Smoove's growth

[dalamchops]

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this is just not a good thread. Do you even watch the games?? Smith had absolutely ZERO inside game whatsoever last year. This year there are times when no one on the opponents team that can stop him, and that is his true peak.

I dont think you were referring to me on this one, moreso the original poster.

well, the entire thread is pointless, but most blame definitely on the OP. Thank god he's not the GM, cuz he'll just let JS walk while any team w/ enough cap would offer him plenty of money, because the talent is obviously there.

I knew the homers would come out and see this as an attack.

Why is it a pointless thread ? Can you honestly say Smith is playing up to his potential ? Do you ever see him box out ? How many times have you seen Smith fight a player for position before they have the ball when playing post defense ? You like his shot selection ? In Smith's 4th year do you not think he should have stopped some of these bad habits that are normally gone after your rookie or 2nd year ?

Guys come on now, I mentioned Smith improved post game if you read my post that began this thread, its in the 2nd paragraph. Yet several posters act like I am blind to that.

I never said Smith should walk in free agency either....... My only point was that his improvement as a player is beginning to stagnate under the current coaching staff. Sure Smith is to blame for his own play and poor decision(that goes without saying does it not ?). His bad decisions and poor shot selection is what is holding him back. I guess "The Truth" could not pick up that bad shot selection is part of shooting all those 3's while shooting only 25% from long range.

The point is not to get rid of Smith. It is to make Smith live up to his potentential so the Haws can live up to their potential. The 2nd best player on playoff team simply cannot make the same poor decisions on a nighty basis. I have seen no improvment in Smith decisions making and little improvement in his shot selection. I have seen no improvement on his position defense in the post and he rarlyboxes out. Those are things another coach coaching staff hopefully can change about Smith b/c he obviously tuned the current staff out.

I'm not picking on Smith. Smith has the ability to be a top 20 player in the NBA if he would wise up and make better decision. The wins will not start piling up until that happens.

actually you said that Smoove has reached his potential and he will not longer get any better in this system. And you can't really judge by just using one Nets game, JJ was guarding VC most of the night and he didn't do anything to stop him.

[JackB1]

The truth is that if we ever do get a quality #5 and Horf gets moved to his natural #4, we won't need Smoove. His talents would be better served in a trade for something else that is more needed on this team. His defense consists on blocking shots only. Why do you think the opposition gets layup after layup? We really need to improve our defense on this team. It's been apparant all season, but painfully obvious the past few weeks. I think at this point I would rather keep Marvin at the SF, move Al to PF and trade Smoove for a Center.

[exodus]

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The truth is that if we ever do get a quality #5 and Horf gets moved to his natural #4, we won't need Smoove.

That simply isn't true. There are 96 minutes available at the 4 and 5 spots. And getting a quality center isn't as easy as typing it on a message board. Most likely the best we can do is get a guy with size who has holes in his game.

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Why do you think the opposition gets layup after layup?

Because other guys are getting beat repeatedly. Sometimes Smith can stop them and sometimes he can't.

When we played Boston their coach made the comment that in the first half smith was disrupting their entire offense because they were afraid of getting their shots blocked.

Here lately Smith hasn't been going for blocks as much, especially early. Maybe his hand is still bothering him or maybe he is just worried about foul trouble.

The reality is that the Hawks give up 6 ppg less when Smith is playing.

http://www.82games.com/0708/07ATL11D.HTM

[dalamchops]

opponents have been getting layup after layup because no one else knows how to play D. How many times i see a player just stand and watch and not challenge people going up to the basket. It includes EVERYONE. Opposing players are not intimidated at all right now when they drive into the lane, they know that the hawks will just roll out the red carpet for them.

