Packaging Childress & Zaza.

[mrhonline]

With the rumored acquisition of David Andersen, I think Zaza's $ would be better spent elsewhere. I also think you could find a similarly useful player for the LLE, or whatever part of the MLE is left over by signing Andersen.

Childress is likely to receive an MLE-type offer, and I would certainly understand it if the Hawks match such an offer. However, I would certainly explore S&T deals, and I think the following teams would be interested:

LA Clippers (fits well with Thorton, and Chill is from Cali)

New Orleans (needs someone of Childress' offensive style)

Portland (needs a defensive wing)

San Antonio (we know they'd like Childress)

Toronto (needs a starting-caliber defensive wing)

Assuming Childress would make around $5.5M, thereby making him BYC, I was able to come up with the following offers for Zaza/Childress:

LA Clippers --> Maggette + Knight

They're likely to lose Maggette if they don't try to get something for him now, and trading him also allows more time for Thornton. Knight is easily replaceable, and I think they'll go young for a PG in the draft anyway.

Bibby/Law/Knight

JJ/West/

Maggette/Marvin

Smith/Jones

Horford/Andersen/?

New Orleans --> Peterson + Armstrong -or - Peterson + Pargo + future (lotto-protected) 1st

MoPete is getting older quickly, and moving him for Childress would be a coup on their part. So, Atlanta asks for Armstrong, a player who is blocked by West and Chandler. (Admittedly, I don't know if the Hornets would be willing to move Hilton, so I proposed an alternate deal). Zaza is a nice option off the bench for them IMO.

Bibby/Law/(Pargo)

JJ/West/

Marvin/MoPete

Smith/Andersen/Jones

Horford/(Armstrong)

Portland --> Joel P + Sergio R + Josh McR

Portland might be reluctant to move Joel P, but they get the SF they need, and it doesn't really cost them long-term. Sergio is given the chance to earn minutes he can't get in Portland.

Bibby/Law/Sergio

JJ/West

Marvin/J-Rich

Smith/Andersen/Jones

Horford/Joel P

San Antonio --> Oberto + Bonner + Udoka + future (lotto-protected) 1st

The Hawks would want to move Bonner immediately IMO, but Oberto easily replaces Zaza and adds toughness in the process. Udoka is a nice perimeter shooter.

Bibby/Law/?

JJ/West

Marvin/Udoka

Smith/Oberto/Bonner

Horford/Andersen

Toronto --> Parker + Graham + Baston + future (lotto-protected) 1st

The Raptors desperately need a defensive wing, and they get one in Childress. They give up a nice piece in Parker, but he is aging quickly, and is really a bench player at this point. Zaza's value is greater than the other two throw-ins, hence the future 1st.

Bibby/Law/?

JJ/Parker

Marvin/Graham

Smith/Baston

Horford/Andersen/?

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Rip away.

[NJHAWK]

Since Chills would have to be signed and traded he cant be traded with another Hawks player. Same deal for Smoove. I am almost 100% positive thats the way it works. I believe if signed long term Chills or Smoove could be traded around mid December with other HAwks players involved but not yet. Also if either of them decide to play for that 1 year qualifying offer so they can be unrestricted next year, then they cannot be traded until the end of next season and thats only if they agree to a sign and trdae as opposed to signing outright with another team, which leaves the Hawks with nothing.

[hussamga]

I think Julian Wright has emerged in the playoffs to be that childress like wing you talk of for New Orleans.

I think if we are gonna move anyone, we should go for the whopper over the jr. cheeseburger.

[Diesel]

You can't package a SNT player.

[Admin]

Yes you can. We had this discussion this weekend and the Bulls did it with Eddy Curry and Antonio Davis.

[DrReality]

I like the Spurs deal, but they'd never do it. Too smart.

[Diesel]

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Yes you can. We had this discussion this weekend and the Bulls did it with Eddy Curry and Antonio Davis.

That's one of about 100 SNT that had a packaged player. I think the rules were bent.. I think they were bent because Davis had just become president of the players Union and everybody looked the other way. But previously and since, there have been no packages in SNT.

[Admin]

You honestly believe that they changed the rule for one trade and then changed it back? Wow!

[cowa]

Wasn't the packaging of a S&T the whole reason that Chicago was able to attempt to package PJ Brown for variuos high salary players last year (even though it never happened)? And what about Keith Van Horn in the Jason Kidd deal?

It is very difficult to orchestrate such a trade, but as far as I know, you absolutely can package a S&T player in a deal.

[coachx]

some good ideas in there.

I like the Blazers deal the most and like the Clippers deal too.

In my mind Pryzbilla is the ideal defensive center to give us some defensive presence off the bench. He is in his prime at 28. (Supposedly he had a rift with BK for low balling him but now that BK is gone maybe it could happen.) Sergio could come in and give JJ some much needed rest. Sergio and Law could open up a Bibby trade at the deadline.....Or we just let Bibby walk and use the cap space to keep the core intact long term. (I don't see the Blazer moving Sergio, they would probably try to push Webster on us.

Joel Pryzibilla and David Anderson would be some nice options to have off the bench. If Anderson is the real deal he may even start C (in a perfect dream world) allowing Horford to start at PF and, with Anderson's shooting ability, Smoove could start at SF. I am getting way ahead of myself there.

