Randy Moss should be MVP

[Diesel]

I keep hearing Brady this and Brady that...

However, the truth is Randy Moss.

Is there a QB that Moss hasn't made better... Ever?

I think Duante Culpepper needs to send Moss a thank you letter everytime he looks out at his "love Boat".

Randall Cunningham came back from his job of cleaning Pools to leading the Vikings to 15-1 season.

Now, it's Brady's turn.

For anyone who think it's not Moss... Ask yourself this:

If Moss was with Indy and Reggie Wayne was with the Pats...

Would:

Brady Be about to break Manning's records?

Would the Pats be undefeated?

Would Wes Welker be anything?

also:

How many touchdowns would Manning have thrown by now?

What would Indy's record be?

Somebody finally give Randy Moss his due... For what he's doing ON THE FIELD!

[Admin]

As much as I hate the Patriots and formerly thought very poorly of Randy Moss, I am very impressed with what he has done this year and how he has handled himself. He has proven that he is in a different league character wise than the guy he was always lumped in with TO. He has proven that winning is the most important thing and that he is the most physically dominant WR in the game, perhaps ever. I have gained much respect for him this year.

What you have to look at though is this. If you take Moss away from the Pats they still probably win the Super Bowl, although I doubt there offense is anywhere near as dominant. If you take Brady away from the Pats they may not even be a playoff team. I have gone back and forth on who the MVP should be this year and it all comes down to the debate of is the most dominant player automatically the MVP? To me Favre has been the most valuable player for his team, although they did look pretty solid with Rodgers in the 2nd half against the Cowgirls. When I have seen the Pats without Brady they look awful and maybe that's because their backup QB is junk but I think that's only a small part of it.

[Diesel]

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If you take Moss away from the Pats they still probably win the Super Bowl, although I doubt there offense is anywhere near as dominant. If you take Brady away from the Pats they may not even be a playoff team.

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I think you really have to rethink this. You take Moss away from the Pats... they have 4 losses already and they will be a solid playoff team but they won't win the playoffs.

If you take Brady away (depending on what you replace him with), they will still do well. Don't get me wrong, Brady is a very good QB. I have liked his strength.. reminds me of Favre in a way. BUT....The offensive game plan has to have good receivers to win. Who is the Pats running back? Nobody knows. What was Welker before Moss gets to town??

Last year, he caught 67 passes for a total of 687 yard. This year, he's a 1000 yard receiver...

Who is going to catch those 21 TDs that Moss has caught?

Stallworth? He'd be lucky to get 10!

It's not just me saying it, His career says it.

Moreover, Brady...

Doubles the number of TDs thrown last season.

Throws for more than 1000 more yards than he did last season

Throwing for more than 40 more yards per game than he ever did...

.

And you think that Moss has nothing to do with it?

Moss is the leagues MVP.

The falcons should have gotten him when they could!

[chillzatl]

I don't think Moss or Brady deserve the MVP. Moss might make QB's look better, but Brady is also making Moss look the best he ever has. So it's a wash. Both certainly deserve mention.

Would Brady be closing in on breaking Mannings record without Moss? Maybe.. it really depends on the quality of the WR there. They always have VERY GOOD players everywhere, they just don't usually have an individually great player like Moss. YOu put Marvin Harrison, TO, or any of the handful of truely great WR's in the game on that team and I think Brady would still be doing what he's doing.

Both Moss and Brady deserve recognition for what they've done, but neither deserve the MVP. Brady has never been on a bad team and has always had decent number, though never great. He didn't start putting up GREAT numbers until he got a team that is stacked top to bottom with a legit great WR to catch his passes. To me that's like giving Kevin Garnett the MVP because he finally got spreewell and Cassell on his team and made it to the WCF.

I say Favre, Romo or even Manning because of what he's been able to do with a beat up defense and his best WR down for significant time. I also expect the Colts to beat the Patriots in the playoffs.

[Admin]

There is no reason to rethink it. Brady has won without Moss for far longer than he has with him. Take a look at the Pats stats without Brady this year. It's a very small sample size, but when he isn't in the game they have been horrible. The first game against Miami when they were killing Miami they took Brady out and Miami immediately shut down the Pats offense, got back in the game, and Brady had to come back in ... at which point he promptly led them down the field for a TD.

Brady is the best player in the league this year, it's debatable whether he is the MVP or not. Moss is by far the best WR this year, but he isn't the MVP because the Pats would still win without him just as they have year after year. Certainly Favre or Manning would be MVP if not Brady.

[DrReality]

I agree with the disagree.

[Diesel]

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Moss might make QB's look better, but Brady is also making Moss look the best he ever has. So it's a wash. Both certainly deserve mention.

