everyone calm down... hawks could make playoffs!

[cyman3]

No, this wasnt a dream... just give me 5 minutes to preach

we need to calm down- especially hotlantadude and diesel

if u guys want a CHAMPIONSHIP TITLE this year, yes i agree wth u guys- thats not going to happen... but if we lower our goals a tad bit and just aim for the playoffs, thats very possible. from there we can do other things, but til then just aim for the playoffs.

- i think we can all agree without ANY ARGUEMENT once so ever that these teams will make the playoffs since they are wellrounded for an eastern team

1)New Jersey

2)Detroit

3)Indiana

4)Philly

- some may argue, but the majority agrees these teams will be in the playoffs...

5)Orlando

6)Boston

7)New Orleans

there is 1 spot wideopen for ANY EASTERN yes... yes i said it, ANY EASTERN TEAM. If James doesnt go through any rookie-slumps (which is rare for rookies his age) and Big Z stays healthy... they can compete night in and night out. Toronto still has a guy name Vince Carter. Chicago has mediocre talent in all positions. Washington got Arenas but subtracted MJ. Milwaukee has the best rookie PG prospect since Jason Kidd. New York still has one of the best shooters in the NBA. And then theres us... anything can happen in the EAST.

that 1 spot is WIDE OPEN...

if we aim for that goal instead of winning a championship, i think we can do it... miracles do happen- remember those notalent MAGIC that finished the season .500 led by nonamed players like Armstrong/Wallace (before they became known).

Coach + Heart + Chemistry can gets us there...

[Diesel]

1)New Jersey

2)Detroit

3)Indiana

4)Philly

- some may argue, but the majority agrees these teams will be in the playoffs...

5)Orlando

6)Boston

7)New Orleans

As it stand now this is your list....

I disagree about N.O. but let's start here:

First off...in the run for the 8th spot I have about 4 teams better than US.

1. Milwaukee. Stotts will probably be their coach. They will have a starting 5 of:

Ford/Redd/Mason/Toni/ & Smith... With Haslip/Gadzurich/Mason/Thomas/Pryz/Stricklan off the bench.

2. Chicago. First off, Pippen has never missed the playoffs. I don't expect him to now:

Crawford/Rose/Pippen/Marshall/Curry should win a lot of games.

3. NY. Likem or not:

Vranes/Houston/Van Horn/Sweetney/Thomas will outphysical a lot of teams.

4. Cleveland. How can you not like Silas.

It's hard to say what will happen. But he has some blue collar folks in Cleveland.

Ollie/James/Davis/Boozer/Big Z...

with their blue collar bench, these guys will win some games that people won't expect.

The problem. We lack Scoring. We have NO bench. iF things remain the same, we will be pitiful.

[KB21]

I guess Jason Terry and Shareef Abdur-Rahim are two bit, mediocre NBA players. How else can a person think a Milwaukee team with a rookie PG that can't shoot, a first year starting shooting guard, an underachieving small forward, and absolutely nothing in the paint is better than the Hawks?

TJ Ford, Michael Redd, Tim Thomas, Joe Smith, and Dan Gadzuric better than Jason Terry, Stephen Jackson, Boris Diaw, Shareef Abdur-Rahim, and Theo Ratliff. Diesel, you lost your credibility long ago. This is one reason why.

And somehow Cleveland is now better than us, but you said they would be better than us last year as well. Let's see what they have. LeBron James. If he gets 13 points a game this season, he's having a good season. They don't have a starting caliber point guard. DaJaun Wagner, one of your favorite players, will be the bust I expected him to be. Darius Miles is nothing. Carlos Boozer is a solid player as is Zydrunas Ilgauskas. Paul Silas is a great coach, but even he can't make chicken salad out of chicken [censored].

You don't even have the starters on the New York team right. They could be a player if McDyesse is healthy, but only if McDyesse is healthy. Without him, they won't challenge because they did downgrade themselves with the addition of Keith Van Horn.

The proper order of the Eastern Conference:

01. New Jersey Nets

02. Detroit Pistons

03. Indiana Pacers

04. Orlando Magic

05. Boston Celtics

06. Philadelphia 76ers

07. New Orleans Hornets

08. Chicago Bulls

09. Atlanta Hawks

10. New York Knicks

11. Toronto Raptors

12. Miami Heat

13. Washington Wizards

14. Milwaukee Bucks

15. Cleveland Cavaliers

[Hawksman]

If we play with heart, we can make it to the playoffs. Anything can happen. Every year, no matter what players we have, I think we can make the playoffs and beyond.

[cyman3]

A)take Milwaukee out!!!

