What happends if Smith only takes a 1 year deal...

[Traceman]

Chillz' PER was higher than JJ's last year. Does that mean that Chillz is EVEN CLOSE to the player that JJ is?

I agree that the age difference certainly makes a difference and that should be taken into consideration. Again, I think Smoove is better now too BUT I think it is certainly debatable as to who will be the better player as soon as this upcoming season.

[HawkNJersey]

I'm pretty sure I never used that word to describe the AL vs Smooth talk. Al played 3 years of college, compared to Smoove's none. I would hope that AL would be more effective as a rookie. My whole point is...Smoove's performance thus far is factual and AL's future performance is of opinion. And if we are to give Al the benefit of potential...we should do the same for Smoove, who just happens to be he same age as AL.

[DawsonsCreek]

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ridicululous to say that you would keep Al over Smoove. In fact, I would bet that a SIGNIFICANT number of GMs in the league would take Al over Smoove RIGHT NOW. GM's value potential and while Smoove was more productive LAST year, Al was a FAR better rookie than Smoove was. It's not even close. Right now, Smoove is better than Durant too but I'll bet you that OKC wouldn't even THINK about trading Durant to us for Smoove.

It is okay to disagree but calling it RIDICULOUS is way off base in my opinion.

I said it was ridiculous to imply that Smith is expendable because we have Al. As far as a "far better rookie", well there is certainly the age difference but I'd advise you to look at your stats; Smith scored at a higher rate and was already getting more FTs, he had fewer boards obviously but twice as many blocks, more assists and the same amount of TOs.

Saying "far better" is a bit hyperbolic when Smith actually had a better PER...

Again, to say Al will be better in the future is fair but to say he is better now is wrong.

I dont remember the conversation of we have to let smith go cause we have AL. The question was which One would u rather have right now and I said AL. Alot of you said Smith and thats your opinions. Hell what would have happend if I said Marvin lol

[crimedog]

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Chillz' PER was higher than JJ's last year. Does that mean that Chillz is EVEN CLOSE to the player that JJ is?

I agree that the age difference certainly makes a difference and that should be taken into consideration. Again, I think Smoove is better now too BUT I think it is certainly debatable as to who will be the better player as soon as this upcoming season.

Sure its flawed as hell but you said "Al was a FAR better rookie than Smoove was" and then said it wasn't even close. That is just not true when the only thing he did better was rebound even though Smith was 3 years younger.

There is not reason to think Horford will eclipse Smith in the very near future. Maybe in another two years but there is a fairly big difference in their roles on the team and Smith is still improving.

[DawsonsCreek]

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But yet shooting 50 percent in the nba while starting at center averaging double figure points (while boarding double digits) is EASY,

Averaging 10 ppg shooting 50% while being constantly unguarded from 15 feet is much easier than averaging 18 shooting 46% while going up against the best interior defenders on the opposing teams.

It wasn't Horford who dropped 56 pts shooting 57% against the DPOY in games 3 & 4.

Horford is very turnover prone considering how little he actually does with the ball. For his first few weeks of the season he had more turnovers than field goals.

The reason Al is the 4th or 5th option on offense is because his offensive ability isn't as good as 4 or 5 other players.

It also wasn't Al who turned the ball over 15 times in the last 3 games against Boston or went 4 for 13, 3 for 8, or 3 for 11 either. With those kinda numbers maybe we should have reconsidered the 4th and 5th offensive options.

Horford can't even beat Big Z off the dribble. How can he be anything other than the 4th or 5th option?

Put KG on Horford and Perkins on Smith and what happens? Smith abuses Perkins off the dribble while Horford gets maybe 6-7 ppg if he's lucky.

Woulda, Coulda, Shoulda. Deal with what actually took place. Josh Smith didnt do much in those last 3 games but yet Al "wouldn't" either in your fantasy scenario.

[jezmund]

Actually Horford had 3 years of college and this was Josh's 4 year so technically you should compared Josh's 4th year to Al's 1st right?

[exodus]

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Woulda, Coulda, Shoulda. Deal with what actually took place. Josh Smith didnt do much in those last 3 games but yet Al "wouldn't" either in your fantasy scenario.

Why are you just talking about the last 3 games i wonder? You do realize the series was 7 games right?

What actually took place is that is that Smith outperformed Horford on both ends by a mile all season long.

[Traceman]

Smoove put up his rookie numbers on a HORRIBLE team while Al put up BETTER rookie numbers on a playoff team. I think Smoove's rookie stats were a classic example of putting up stats on a bad team. If we had been that terrible around Horford this year, I think his numbers would have been a LOT higher just as Durant's were in SEA. Ask Woody and BK if it was close. BK said that Al was the best rookie that we had BY FAR since he's been here at a season ticket holder event.

