrational hawksquawk poster who basis his judgments on nothing but knee-jerk reactions. JJ has started off slow this year (He started off worse his first year with us), everyone agrees on this... yet you say that he played terrible today when he was one rebound away from a double double and scored five of our final 7 points including the game winner... that is not terrible.

You should relax and think for a minute or two before making your outlandish claims.”

Quote:

---

---

[TroyMcClure]

Thanks for the numbers. I think the thing here is that you're saying there is a natural ebb and flow that can't be avoided, correct? There will be slumps, etc. While Peoria is trying to actually break down what causes those things, I think. No one talks about that. Just stats and stuff. Like Joe's rock you to sleep pull up j that he hits about 10% of the time it seems. It's a garbage shot and there is never a pressing NEED to take it. It's just as bad as some things Smoove does. Having said that, do we have to keep saying that despite this and other flaws, he's still a very good player and we want him on the team. Do we really have to say that every time? If we don't, invariably someone says we are trashing Joe or something. It's just silly at times.

But hey, the team is playing steady basketball for the first time in years. There's not really much to be upset about. I hope this keeps up. We've all waited far too long.

[TroyMcClure]

Ok, quest. I guess this is a little bit of trashing by PB.

Quote:

---

And his defense is atrocious!!

Joe has stunk this year plain and simple!

---

Still, we all say things in the middle of or directly after a game, that upon further reflection, we might disagree with. Why does everyone want to "punk" someone so much? I don't get it.

[Final_quest]

For me it kind of snowballed. If I wasn't at home tonight while the wife has girls night out, I would never have been bored enough to post all this crap. Looking back in the thread what initially irked me was his first post where he put himself on a level above everyone else. He claimed that he had an understanding the casual fan didn't grasp.

That's why I brought up JJ. To me the casual fan overreacts when a good player goes into a slump, which is exactly what he did. When he had the audicity to claim that he never dogged JJ I had to call him on it. I'm not really out looking to punk people. PB is probably a great guy. I'm not taking anything he says personally, and hopefully he feels the same way.

[Peoriabird]

Quote:

---

For me it kind of snowballed. If I wasn't at home tonight while the wife has girls night out, I would never have been bored enough to post all this crap. Looking back in the thread what initially irked me was his first post where he put himself on a level above everyone else. He claimed that he had an understanding the casual fan didn't grasp.

That's why I brought up JJ. To me the casual fan overreacts when a good player goes into a slump, which is exactly what he did. When he had the audicity to claim that he never dogged JJ I had to call him on it. I'm not really out looking to punk people. PB is probably a great guy. I'm not taking anything he says personally, and hopefully he feels the same way.

---

On the Joe thing, I guess I was a little frustrated with him about how he called out the team after the great pre-season and then he proceeded to play poorly in the regular season. I'm over it now and he is playing better. We are all happy now. Sorry about the casual fan comment but it wasn't directed at anybody in particular certainly not you. There are a lot of very knowledgeable fans on this board that give me a tremendous amount of insight about basketball and you and Northcycle are 2 of them. So let us set the record straight, I enjoy watching the Hawks grow and get better right in front of our eyes. Joe is the best offensive player on our team and yes I was a little hostile toward him. But please don't peg me as a Diesel type poster who just waits for the opportunity to dog a Hawk player! If I'm even coming close to being like that, by all mean put me in check!

[AtLaS]

Quote:

---

If I'm even coming close to being like that, by all mean put me in check!

---

Will do! **Salutes**