[Admin]

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I saw Smoove get beat off the dribble on NUMEROUS occasions during that game. He tried his patented let the guy get by and try to block the shot from behind technique on several occasions and got burned.

and that is exactly the difference between Smoove CAN'T defend 3's and has the ability to do so but doesn't. Anytime he has to guard someone on the perimeter that can dribble he tries that crap and I would say gets burned more often that not. I absolutely believe that he CAN defend 3's but he would have to actually commit to staying in front of his man and not want to block his shot. To me that is a problem obviously of his own but more so in the coaches for continuing to allow him to play like that.

[tomac]

@ Traceman & Coachx

You've got a point, but the majority of the game, RJ and VC were guarded by Joe & Marvin. They put up great numbers against these two. Josh was beat a few times by those guys. I'll be the first to admit that Josh has growing to do on both sides of the ball, but his #2 in blocks, #14 in steals, and # 29 in rebounding. He's by far the most intimidating defensive player we have. He continues to get better offensively year by year. He's only 22.

Numbers do not lie. The kid is getting better and honestly has a chance to become one of the best players in this franchise's history. I'm just trying to figure out why he gets hated on so much.

[Admin]

If he gets "hated" on it's because he can be a top 10 player in the league but he won't get that point until he matures his game and learns to play smarter. He routinely gets beat off of the dribble by players who aren't in his league of athleticism and it's because he relies on being able to block their shot from behind and it's not a strategy that anyone can employ on a regular basis and be successful especially since once his man gets by him it causes other players to rotate to help and leave their man. In the paint he can change games on both ends of the court but when he has to guard a man in space he has to learn to use his brain and stay in front of his man and not worry about the block. Once he matures and learns to do that there is no limit to how great of a player he can become.

Right now Marvin and Joe are by far our best perimeter defenders but Smoove has the ability to be as good as either of them. On the other hand neither Marvin nor Joe have the ability to defend in the paint like Smoove does. That's why Smoove gets "hated" on more than the other guys.

[D.R.P.]

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@ Traceman & Coachx

You've got a point, but the majority of the game, RJ and VC were guarded by Joe & Marvin. They put up great numbers against these two

. Josh was beat a few times by those guys. I'll be the first to admit that Josh has growing to do on both sides of the ball, but his #2 in blocks, #14 in steals, and # 29 in rebounding. He's by far the most intimidating defensive player we have. He continues to get better offensively year by year. He's only 22.

Numbers do not lie. The kid is getting better and honestly has a chance to become one of the best players in this franchise's history. I'm just trying to figure out why he gets hated on so much.

Um.... actually Childress played more minutes than Joe & Marvin.

[coachx]

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If he gets "hated" on it's because he can be a top 10 player in the league but he won't get that point until he matures his game and learns to play smarter. He routinely gets beat off of the dribble by players who aren't in his league of athleticism and it's because he relies on being able to block their shot from behind and it's not a strategy that anyone can employ on a regular basis and be successful especially since once his man gets by him it causes other players to rotate to help and leave their man. In the paint he can change games on both ends of the court but when he has to guard a man in space he has to learn to use his brain and stay in front of his man and not worry about the block. Once he matures and learns to do that there is no limit to how great of a player he can become.

Right now Marvin and Joe are by far our best perimeter defenders but Smoove has the ability to be as good as either of them. On the other hand neither Marvin nor Joe have the ability to defend in the paint like Smoove does. That's why Smoove gets "hated" on more than the other guys.

Well said, Traceman

[exodus]

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If he gets "hated" on it's because he can be a top 10 player in the league but he won't get that point until he matures his game and learns to play smarter. He routinely gets beat off of the dribble by players who aren't in his league of athleticism and it's because he relies on being able to block their shot from behind and it's not a strategy that anyone can employ on a regular basis and be successful especially since once his man gets by him it causes other players to rotate to help and leave their man. In the paint he can change games on both ends of the court but when he has to guard a man in space he has to learn to use his brain and stay in front of his man and not worry about the block. Once he matures and learns to do that there is no limit to how great of a player he can become.

Right now Marvin and Joe are by far our best perimeter defenders but Smoove has the ability to be as good as either of them. On the other hand neither Marvin nor Joe have the ability to defend in the paint like Smoove does. That's why Smoove gets "hated" on more than the other guys.