I think there are PLENTY of reasons to think that Horford COULD pass Smoove in the near future. Look at the recent playoff series versus BOS for starters. Horford was arguably our best and most consistent player, INCLUDING JJ, if you look at the 7 game total. He averaged 13/10/4 and he had an efficiency rating of 19.43. Those are some impressive numbers. If he continues to build on what he did in the playoffs, he is going to be a BEAST next year.

[Traceman]

This is not specifically directed at you but when Marvin is the topic, all that matters is that he has been in the league for 3 years not how old he is relative to the person he is being compared to.

That said, I think that Horford CERTAINLY gained some maturity and strength in college that Smoove didn't have as a rookie and I'm sure that was a BIG reason he was better. STILL, I think that ALL rookies, including those who play all 4 years, have a steep learning curve coming into the NBA and I think that Horford will be SIGNIFICANTLY better this coming season than he was last season.

[Dsinner]

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Smoove put up his rookie numbers on a HORRIBLE team while Al put up BETTER rookie numbers on a playoff team.

What have the playoffs done to some of you? We weren't that different of a team. Hell, it's arguable we were better last year than this year factoring all the injuries we had.

[Diesel]

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Smoove put up his rookie numbers on a HORRIBLE team while Al put up BETTER rookie numbers on a playoff team.

Playoff team When?

IF we didn't have Horf and put Solo in his place or Zaza in his place or Lo in his place... Is this a playoff team?

You have to give Horf his credit too. He brought double doubles every night AND a winners attitude.

[jezmund]

Traceman -

I don't disagree with the fact that there are a lot of Marvin haters on here. I don't consider myself a Marvin 'hater' although I do have him in most of the trades I post. Will Marvin get better? Sure he will. I'm just not a big fan of his game nor what I think his game could become. I've never questioned his work ethic but, to be honest, I don't care about his work ethic if it doesn't show up in the game. He's an awkward looking player who has disappeared on many nights throughout his first 3 years. My BIGGEST reason for considering trading Marvin is b/c I'm not ready to give him the type of money that big name mediocre players sometimes get. Joe and Horford are much bigger priorities that following year (although we don't have to extend Horford that following year). I don't want to lose Marvin for nothing b/c he is definitely an asset that has value.

Another reason I often include Marvin in deals is b/c Joe/Horford aren't going anywhere and Smith/Childress were/are RFA's and if I were a GM I'd be looking at moves constantly. Your team can always get better.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

I'm not going to offer up any opinions. All I'll do is post the numbers:

Jumpshot eFG%:

- Horford: 39% FG ( 71% of his makes were assisted . . 3.3 ppg )

- Smith: 31% FG ( 73% of his makes were assisted . . 4.1 ppg )

Inside FG%:

- Horford: 62% FG ( 65% assisted . . 4.9 ppg )

- Smith: 62% FG ( 61% assisted . . 9 ppg )

Close FG%: ( these are inside shots that aren't dunks or tips )

- Horford 53% ( 62% assisted . . 3.1 ppg )

- Smith: 54% ( 58% assisted . . 6 ppg )

Free throw %:

- Horford: 73%

- Smith: 71%

Draw a Foul %:

- Horford: 13%

- Smith: 17%

Free throw makes per game:

- Horford: 1.9

- Smith: 4.1

[DawsonsCreek]

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Woulda, Coulda, Shoulda. Deal with what actually took place. Josh Smith didnt do much in those last 3 games but yet Al "wouldn't" either in your fantasy scenario.

Why are you just talking about the last 3 games i wonder? You do realize the series was 7 games right?

What actually took place is that is that Smith outperformed Horford on both ends by a mile all season long.

You wanted to choose games 3 and 4 to point out how many points Smith scored but you ask me about why I bring up the last 3 games of the series? Gotta tell the other side of the story exo.

[Packfill]

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This is not specifically directed at you but when Marvin is the topic, all that matters is that he has been in the league for 3 years not how old he is relative to the person he is being compared to.

That said, I think that Horford CERTAINLY gained some maturity and strength in college that Smoove didn't have as a rookie and I'm sure that was a BIG reason he was better. STILL, I think that ALL rookies, including those who play all 4 years, have a steep learning curve coming into the NBA and I think that Horford will be SIGNIFICANTLY better this coming season than he was last season.

I agree with this, but I think rookies who spent 3 or 4 years in college should be expected to make a big jump (or at leat a bigger jump then a prep-to-pro or one-and-done rookie) in their second seasons. Hopefully Horford and Acie make big strides in their second seasons.