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Actually, statistically, Moss' best year was 2003...

However, I would say his really best year and team was 1998... When the Falcons upended the Vikings to go to the Superbowl!!!

DirtyBirds!

[Diesel]

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I say Favre, Romo or even Manning because of what he's been able to do with a beat up defense and his best WR down for significant time. I also expect the Colts to beat the Patriots in the playoffs.

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These other guys have great players surrounding them... Especially Manning... And I love Manning.

However, you put Moss in a place where he will never ever win the MVP.

That's basically what you're saying.

If Moss was in Atlanta, Catches 21 TDs. Atlanta goes 15-1...

You would then say that Joey Harrington nor Randy Moss deserves the MVP.

When you look at the Specialty positions of the Pats.

It's Randy Moss and Everybody else. It's proven because he's caught 21 TD while everybody else is 8 or 3. There's no real running game. Maroney has 789 yards on the season.

I would give Favre consideration because he doesn't have the name receivers... However, I don't think Favre's work trumps Moss' work. Donald Driver is no chump... I mean he's had what 6 to 7 1000 yard years? There's also Jennings and Jones.

But Romo? Come on, he has all the weapons in the world. So does Manning.

[Admin]

He has been surrounded by a crew of guys that most football fans have never even heard of for a good part of the season. Now he is getting Harrison back but there was a time when Harrison was out, Wayne was out, Gonzalez (who is decent but nothing special) was out, etc. and yet the Colts kept on scoring and kept on winning.

You need to read up on the Pats before you comment on them as well. Brady is surrounded with talented players. Not all world players, but guys who fit the system perfectly and it allows him to perform at his peak. You may not think highly of Wes Welker but he deserves to be in the pro bowl this year and if it wasn't for the old theory that you can't have 2 WRs from one team in the pro bowl he definitely would be. There isn't a better 3rd down WR in the game, not even close. Personally I can't stand Stallworth but there is no denying that he fits the offense very well with his ability to make guys miss and get yards after the catch. Most of his TDs have been on plays where he broke at least one tackle. Then you have Faulk who is a great 3rd down back and Maroney who I believe they have been resting for the playoffs and if you don't know how good that kid is you will see in the playoffs.

[Diesel]

So when Wes Welker was with YOUR BOYS, he deserved to be in the Allstar game??

The truth of the matter is this... Welker nor Stallworth are capable of carrying the offense of the Pats. IF there was no Moss on the Pats, this team would suck and these guys would be considered overrated second rate talent.

Let me put it this way.

IF the Falcons traded White for Welker... this past year... The Falcons win no more games than they have won. In fact, they may lose an extra game.

Welker is just a decent possession receiver.

Moss, however, is any type receiver you need. He can be the possession, he can be the big play, he can be the fly, he can be the skinny post, he can be the endzone jumper... In the History of football... There has been no other reciever who has been as versatile and dominate as Moss. And yes, that's including Rice, Largent, both Carters, Gault, and whoever else you want to name.

[TroyMcClure]

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The truth of the matter is this... Welker nor Stallworth are capable of carrying the offense of the Pats. IF there was no Moss on the Pats, this team would suck and these guys would be considered overrated second rate talent.

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That's just stupid. Suck? Really? The Patriots offensive numbers in the last 5 years speak for themselves.

Randy is certainly the difference between very good and greatest ever. That's a different argument, though. All Moss does is catch passes. He doesn't try hard on routes where he is a decoy and he doesn't block... at all! That's not an MVP. Now, Peyton delivering without Harrison, that's MVP worthy. No one expected that. He just had to deal with it.

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If Moss was with Indy and Reggie Wayne was with the Pats...

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Neither team would be as good, imo. The Pats needed a big play receiver. The Colts, especially with Marvin out, need consistent route running and blocking.

[Diesel]

Neither Welker nor Stallworth were on the team over the last 5 years.

Last year, they had a running game... Corey Dillion..

Not to mention that over the past 5 years, they've had better running and the likes of Givens, Branch, Smith, etc catching passes.

Welker nor Stallworth are feature receivers.

This is the first time in those 5 years where the Patroits' offense doesn't have it's share of troubles in the red zone. Note. Corey Dillion is not there to run it in. Moss has done what no other receiver in those 5 years could do. He has made the offense more lethal. Now, Watson can get more yards and more TDs because defenses has to plan for Moss. Now the other recievers Welker and Stallworth get better looks. Brady's greatness comes in his ability to check off his recievers quickly... BUT.. if there were no Moss, he'd lead the league in getting sacked!

