Gotta give it to Danny Ainge

[sturt]

Who reported that D'Antoni squashed a KG trade? How can one distinguish what Kerr wanted to do versus what D'Antoni wanted to do? Did I miss something???

[jhay610]

Rather than rehash what has already been said I would just suggest you read AHF and dlpin posts in this thread.

The trades were not "gifts" as you said. They were legitimate deals. The Gasol deal was more of a "gift" than any the Celts pulled off.

The Celts made a decision to try to win right now and it worked. The Hawks are in a position to be more successful 3 years from now than the Celts, but the Celts got their Chip to validate their "win now" moves. A similar situation can be referenced with the Shaq trade and the Heat a couple years ago.

I think the "everyone that doesnt agree with you is a hater" comment is unfair. There are some people who are so bitter about other people's success that they are not capable of an objective assessment. You seem to be one of these people.

I hate the C's as much as anyone but I am not so blind that I cannot recognize good work or congratulate for a job well-done.

The most talented team does not always win. The Celts had a great record against the West all year and completely dismantled the best team to come out of that conference, so the fact that they came out of the East is mostly inconsequential to me.

[dlpin]

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Who reported that D'Antoni squashed a KG trade? How can one distinguish what Kerr wanted to do versus what D'Antoni wanted to do? Did I miss something???

Didnt say it was D'antoni who squashed the trade, sorry if it was unclear. When I said keeping Amare and D'antoni happy, the "not including Amare in a trade" was a part of the keeping Amare happy (as was trading Marion later). The "keeping d'antoni happy" was the hiring of Jay Humphries instead of Thibodeau. In any case, I would imagine that since it was kerr that initiated the Shaq trade for defensive reasons (although D'antoni reportedly signed off on it), and that Amare is the opposite of KG in that he is an offensive force but a defensive liability, that D'antoni would probably prefer Amare over KG. Not sure how Kerr felt about it, but it certainly looks like they messed up.

[exodus]

Kerr made it clear last summer that Amare would not be traded.

[Plastic Man]

I'm not bitter or a hater. I'm just calling it like I see it. McHale is still a Celtic and will be for life. Minny got nothing of value besides Al Jefferson; Celts even got rid of some "headaches" in Gerald Green and Telfair. The thing that bothers me most is Pierce. I followed the Celtics all last season and he didn't even earn a paycheck. Sulking and sitting out games for no reason. Total lack of heart, leadership and effort. Throw in 2 all-stars, get rid of some young guns taking away his shot attempts, and he's ready to play defense every night and run "his team".

This board has always over-valued Gasol. He is a regualr season stat sheet stuffer and that's where it ends. He's weak on both ends. The Lakers DID actually make out on that deal, but Gasoft is nowhere near the impact player of KG or even Ray Ray. Yet they made the Finals without Bynum! That's more impressive to me than what the Celtics did (and I'm not even close to being a Lakers fan).

[jhay610]

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The thing that bothers me most is Pierce. I followed the Celtics all last season and he didn't even earn a paycheck. Sulking and sitting out games for no reason. Total lack of heart, leadership and effort.

I don't like Pierce either, but to play devil's advocate, if you were entering the twilight of your career after a decade of giving your best to a franchise that didn't seem capable/committed to winning, it would be hard to keep a good attitude. I know these guys are paid professionals, but they are also ballers at heart and want to win.

There is a long list of disgruntled stars that wanted out of a given situation due to conflicts with the front office. Good example of that would be on the opponent's sideline in Kobe Bryant.

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Throw in 2 all-stars, get rid of some young guns taking away his shot attempts, and he's ready to play defense every night and run "his team".

I think Pierce showed he didn't mind giving up some shots, it was just a matter of who was taking them. To his credit, he played big when it mattered most and he outplayed Kobe flat-out, in my opinion. I understand his supporting cast was a lot better than Kobe's but he did the things his team needed to win, which was D up and get clutch buckets. If a guy comes up big in those moments I can cut him some slack for sulking in game 64 of a 25 win season.

[AHF]

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Oh, and I had forgotten about rondo...

Flockin Rondo....AHF has to be Dancin on the Ceiling !! UK fella done good.

His line of something like 20 points, 8 assists, 7 rebounds, 6 steals and 1 turnover is pretty impressive. It would have been nice to have him but I do think he would struggle more here without the veteran talent surrounding him in Boston.

He was definitely underrated in the draft - much like his HS teammate Josh Smith!

[EazyRoc]

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I'm not bitter or a hater. I'm just calling it like I see it. McHale is still a Celtic and will be for life.