- if Jason Kidd (ROY) couldnt take the MAVS to the playoffs in his rookie year (when the west was weak- MJ ruled the east)... how u expect TJ FORD to do it???

last year they had RAY ALLEN/GARY PAYTON and they got into that 8th spot... now they dont have either one. Take out Cassell as well. I believe Redd is their best player now... i'll take SAR/TERRY over any 2 bucks players...

2)"First off, Pippen has never missed the playoffs."

- neither has MICHAEL JORDAN til he got to a new team... c'mon Diesel! Pippen is a leader and does play defense, but hes not the same Pippen that gives u 20 ppg...

3)NY- honestly, i like NY's chances the most. If McDysse is healthy- man o man... could be harder than i expected. If not, we can compete with them- it should be a good match.

4)Cleveland- its VERY HARD for a rookie PG-SF to take the worse basketball team into the playoffs the next year. especially a highschooler.

Im all up for COMPETITION, im not saying we're a SHOE-IN for the 8th spot. it will take work. but dont count our season just yet... we could squeeze right in.

LOL- thinkin about it... wats a great way to bring publicity/media back to ATL HAWKS? Beating the NJ in the first round, now that would be some $hit!!! I bet ESPN would call JT a PG now if that happened... lol

[Diesel]

Pride bet KB.

JT vs. Ford IN the art of PGing by midseason.

Jt has had 4 yrs to learn. Ford as you said is a rookie. However, by Midseason, I bet Ford becomes a MUCH better Floor general than JT. This is not about just stats... This is about leading his team...

Put up or shut up KB.

[KB21]

It's an aimless bet, because there is no tangible way of proving it. Wins and losses don't determine who is the better player, because wins and losses aren't about one player. It's about a team.

However, the only tangible way to evaluate a player, individually, is by the statistics. You, wanting to throw the statistics out, want to base this strictly on opinion. It's a bet where no one can win.

Here's a bet that can be won.

At mid-season, Jason Terry's efficiency rating (which takes into account everything) will be higher than TJ Ford's. Efficiency takes into account scoring, rebounding, assists, free throw attempts, field goal attempts, turnovers, steals, and missed shots.

What do you say?

[cyman3]

this should be interesting...

i too am pulling for JT (assuming we resign him).

[Diesel]

Kidd or Marbury?

Do you lean on Statistics to answer this question KB? Statistically, I think Marbury beats the pants off of Kidd. I mean Kidd only leads Marbury statistically in Assists by a small margin.

However, when you watch the games, Kidd is always a candidate for MVP because he knows how to make those around him BETTER. So what might be 12 points, 8 assists, 5 rebounds in the boxscore for Kidd could be one of the most dominant performances ever put up by a PG...

You see KB, that's why you actually have to watch the games. Those Numbers don't really tell the whole story. I know they might not pipe Cable down there to backwood Mississippi. I know in the middle of your rotations, all you really get to see is JT's box score. However, for those of us who actually watch the games, we see JT not being effective as a PG. We see him missing passes and throwing the ball to players in the wrong position. We see the lack of playmaking. We see him acting like a SG most of the time. When I determined for the 3rd time that it wasn't the system, I had to be honest... It's JT. He's not a PG. We will go through coach after Coach, but the truth is that JT simply doesn't not manage an offense well. It's evident that he doesn't. It's evident because we draft a NON shooting complimentary player and we leave a guy like Josh Howard for Dallas to get.

[cyman3]

- ur still stuck in the 80s. In the 80s u had players like:

A)PG- the best passer on the team. Should be an above-average defender and at least decent at stealing. Not a reboundin/blockin threat at all. Not really concerned with shooting but should be an above average shooter, one that can hit the WIDE OPEN shot but doesnt create for himself since hes busy creating for 4 other players. This guy is also one of the better free throw shooters on the team, but not the best.

B)SG- the best shooter on the team. U get ur team lined up to take 100 shots from the perimeter and this guy will make the most out of everyone. Can flat out shoot! Best FT shooter on the team. More focused on shootin than passin but if hes doubled, should make the wise decision. Not very good defender.

C)SF- player that is average at everything- passing/defense/scoring. Isint great at anything but is decent in almost all areas. Usually guards the other guys SG and plays most of the perimeter defense.

D)PF- ur scorer in the POST. Ur best inside presence. Good to Great rebounder and scorer. Plays average defense in the post.

E)C- ur blocker and rebounder. more focused on the defense aspects of a BIG MAN, while he can get some points here and there.

--------------------------------------------------------

there u have it... the traditional BASKETBALL TEAM.

