What happends if Smith only takes a 1 year deal...

[ATLBob]

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Al is a proven winner, he has an incredible attitude, he has a high basketball IQ, he is bigger, he is stronger and he is more fundamentally sound. Those are all plusses I would give him over Smoove.

Al had a lot of turnovers last year but most of them were TOs that he committed while trying to do the right thing. He has shown the ability to learn from his mistakes and he doesn't keep making the same mistakes over and over again. His game is not nearly as flashy and he is not going to make nearly as many highlight reel plays and he is not going to fill the stat sheet like Smoove does but at the end of the day, I can see why a GM would think that his overall steady contributions outweigh the great plays Smoove makes that are somewhat mitigated by the bonehead mistakes he makes.

All that said, this was a "who would you RATHER have discussion" when the thread started and not a "we need to move one or the other" discussion. I agree 100% that BOTH are keepers. I would contine to start them both up front and find a defensive Center (Kwame Brown?) to compliment what Zaza does off the bench. I also think Smoove can play SOME SF in certain situations but unless we get Okur from UT (or the like), I think we are MUCH better off with him playing PF most of the time.

Damn nice post.

[Traceman]

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I think ex' summed it up pretty well. Smith is on the perimeter in certain sets but

you make it seem like the guy shoots below 40%

, most of the time when Chil is in the game, Smith stands on the perimeter because there isn't really another way of doing it.

He DOES shoot below 40% from the perimeter. SIGNIFICANTLY below.

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Horford is a better jump shooter which is great for him but as you point out, he isn't as good of an inside scorer.

Smoove was 59% on dunks and layups versus Horford's 58% so yes, Smoove IS better but not THAT much better.

I agree with you that Al was somewhat TO prone but a lot of that is being a rookie. I think he will get SIGNIFICANTLY better with regard to protecting the ball. He had a TERRIFIC 2/1 A/TO ration in the playoffs.

I agree with you 100% that Smoove should not be considered expendable because Al will be better. I don't think they are even remotely the same type of player and both bring a lot to the table. I think there IS PLENTY of room for them to co-exist and I hope they will both be here for a long time.

[ATLBob]

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he isn't as good of an inside scorer.

I think that if we keep them together, while stylistically different, they're both gonna be absolutely scary. Offensively we're set on the interior, IF they develop as much as I think they will, esp Horf.

That's why we need to focus on acquiring a defense-oriented big for depth. Kwame Brown should be a very attractive option for Sund (Isn't he from St. Mary's? Cool town), given that he is still young enough to suddenly become a late-bloomer. Will he ever do it? Maybe not, but wouldn't he come closest coming back down to his GA roots, getting comfortable again.

Rookie Kwame:

"Brown does not mean to sound ungrateful or even indifferent about his first season in the NBA. Still, it was a very, very long summer. "I'll tell you this, if you're doing it for the money, the mental stress is absolutely not worth it -- you'd be much better off being a regular Tom, d*ck or Joe," says Brown, who will make $11.9 million over the next three years. "I can say now that I don't ever want to be Michael. He has a lot of money, but he has no freedom. He can never say, 'Oh, honey, we're out of bacon, I'll get it.' He can't really do anything."

WashPost on Kwame

And this:

"For the 19-year-old from the small town of Brunswick, Ga., it was overwhelming, although it turned out to be just practice for when the national media came calling. With Shaquille O'Neal and Kobe Bryant off celebrating their second NBA title and Jordan still saying he was "99.9 percent certain" he would stay in retirement, magazines, television shows and newspapers all clamored to Brown, cutting and snipping tiny little corners of him, until his agent eventually began to fear there would be nothing left."

There aren't talent problems with Brown ... so lets roll the dice.

Given the lucky scenario where we can compete financially, that is.

And yes, I realize that that could prove difficult, to say the least.