Minny got nothing of value besides Al Jefferson;

Celts even got rid of some "headaches" in Gerald Green and Telfair. The thing that bothers me most is Pierce. I followed the Celtics all last season and he didn't even earn a paycheck. Sulking and sitting out games for no reason. Total lack of heart, leadership and effort. Throw in 2 all-stars, get rid of some young guns taking away his shot attempts, and he's ready to play defense every night and run "his team".

This board has always over-valued Gasol. He is a regualr season stat sheet stuffer and that's where it ends. He's weak on both ends. The Lakers DID actually make out on that deal,

but Gasoft is nowhere near the impact player of KG or even Ray Ray. Yet they made the Finals without Bynum! That's more impressive to me than what the Celtics did (and I'm not even close to being a Lakers fan).

Minnesota got a young big man, who put up like 21/13 last year. Not only do they get an All-Star quality big to replace KG, they get 3 players (Telfair, Gomes, and Ratliff) just to add depth to their team. Even if those players don't work out, they still were able to draft in the Top 10, and get Corey Brewer. If that isn't enough for you..the Celtics even gave them CASH. The trade was a win-win situation for both sides, and I think this is a great example of when a trade works out for both teams.

I also think adding Gasol to the Lakers is the reason that they went to the finals. You take Gasol and Bynum away from the Lakers, and they would not have made it as far as they have. He may not have had the impact KG had for the Celtics, but he definately had more impact than Ray had for the Celtics. Not to mention he was much cheaper.

I also think it's quite clear that you, my friend, are a Celtics hater. You knock Paul Pierce by not jumping for joy on a 25 loss team, and knock him when he becomes more of a team player and even deals with the fact that the Celtics have a new "franchise player" in KG. I personally do not like Paul Pierce, but he's a player that gave up a lot in order to win a championship. He's been in the backseat to KG all season long, after being the only thing worth talking about in Boston for years. How can honestly put more weight on a team with the best player in the league, a skilled 7 footer, and a bevy of shooters losing and then turn around and refuse to give the C's their credit from mortgaging their future (Most teams are too afraid to gamble like Ainge did) and trade away all their young depth to bring in 2 players that made their team a championship-winning team ? I don't know if you are or not, but you sound like a hater me..

[jhay610]

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Yet they made the Finals without Bynum! That's

more impressive to me than what the Celtics did

(and I'm not even close to being a Lakers fan).

What would it have taken from the Celtics to impress you? Beat the Lakers by 60?

[Plastic Man]

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Yet they made the Finals without Bynum! That's

more impressive to me than what the Celtics did

(and I'm not even close to being a Lakers fan).

What would it have taken from the Celtics to impress you? Beat the Lakers by 60?

Well, at LEAST they could have swept us or not let it go to 7 games! Or are we really that good?

Winning by 60 means no more than winning by 1.

[Diesel]

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Ainge was given gifts from McHale and Seattle. The rest isn't even possible without those gifts.

The #5 pick in the draft for Ray Allen was not a gift, IMO. That was a fine deal for Seattle.

The KG deal is more questionable but isn't as terrible as people make it out. Minnesota got a lottery pick (their own) and a 20/10 guy in Al Jefferson. That isn't in the same ballpark as a deal like Gasol or Vince Carter, in my opinion.

When the Braves traded Adam Wainright for JD Drew, Drew went on a tear for Atlanta and that trade looked pretty good. It looks pretty craptastic now.

As time goes on, it will be seen that Ainge morgaged the future of the Celtics for these 2008 championship rings. The question to be answered is this. At the end of their contracts, will the work that KG and Allen have done make Boston a better FA haven? If it does, then Ainge is a genius. If Ainge cannot parlay this into a place where FAs want to go, then Ainge is a failure.

[jhay610]

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Well, at LEAST they could have swept us or not let it go to 7 games!

They were in control of every series and only threatened by the Cavs.

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Or are we really that good?

I don't know. This line of thinking would suggest that we are better than the Lakers and Pistons....do you think we are better than the Lakers and Pistons?

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Winning by 60 means no more than winning by 1.

That's just not true. We, and to a greater degree the Lakers, got flat-out embarrassed by the Celtics on a national stage. Losing by 30+ points is humiliating. It means you shouldn't be on the floor with the other team. I've played in games where my team lost by 1 and where I lost by 30. It definitely feels a lot worse to lose by 30.

It was obvious Phil was embarrassed in his post-game interviews.

[Plastic Man]

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Minnesota got a young big man, who put up like 21/13 last year. Not only do they get an All-Star quality big to replace KG, they get 3 players (Telfair, Gomes, and Ratliff) just to add depth to their team. Even if those players don't work out, they still were able to draft in the Top 10, and get Corey Brewer.

Good one. Those players are average at best including Brewer who makes Chillz look fat.