[DawsonsCreek]

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This is not specifically directed at you but when Marvin is the topic, all that matters is that he has been in the league for 3 years not how old he is relative to the person he is being compared to.

That said, I think that Horford CERTAINLY gained some maturity and strength in college that Smoove didn't have as a rookie and I'm sure that was a BIG reason he was better. STILL, I think that ALL rookies, including those who play all 4 years, have a steep learning curve coming into the NBA and I think that Horford will be SIGNIFICANTLY better this coming season than he was last season.

I agree with this, but I think rookies who spent 3 or 4 years in college should be expected to make a big jump (or at leat a bigger jump then a prep-to-pro or one-and-done rookie) in their second seasons. Hopefully Horford and Acie make big strides in their second seasons.

I hope Acie makes big strides this year. Loved the potential he showed at times this past year. He gets the keys to drive this thing if he has a big year.

[exodus]

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Woulda, Coulda, Shoulda. Deal with what actually took place. Josh Smith didnt do much in those last 3 games but yet Al "wouldn't" either in your fantasy scenario.

Why are you just talking about the last 3 games i wonder? You do realize the series was 7 games right?

What actually took place is that is that Smith outperformed Horford on both ends by a mile all season long.

You wanted to choose games 3 and 4 to point out how many points Smith scored but you ask me about why I bring up the last 3 games of the series? Gotta tell the other side of the story exo.

The whole story is...

Smith scored 7ppg more during the season and also outscored Horford in the playoffs even though he was going against the DPOY.

Smith had more assists than turnovers on the season. Horford had more turnovers than assists on the season.

The Hawks gave up 7 ppg fewer when Smith was playing. The Hawks gave up just as many points when Horford was playing as when he was on the bench.

[DawsonsCreek]

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Woulda, Coulda, Shoulda. Deal with what actually took place. Josh Smith didnt do much in those last 3 games but yet Al "wouldn't" either in your fantasy scenario.

Why are you just talking about the last 3 games i wonder? You do realize the series was 7 games right?

What actually took place is that is that Smith outperformed Horford on both ends by a mile all season long.

You wanted to choose games 3 and 4 to point out how many points Smith scored but you ask me about why I bring up the last 3 games of the series? Gotta tell the other side of the story exo.

The whole story is...

Smith scored 7ppg more during the season and also outscored Horford in the playoffs even though he was going against the DPOY.

Smith had more assists than turnovers on the season. Horford had more turnovers than assists on the season.

The Hawks gave up 7 ppg fewer when Smith was playing. The Hawks gave up just as many points when Horford was playing as when he was on the bench.

When you shoot 1,133 shots compared to 668 exo, I hope you would avg 7 more points per game. I guess double digit boards doesnt mean anything to you because you neglected to mention that. You would rather focus on how Josh smith averages 2 more assists then AL.

[exodus]

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I guess double digit boards doesnt mean anything to you because you neglected to mention that.

I also didn't mention blocks where Smith is number 2 in the NBA.

Horford is only slightly better than smith on the defensive glass and that can be attributed at least in part to the fact that Smith is a shotblocker and Horford isn't.

Horford has a big advantage over Smith on the offensive glass because he isn't hanging out at the 3 pt line like Smith.

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You would rather focus on how Josh smith averages 2 more assists then AL.

You were the one saying Smith is turnover prone yet Horford is the one who has more turnovers than assists, not Smith.

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When you shoot 1,133 shots compared to 668 exo, I hope you would avg 7 more points per game.

JJ takes more shots than Childress so i guess if Childress took as many shots as JJ he would score just as many points, right?

Smith can actually create shots for himself. Horford can't even beat big slow stiffs off the dribble.

[DawsonsCreek]

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I guess double digit boards doesnt mean anything to you because you neglected to mention that.

I also didn't mention blocks where Smith is number 2 in the NBA.

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You would rather focus on how Josh smith averages 2 more assists then AL.

You were the one saying Smith is turnover prone yet Horford is the one who has more turnovers than assists, not Smith.

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When you shoot 1,133 shots compared to 668 exo, I hope you would avg 7 more points per game.

JJ takes more shots than Childress so i guess if Childress took as many shots as JJ he would score just as many points, right?

Smith can actually create shots for himself. Horford can't even beat big slow stiffs off the dribble.

Does Josh Smith average a double double a game exo? No. Al had 25 double double games. And your childress comment is comical why dont you throw zazas name while your at it. BTW I dont know if you knew this but Smith had 26 turnovers in the playoffs. Smith cant even figure out out in 4 years that he cant shoot over 31 percent from 3 pt range.