I like the Clippers deal in the short term. Maggatee (Sp ?) would be a nice one year player to try and make a run with and then it leaves salary cap flexibility with Bibby, Marvin, and Maggette all expiring together. The problem is that Maggetee is a me guy and not a we guy, if you know what I mean. If he would come in and embrace a 6th man role it would be beautiful. He would be the one closing out most games at SF as Marvin watches from the bench. Knight is a nice insurance policy.....maybe the best 3rd string PG in the league under that scenerio.

Chillz is a good garbage player but I don't want to over pay him. Wings grow on trees. Any time you can move a wing and stiff for a servicable defensive center (Pryzibilla) ,who is only 28, you do it. Especially when you have NO servicable true center on the roster.

[Diesel]

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Wasn't the packaging of a S&T the whole reason that Chicago was able to attempt to package PJ Brown for variuos high salary players last year (even though it never happened)? And what about Keith Van Horn in the Jason Kidd deal?

It is very difficult to orchestrate such a trade, but as far as I know, you absolutely can package a S&T player in a deal.

KVH and Kidd were not sign and trades. KVH was sitting out getting paid. Kidd was under contract. It was a midseason trade.

As far as I know, PJ Brown wasn't used as a SNT to get anybody?

[Diesel]

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You honestly believe that they changed the rule for one trade and then changed it back? Wow!

PUT it like this.

I know 100% that before that AD/Curry trade that it was NOT possible to package players with a SNT. Maybe under the latest CBA... that changed.. however I don't remember reading about a change in the SNT rules.

[coachx]

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Wasn't the packaging of a S&T the whole reason that Chicago was able to attempt to package PJ Brown for variuos high salary players last year (even though it never happened)? And what about Keith Van Horn in the Jason Kidd deal?

It is very difficult to orchestrate such a trade, but as far as I know, you absolutely can package a S&T player in a deal.

KVH and Kidd were not sign and trades. KVH was sitting out getting paid. Kidd was under contract. It was a midseason trade.

As far as I know, PJ Brown wasn't used as a SNT to get anybody?

I thought KVH came out of retirement, signed a contract to facillitate the trade, and then chose to sit out after Stern allowed him to sit out.

If that is not a sign and trade then what is ?

How did we get JJ ? He was a RFA and we traded for him. Why can't a similar trade happen with Chillz ?

[Diesel]

From the latest CBA....

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H. Trade Rules

# A traded player may be “simultaneously” replaced (i.e., in the same transaction) by one or more players whose salaries in the aggregate do not exceed 125% of the salary of the players being traded, plus $100,000 (In the previous deal, the figure was 115% of the salary, plus $100,000).

# “Sign-and-trade” rules remain unchanged.

# If a team trades a player and the player is subsequently waived by the assignee team, the assignor team will not be permitted to sign the player to a new contract (or claim him off of waivers) until at least 30 days have passed following the date the trade was made (or 20 days for trades that occur during the off-season).

# A draft rookie may not be traded until 30 days following the date on which his contract is signed. Other players remain subject to the rule providing that they may not be traded before the later of (i) three months following the signing of the contract or (ii) December 15.

# A player signed to a one-year contract who would be a Bird or Early Bird player at the conclusion of his contract cannot be traded without the player’s consent. If the player consents and is traded, he will lose whatever “Bird” rights he has acquired (i.e., he will be considered to have moved to the new team as a free agent). (The rule prohibiting such players from being traded has been eliminated.)

# Base Year Compensation rules remain unchanged, except that a player’s Base Year Compensation will expire on the later of (i) the June 30 following the date the Base Year goes into effect, or (ii) six months following the date the Base Year goes into effect.

I've have gone through the original CBA.

Original CBA

Nothing is mentioned of the Sign-and-trade.

So I don't know.

[Diesel]

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Wasn't the packaging of a S&T the whole reason that Chicago was able to attempt to package PJ Brown for variuos high salary players last year (even though it never happened)? And what about Keith Van Horn in the Jason Kidd deal?

It is very difficult to orchestrate such a trade, but as far as I know, you absolutely can package a S&T player in a deal.

KVH and Kidd were not sign and trades. KVH was sitting out getting paid. Kidd was under contract. It was a midseason trade.

As far as I know, PJ Brown wasn't used as a SNT to get anybody?

I thought KVH came out of retirement, signed a contract to facillitate the trade, and then chose to sit out after Stern allowed him to sit out.

If that is not a sign and trade then what is ?

How did we get JJ ? He was a RFA and we traded for him. Why can't a similar trade happen with Chillz ?

Well, KVH never retired officially, otherwise Dallas would not have had his rights. Still he did SNT. I don't know how this is working but for years, SNT couldn't be packaged. Now all the sudden it can be. It wasn't agreed to on the 2005 CBA so it must have been added during a summer meeting or something.

[cowa]

Getting back to the original post idea, I think another idea is to move Zaza alone to Utah for Jarron Collins (bum) and Morris Almond. Zaza is certainly an upgrade over Collins, that would probably be a nice fit as a back up to Okur. Plus, he's an expiring contract. Collins is also an expiring deal, but at $2.1 compared to Zaza's $4.0. Almond is overkill for Utah when they traded for Korver, and they already have CJ Miles and Brewer. Almond is a long range shooter (and that's it), but he's on a low paying rookie contract and is the type of 3 shooter we need (if he doesn't get sent down to the D League like this year). this is a low risk deal, that could pay off big if Almond can hit his shots. Plus, he's not the defensive liability that Salim is, as Almond is 6'6". And lastly, Collins has 6 fouls to give every night!