But guess what DIESEL???

times have changed. the game of basketball has changed. Crazy things are happening- PGs are one of the biggest threats. U have SFs that are rebounding better than Centers. U have some PFs that shoot 3s and prefers to stay in the perimeter (like Dirk) and then u have some PFs that cant hit a single shot outside 10 feet (A Stoudemire). u have a 6'1" PG that is better at attacking the lane than shooting in the perimeter (JKidd/Iverson).

I know u consider JASON TERRY a very good basketball player but u dont want him cuz he doesnt have that courtvision? And u dont want him cuz other players of his talent are gettin paid around 8-10 million a year and u dont like that.

how come it never occurred to u that JT's WEAKNESS could be covered with a SG or SF that is very strong in that particular weakness? Why not go with a TONI KUKOC type player at SF?

u're not accepting JT cuz of his 1 weakness. Would u not want Shaq cuz of his FT weakness? c'mon, a BASKETBALL PLAYER is a BASKETBALL PLAYER.

These days, players are labelled according to HEIGHT. If u watch Kevin Garnett play, hes clearly a SF. He can go either in or out but usually stays in between. He defends well, does all the little things. But because hes 7 ft tall he has to play PF here and there.

if all the other SGs in this league was 7 ft tall, then Dirk would be a SG. Iverson is a SG but thats where his strengths are played at its best. Theres PFs playing as Center.

the GAME is changing... all because u dont see JT doing PG duties and since u agree that hes a gifted scorer... why not bring in a guy that can cover JTs weaknesses?

---------------------------------------------------------

i remember reading this once... it went something like this

"The best coach is the coach that can TAKE THE BEST QUALITIES out of his players and use their gifts to the MAX, wins the championship"

take the LAKERS for instance. Shaqs weakness = outside shooting + Free throws... so who got his back? ROBERT HORRY (well used to). And that team became very successful. Robert Horry isint much of an inside threat, but who got his back? Shaq!

im not the best when it comes to explaining my thoughts the way i want them to be EXPRESSED, but i think u get my point...

1)Cover JTs weakness with a SG/SF thats has JT's weaknesses as his strengths. If that dude lacks scoring, its OKAY cuz JT got his back.

2)Get a coach that brings the best out of his players...

[Diesel]

KB says the best way to evaluate a player is by Statistics...

Then who is the better PG... Kidd or Marbury.

I want to see some Hypocrisy on our road to the truth.

As for your post Cyman.... Please. I recognize what you may call diversity and versatility... I also recognize the breakdown of fundamentals too. If you were a Historian of Basketball you would realize that nothing ever really goes away... It just recycles. Shaq wasn't the first dominant C. Kidd isn't the last pure PG. JT isn't the first SG trapped in a PGs body.

BUT... for every flaw, a team has to have something to cover that flaw. IN Philly, Snow plays alongside Iverson to help cover his lack of size.

Here, we have Nothing for JT. And we still have nothing. we've tried Toni and Email, however, this past season we found that when there's no help for JT, he makes everyone around him bad. My question is how much longer will we go on with this???

Here's a quote from KB on the Hawks problems taken earlier this year.

In reply to:

---

The lack of a floor leader.

It kills us offensively because we can't get into a structured offensive set without someone that can iniate the offense, and there is no one that elevates the games of those around them, which would help defensively.

It's that simple.

If you put Jason Kidd with this team, they would be tons better. Look at Kidd's Nets. He's raised the level of a bunch of average players around him (Kenyon Martin is only slightly above average). He has no go-to scorer, so not only has he made himself the distributor on the team, but he's their lead scorer as well.

---

It's funny to see the hypocrisy of You and KB....

You know that JT is horrid at being a floor leader.. Yet you say... Aw it's alright... Let's keep him and pay him 9.17 million per year to do the same s it he's been doing! Namely, filling up his stat sheet while the team suffers on.

-Yea Cyman....The game is changing... I can see all those flawed PGs making it to the NBA finals!

[cyman3]

"I can see all those flawed PGs making it to the NBA finals!"

- Fisher is prob one of THE WORSE starting PGs in this league but he is a GOOD ROLE player for the Lakers. Lakers play within TRIANGLE (flow of motion and passing) SYSTEM and play hard defense. Every one of the starters (except shaq) can hit a perimeter shot when open- in general of course and all of them play stellar defense.

C'mon they play a halfcourt game... if JT was there, nobody would complain about his game at all.

Fisher isint exactly pushing the ball and passing to the right guys and they won several championships...

Nets' jason kidd is the best point guard in the NBA, and does he have a RING? Did john stockton ever get a ring?

-----------------------------------------------------

"Then who is the better PG... Kidd or Marbury." (statistically speaking)....

the answer to that question.