Well said, Traceman

[coachx]

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If he gets "hated" on it's because he can be a top 10 player in the league but he won't get that point until he matures his game and learns to play smarter. He routinely gets beat off of the dribble by players who aren't in his league of athleticism and it's because he relies on being able to block their shot from behind and it's not a strategy that anyone can employ on a regular basis and be successful especially since once his man gets by him it causes other players to rotate to help and leave their man. In the paint he can change games on both ends of the court but when he has to guard a man in space he has to learn to use his brain and stay in front of his man and not worry about the block. Once he matures and learns to do that there is no limit to how great of a player he can become.

Right now Marvin and Joe are by far our best perimeter defenders but Smoove has the ability to be as good as either of them. On the other hand neither Marvin nor Joe have the ability to defend in the paint like Smoove does. That's why Smoove gets "hated" on more than the other guys.

Well said, Traceman

I mean.......well said Dolfan.

[Traceman]

I want to see him sign a long extension this summer and be a part of bringing the franchise back to respectability. I think he has the potential to be a terrfic all around player if he focuses on the things he does well rather than trying to do too much.

As for him getting "hated on," EVERY player on this team has been hated on at times but there is a difference between pointing out legitimate flaws and hating.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

At the beginning of the season, my sig was this::

I want to see more SHAWN KEMP, and less RASHEED WALLACE, in Josh Smith this season

This thread is somewhat misguided, but I do understand some of the point of it. This is all about Smoove's mentality as a player. People earlier in the year were complaining about him not taking it hard to the hole and dunking on people, instead of shooting a lay-up. A guy like Kemp ALWAYS tried to dunk on you. He had a fierceness about his game that was undeniable and vry intimidating.

While Smoove does hustle his azz off a times, the reality is that he's just a little soft to be playing the 4. Kind of like Rashard Lewis. If Smoove had his preference, he'd much rather play like Lewis or Rasheed, than Kemp. The only time I see that Kemp-like fierceness, is when he gets going full steam ahead with a clear path to the rim. If he played like Kemp, we'd be a much more dangerous team.

Here's something that I rarely see from Smith. How many times has he caught an offensive rebound in the air, and dunked it all in one motion? You'd think with his athleticism, you'd see that a lot from him, but you don't. You don't see it because he rarely dives into the lane from the perimeter to grab an offensive rebound.

Diesel mentioned early in this season about Smoove's mindset being that of a true SF, and that he shouldn't be forced to play the 4.

The problem though, is that he can't get away with playing SF on the NBA level, unlike Horford can at center. Offensively and defensively, Smoove's much better off playing the 4. Because of that, his mindset must match his skill set as a player. Which means the kid needs to get tougher, more than anything else. That's going to be the one thing that separates him from being a good player, or a great player.

I always look at how Smoove is rebounding, to determine whether he's into a game or not. His rebounding is more important than his scoring. He grabbed 4 rebounds the other night. That just can't happen. He has the athleticism to be a consistent 10 - 12 rebound a night guy, even playing alongside Horford.

Having said all of this, there is NO WAY IN HELL YOU TRADE SMOOVE FOR SOME MEDIOCRE OR DEFENSIVE CENTER, just so Horford can play PF!!!

A Dalembert - Horford - Williams frontline will not ne better than a Horford - Smith - Williams frontline next year. PF might be Horford's best position, but he's more than proven that he can be more than effective playing center. And if he has to play it next year, he'll be even better. People talk about how Nellie would trade Biendrins for Smoove in a heartbeat, just think how Horford would look with the Warriors? They's probably give us Biendrins and a player like Harrington, if we were dumb enough to give them Horford.

The only feesible idea I'll give serious thought to, would be to not re-sign Smoove and possibly not even Childress, to go after Elton Brand. Having Brand and Horford at the 4 and 5 spots, would be a big time upgrade . . IF . . Brand can play at the level he was at before he ruptured his Achille's tendon. Now you're talking about a player who can score down on the block, or consitently knock down the mid rage jumper, while playing decent low post defense on people.