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I also think adding Gasol to the Lakers is the reason that they went to the finals. You take Gasol and Bynum away from the Lakers, and they would not have made it as far as they have. He may not have had the impact KG had for the Celtics, but he definately had more impact than Ray had for the Celtics. Not to mention he was much cheaper.

Hilarious. Ray Allen is among the top 3pt shooters of all time. Jeff Green will never even be able to pick up Ray Ray's jock. After the top 3 picks in the draft the talent declined heavily. Delonte had been terribly inconsistent and unproductive Wally had a bloated contract through the '09 season.

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I also think it's quite clear that you, my friend, are a Celtics hater. You knock Paul Pierce by not jumping for joy on a 25 loss team, and knock him when he becomes more of a team player and even deals with the fact that the Celtics have a new "franchise player" in KG. I personally do not like Paul Pierce, but he's a player that gave up a lot in order to win a championship.

If I'm a hater then you must be Ainge's nephew from Tenn. You had me ROFL when I read Pierce "gave up alot". Like what? KG himself said it was still Paula's team. I didn't realize we had so many closet Celtics fans on the 'squawk. DJ you are not alone!

[exodus]

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As time goes on, it will be seen that Ainge morgaged the future of the Celtics for these 2008 championship rings. The question to be answered is this. At the end of their contracts, will the work that KG and Allen have done make Boston a better FA haven? If it does, then Ainge is a genius. If Ainge cannot parlay this into a place where FAs want to go,

then Ainge is a failure.

How can you be a failure if you turn a crap team into a champ in one year? The goal in the NBA is to win a title. There is no way he can be considered a failure regardless of what happens next.

[Plastic Man]

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They were in control of every series

Only at home.

I know we're not as good as Pistons/Lakers.

A win is a win. It appeared the Lakers conceded at halftime so I don't put too much weight on the margin of victory.

[Diesel]

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As time goes on, it will be seen that Ainge morgaged the future of the Celtics for these 2008 championship rings. The question to be answered is this. At the end of their contracts, will the work that KG and Allen have done make Boston a better FA haven? If it does, then Ainge is a genius. If Ainge cannot parlay this into a place where FAs want to go,

then Ainge is a failure.

How can you be a failure if you turn a crap team into a champ in one year? The goal in the NBA is to win a title. There is no way he can be considered a failure regardless of what happens next.

Do you remember the Florida Marlins Championship??

Case Closed!

[exodus]

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As time goes on, it will be seen that Ainge morgaged the future of the Celtics for these 2008 championship rings. The question to be answered is this. At the end of their contracts, will the work that KG and Allen have done make Boston a better FA haven? If it does, then Ainge is a genius. If Ainge cannot parlay this into a place where FAs want to go,

then Ainge is a failure.

How can you be a failure if you turn a crap team into a champ in one year? The goal in the NBA is to win a title. There is no way he can be considered a failure regardless of what happens next.

Do you remember the Florida Marlins Championship??

Case Closed!

That was a totally different scenario. The owners wouldn't pay the players so the players split. That isn't the case here. The Boston owners don't mind paying the luxury tax.

Talk about a reach.

[Diesel]

I'm laughing at you.

It's not a reach. It's exactly as I said... Allen is not getting another contract. KG might get one more. However, the ability to pull in FAs is what will make or break the Celtics.

The Celtics can be the Florida Marlins of Basketball

or

They can be the Atlanta Braves of Basketball.

People will respect them more if they remain in the championship picture.

Keep Squirming.

[exodus]

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People will respect them more if they remain in the championship picture.

That surely is true but the bottom line is that they won a title and Ainge won executive of the year. There is nothing that can happen from here that would cause Ainge to be seen as a failure.

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It's not a reach.

it is a total reach. The Marlins didn't collapse because of their GM. Nobody sees the Marlins GM as a failure.

That is just nuts.

[Diesel]

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People will respect them more if they remain in the championship picture.

That surely is true but the bottom line is that they won a title and Ainge won executive of the year. There is nothing that can happen from here that would cause Ainge to be seen as a failure.

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It's not a reach.

it is a total reach. The Marlins didn't collapse because of their GM. Nobody sees the Marlins GM as a failure.

That is just nuts.

Just like the Marlins. The Celtics "Paid" for a championship. What the Celts do from here on will define what type of move it was. Winning one championship isn't enough anymore. It hasn't been since Pat Riley said "we're going to repeat". Since that time, it's been all about who can sustain.

That's why Detroit gets more respect than Miami when both of them only has one championship in the last 10 years. In fact, the way that Dallas is falling off lately, people are saying that Miami won on a fluke. The same will happen with the Celtics if they don't show that they can be a consistent part of the championship picture.

Do I need to close the case any more??