[DrReality]

The NFL will NEVER give the MVP to Moss. Won't happen. His bad boy image is not what they want on their front page.

[TroyMcClure]

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BUT.. if there were no Moss, he'd lead the league in getting sacked!

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Again, diesel. That's just false. He has been the most protected qb I've ever seen outside of Kenny Stabler. With or without Moss. The numbers tell a different story than you do.

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Welker nor Stallworth are feature receivers.

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We could debate what a "feature" receiver is all day long. Billicheck traded for Welker because he single-handedly beat the Pats last year. He said they tried doubling him and everything and he was just basically a nightmare matchup because of his quickness.

Welker has over a hundred catches and is now the Pats all time single season leader. Now, that might not be a "feature" receiver, but he is a total nightmare underneath and that's what allows Moss to get up top so easily. Obviously, Moss allows for more underneath routes for others. When a team is functioning properly, each position feeds off of the other.

Billicheck could not devise a gameplan to stop Wes Welker! Feature receiver or not, only a few players could do that to The Hoodie.

[TroyMcClure]

He says Moss benefits from Welker more than Welker does from Moss. Not that that is the end all, but he is a soon to be HOF receiver. I think he may know a bit about what we are talking about.

[Diesel]

I don't think so.

If you watch the game.. It's very simple what happens.

On the deep outs and the deep posts, Moss pulls the safety with him. The tight end pulls the ILB with him on most plays. Welker has the opportunity to nickel and dime teams all down the field.

Remember, the Pats don't have a running game! I mean, they have a few running backs, but no 1000 yard rushing game that they can look to for game maintaince like NY did with Otis Anderson or Joe Morris.

So what the Pats do is they utilize possession recievers like Welker, Stallworth and the TE in a spread type game to work the field. If your feature reciever creates that much room to work, then winning is simply the byproduct. Just like when Rice was with the 49ers. He wasn't the deep threat but he was the guy who got the defense all stretched out because they knew that if he was allowed to catch the ball crossing the field that it didn't matter if you had Deion Sanders in his prime guarding him, Rice's pattern was going to kill you. That's really why the California offense worked (Air Coryell to be correct). In each case, it required a receiver who could bend the defense... and a QB who was quick on the check offs.

[Plainview1981]

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He has been surrounded by a crew of guys that most football fans have never even heard of for a good part of the season. Now he is getting Harrison back but there was a time when Harrison was out, Wayne was out, Gonzalez (who is decent but nothing special) was out, etc. and yet the Colts kept on scoring and kept on winning.

You need to read up on the Pats before you comment on them as well. Brady is surrounded with talented players. Not all world players, but guys who fit the system perfectly and it allows him to perform at his peak. You may not think highly of Wes Welker but he deserves to be in the pro bowl this year and if it wasn't for the old theory that you can't have 2 WRs from one team in the pro bowl he definitely would be. There isn't a better 3rd down WR in the game, not even close. Personally I can't stand Stallworth but there is no denying that he fits the offense very well with his ability to make guys miss and get yards after the catch. Most of his TDs have been on plays where he broke at least one tackle. Then you have Faulk who is a great 3rd down back and Maroney who I believe they have been resting for the playoffs and if you don't know how good that kid is you will see in the playoffs.

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Wes Welker is not that good. He obviously benefits from the attention Randy Moss gets and he only averages 10YPC anyway.

[Plainview1981]

If you take Moss away from the Pats they still probably win the Super Bowl"

They haven't won the SB yet and you can't be sure they would without Randy because they didn't do it last year. I know they would still have Stallworth, but he and Gaffney haven't developed all that much during their career and haven't been able stick with teams.

I suspect that NE might not win the Super Bowl this year. They looked like a sure bet at week 10, but that defense is downright terrible.

[Diesel]

If the Colts get Marvin Harrison Back... Expect the Colts to upend NE somewhere in the playoffs. Hell if Jacksonville get another shot at NE...

[TroyMcClure]

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If you watch the game.. It's very simple what happens.

On the deep outs and the deep posts, Moss pulls the safety with him. The tight end pulls the ILB with him on most plays.

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I watch a lot of games, diesel. I understand what you are saying, but... the Pats don't really use a tight end. As I was trying to explain to you, just yesterday, ironically, I saw Tim Brown breaking down a play where Welker made the safety commit on a post, thus freeing Moss for the go route. See, Diesel, that is exactly the opposite of what you were talking about. My point is that they both happen and you can't really say what is causing what sometimes. Seriously, has a team ever picked up the best deep threat and the best possession receiver in the same off-season and paired them with perhaps the greatest qb ever? I think it is obvious that they both benefit from each other.