Bibby

JJ

Marvin

Brand

Horford

That's a POTENT and balanced lineup right there. That's the only feesible player I even think about moving Smoove for.

[exodus]

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This thread is somewhat misguided, but I do understand some of the point of it. This is all about Smoove's mentality as a player. People earlier in the year were complaining about him not taking it hard to the hole and dunking on people, instead of shooting a lay-up.

I agree that it is about his mentality but i disagree with your conclusion.

When Smith was a rookie he tried to dunk on EVERYONE. Every night he had a dunk on NBA.com's top 10 plays of the night like clockwork.

Then he won the dunk contest and, to him, people perceived him as just a dunker. Especially the last couple of years it seems like he is trying to do everything else except dunk.

Smith wants to be seen as an all around player which is good. It drives him to work on all aspects of his game. The problem is that he doesn't have the talent to be an all around player. He needs to temper his desire to be great with an acceptance of his limitations. he needs to realize that no matter how much work he puts in he won't be a good 3 point shooter or playmaker. he needs to leave that to the other guys and focus on the things he can do well.

[dalamchops]

Tell that to Al Harrington. I wonder how miserable you are in real life if you do not believe in hard work and perseverance.

[Kimsey]

Not to say this is right but what is the motivation to play "all out" right now.

1)He knows we don't have the pieces to make any meaningful playoff run right now until you get someone to defend the paint. He makes a little over 2 million right now.

2) God forbid he breaks a leg, foot, or rips some tendon in his leg he will be at the mercy of the Hawks contract wise. All he has to do is stay healthy until July-ish and he'll be guaranteed near max money but can you say that with a serious injury especially to his lower extremities.

If i'm his agent my message is "play hard but don't overly exert yourself until the contract dispute is resolved."

[exodus]

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Tell that to Al Harrington. I wonder how miserable you are in real life if you do not believe in hard work and perseverance.

'

That is a flat out stupid post. Where did i say i didn't believe in hard work?

What i said was that he needed to focus on the things that are in his wheelhouse. It makes no sense for Shaq to work on 20 footers.

Smith isn't going to be a great ball handler but he is constantly trying to go behind his back in traffic or throw no look passes which most of the time end up being turnovers.

Harrington didn't shoot 3s at all for years. He didn't start shooting them regularly until he could actually make them. Smith insists on shooting them even when it has been proven time and again that he can't make them.

I like the fact that Smith is willing to work on his game. That has shown in his post play that was non-existent last year. But he needs to focus his work on the right areas and 3 point shooting isn't one of them.

[exodus]

He is one of the worst in the league in 2 point jumpers.

http://www.82games.com/FGSORT7.HTM

He needs to learn to make 15 footers before he moves out to the 3 pt line. Harrington was a much better midrange shooter than Smith when he increased his range to the three point line.

[coachx]

I don't want to move Smoove either.......I just want him to play up to his potential by using some basketball IQ. Of course a Shawn Kemp mean streak would be nice too but I would settle for just some smarter play.

1. cut down on his turnovers by not dribbling so much and forcing tough passes

2. Stop with the poor shot slection

3. Play position defense in the post

4. keep your man in front of you on the perimeter instead of allowing a lay up for an attempted highlight reel block.

5. Box out to help rebounding consistency.

These are all very basic things a 4th year NBA player should be implementing by now. If the current staff can't imply these attributes to Smoove's game in 4 years then they never will. Hopefully the next coaching staff can.

[beenthere]

There is no question that Smoove is a player. The deeper question is how much is he worth paying, whether by the ASG or another team? I think that it's always good to develop your own players whenever possible, and Smoove is a fan favorite in spite of his ill advised shots now and then. I just wonder what kind of contract he gets in the off-season. Nothing binds a team more than making a mistake on a max contract if the player is not a max contract player.