[DawsonsCreek]

Can we figure out something involving Marvin for Bierdens? You want to talk about running, scoring, boarding and blocking shots, that front line is it. I know some folks arent high on Bierdens, but I think he would complement AL and Smith.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

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Take it this way-

If you have to win a game RIGHT NOW, and have to choose, do you put in Smoove or Big Al?

Case closed.

(Its obvious, right?

)

Hell no it isn't obvious.

If we're playing Golden St or Phoenix, I want Smith.

If we're playing Detroit or Boston, I want Horford.

[exodus]

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Take it this way-

If you have to win a game RIGHT NOW, and have to choose, do you put in Smoove or Big Al?

Case closed.

(Its obvious, right?

)

Hell no it isn't obvious.

If we're playing Golden St or Phoenix, I want Smith.

If we're playing Detroit or Boston, I want Horford.

Yeah i am sure Horford would have no problem guarding KG.

Did you forget what happened when we played them the first time and Woody (in his infinite wisdom) put Horford on KG? KG was 12 of 16 from the field with 19 rebounds.

Fortunately Woody had the sense to put Smith on KG for the playoffs.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

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1)Horford is a superior rebounder.

2) Horford is a better shooter beyond dunks and layups. Period. Horford shot 44% on shots from 3-15 ft and 36% on shots beyond 15 feet but inside the 3 pt line. Smoove shot 27% on shots from 3-15 ft and 30% on shots beyond 15 feet but inside the 3 pt line. But that doesn't even tell the whole story regarding how much better of a shooter that Horford is. According to the "Hotspots" data at nba.com, Horford shot 44% or better from 5 of the 8 hotspots inside the 3pt line (excluding dunks and layups). Conversely, 37% was the HIGHEST percentage that Smoove shot from ANY of the 8 hot spots.

3) Horford doesn't turn the ball over as much as Smoove. Al turned it over too much but he still only averaged 1.7 TOs per game AS A ROOKIE versus Smoove's 3 TOs per game as a 4th year player. In the playoffs, when the pressure and the spotlight were on, he played 40 mpg and averaged only 2 TOs per game while averaging nearly 4 apg. Conversely, Smoove played 34 mpg in the playoffs and averaged nearly 4 TOs per game and only 3 apg.

All that said, some things are not quantifiable but they are pretty obvious and they have value. Things like "BB IQ", "boneheadedness," attitude and "proven winner" fit into that category.

I think ex' summed it up pretty well. Smith is on the perimeter in certain sets but you make it seem like the guy shoots below 40%, most of the time when Chil is in the game, Smith stands on the perimeter because there isn't really another way of doing it.

Horford is a better jump shooter which is great for him but as you point out, he isn't as good of an inside scorer.

On TOs: Smith's turnovers have increased with his offensive responsibility. He makes too many stupid mistakes but Al hasn't been asked to do much on offense so assuming he would be any better is folly when he is also turnover prone given the lack of defensive attention he recieves.

Look, the only reason I want to point this out is that there are people on this board who seem to take the approach that "Smith can leave because we have Al and he is going to be better anyway".

I tend to think they complement eachother fairly well but if we lost Smith, we'd be losing a big chunk of production that wouldn't be replaced by Al or any other player very easily.

People must have me on "ignore", because I constantly give a breakdown of Smith's shooting to illustrate why he should almost exclusively play on the inside.

I think I saw on 82games.com where Smith committed almost 120 bad pass turnovers, which easily led the Hawks. As much as JJ turns the ball over trying to pass out of a double team, he still had less than a 100 bad pass turnovers.

It's Horford's toughness that has people believing that if it came down to it, they'd rather have Horford. And frankly, it's not Smith's offense that we'd miss, because I think multiple people on this team could make up for the offense.

Smith's value to the Hawks is defensively, and that's where we'd miss him the most. His shot blocking and even the mere threat of the shot block, scares the hell out of some players, especially the guards. That's why people talk about getting a defensive center so much. If we were to lose Smith, we'd definitely need an intimidator in the paint.