Kidd - 18.7 ppg, .414 fg%, .341 3pt%, 6.3 rpg, 8.9 apg, 2.24 spg, .31 bpg, 3.70 tpg (turnovers) in 37.4 mpg

Marbury- 22.3 ppg, .439 fg%, .301 3pt%, 3.2 rpg, 8.1 apg, 1.33 spg, .25 bpg, 3.25 tpg, in 40 minutes..

i know u want me to stay STATISTICALLY MARBURY is better so u can continue with ur preachin... but is it better?

some statistics that stand out

1)Marbury scores 3-4 ppg more

2)Kidd shoots better 3pt % by a bit (not big difference but enuf to stand out)

3)More steals/blocks/rebounds (doubles the rebounds)

EFF RATE: kidd = 22.81, marbury = 20.21

so statistically, KIDD IS BETTER.... and truthfully, KIDD IS BETTER... and according to record, KIDD IS BETTER... and impact on team, KIDD IS BETTER.

[Diesel]

My point is Statistics don't tell it all.

Statistically, Marbury s better on many accounts. Scoring, FG%, etc. I can say the same about Steve Francis.

However, Neither of those guys will be competing for a championship because neither of those guys make the players around them BETTER.

JKidd Does. That's something the statistics won't show... How J Kidd makes them better even if he doesn't get an assist out of it.

JTerry is good at padding the stats. I mean, when you play for a nonwinning team it's easier to pad the stats. BUT JTerry doesn't make anybody around him better.

[Kaviar]

Cleveland has nothing to worry about this year, the Hawks are the compost of the basketball world! I hope you don't have the fantasies about your future patients that you have for your basketball team.

Miles has gained bulk and will play some PF this year and will benefit from guidance/instruction for the first time in his career. Wagner has everyone in the NBA drooling over potential, ask Mike Glenn, now unlike Terry he will not have to play PG because of the addition of James. With the addition of Ollie and Bremer they now have ballhandling capability that was lacking. The Hawks will be warm-up games for the Cavs this year.

The only thing worth keeping up with is this site, needless to say your basketball team is comatose, your just in denial.

[Playmaker0017]

Kaviar,

Wow! You must be one of the many who have their tongue deposited striaght into and up the back door of one "Lebron James".

The Cavs have a year or two before they should succeed. James is still too young to save them.

If he does much in this league this year, I'll be suprised.

Play.

[cyman3]

so according to u... "JTerry is good at padding the stats"

but when it comes to GROB, he did more than stats.. rite? lol

Statistically, KIDD IS BETTER!

[Kaviar]

Look Playmaker, I would love to be a Hawks fan because I do have roots in Atlanta. But, the sad fact is, for a number of reasons this team has become plankton in the NBA's food chain. I do not want to get into the reasons why, but you folks are in an illusion if you think otherwise.

I know it's tough when your at the bottom and you see other teams below you suddenly pass you by. The Cavs have blown by you, that is for certain. It happened by luck (Stern's luck) more than for any other reason.

My advise to the Hawks org. is to get the right front office in place now and do not make any further moves until major contracts start falling off two years from now. Until then, keep this site open and root for someone that is rising.

[Diesel]

In reply to:

---

so according to u... "JTerry is good at padding the stats"

but when it comes to GROB, he did more than stats.. rite? lol

---

Well let's see.

Grob has made of career of putting up 20/6... He's been an Allstar 2 times, and he's been to the Eastern Conference Finals..

Where has JTbeen?

Oh Yeah, on a 30 something win team....

[Playmaker0017]

Kaviar,

I'm impressed ... you used plankton in a sentence. Impressive.

Anyhow, I agree. The Cavs are better than the Hawks. No question. But, not enormously so right now.

No one really passed us by so much as we continually shoot ourselves in the foot. P

Play.

[Playmaker0017]

Diesel,

"Grob has made of career of putting up 20/6... He's been an Allstar 2 times, and he's been to the Eastern Conference Finals.. "

Come on, you are better than this. I mean, I know you lost your hat somewhere in Big Dog's bottom, but come on.

All-star voting? So what?! They voted in MJ the year he was hurt. They vote in Grant Hill who didn't do anything. Vince Carter?? Please... getting voted in is a popularity contest. Heck, Big Dog had the same stats this year and didn't get voted in. It isn't all about skill as much as who you are and where you play.

As for being in the Eastern Conference Finals... oh boy! He did it alone, did he? All by himself... we shouldn't have let him go. If he can play 5 on 1 and still win, he's got my vote for that All-Star game thing. JT hasn't had a good team and a good coach... I mean, I am not a huge JT fan, but lets be honest... it takes a WHOLE team ... clicking together... to get there.

Reef is 10 times the player that Big Dog is. But, he hasn't been to the playoffs. Luc Longley is 10 times worse than Big Dog, but has more rings than fingers.

Play.