Why Overpay For Smoove...

[Cwell]

My bad but he is listed as 6'10"....

he's close to 6'10" but not quite. He's 6'9" and 3 quarters.

[mudderfudder77]

My bad but he is listed as 6'10"....

Al measured at 6'9.75" in shoes at the pre-draft camp.

[crimedog]

Al is 6'10. Everyone is measured in shoes and everyone (except KG and Tim Duncan) are rounded up.

[joshuaneder]

I guarantee you if Horford had proven to be a bust; the ASG would have Smoove locked up by now. But if you look at the big picture, why would you overpay for Smoove at PF, when you have a budding all-star PF in Horford?

You don't is the answer. Marvin knows his role at SF and will take 8 to 10 mill next year. Horford can play PF better than Smoove already and will be on a rookie contract. Smoove is stuck behind a rock and a hard place. He wants superstar type money but he is not someone to build a team around as stated in another thread.

I guarantee the ASG is looking at this from the perspective that we build around JJ and Horford; and go from there. If Smoove wants to be overpaid, it will have to come from another team. I am not saying we will not sign Smoove; but I am saying we will not overpay for him. He really is stuck between Horford and Marvin, a rock and a hard place....

This the single most idiotic post I have read on this forum in 4 years. Marvin will take 8 to 10 million next year? You say this and then state you are worried about "overpaying" Smoove"? Marvin is a joke.

[Buzzard]

This the single most idiotic post I have read on this forum in 4 years. Marvin will take 8 to 10 million next year? You say this and then state you are worried about "overpaying" Smoove"? Marvin is a joke.

Smoove only improved from 16.4 to 17.2 ppg from his 3rd year to his 4th. I think overpaying is the biggest concern for the ASG; which is why they are sticking to a reported 60 mill. Now this is just pure conjecture on my part. It is not a hope but it is a guess as to why the ASG is holding firm.

As far as me being worried, if they want to pay Smoove 72 mill, Marvin 50 to 60 next year, JJ and Al close to max contracts two years from now...I am all for it! But I do not think they will; and again this is just a guess on my part. You say Marvin at 8 to 10 is to much. He is a starter and reportedly Chill was offered 7 mill a year.

If Marvin only improves from 14.8 to 15.6 (.08 the same improvement Smoove showed last year) he will in all likelyhood only get the low end at around 8 mill a year. But if he hits Smooves 17 a game he will probably get close to the high end of 10mill.

I do not know what is so idiotic in reasoning that a starter has a good chance of getting a better offer than last seasons 6th man....

[exodus]

Al is 6'10. Everyone is measured in shoes and everyone (except KG and Tim Duncan) are rounded up.

Actually everyone is measured with and without shoes. There doesn't seem to be any rhyme or reason to listed heights.

For example Childress and Iggy measured as the exact same height but Childress is listed as 6'8" and Iggy at 6'6".

click

JJ measured at 6'6.75" without shoes and is listed at 6'7".

click

[Cwell]

Actually everyone is measured with and without shoes. There doesn't seem to be any rhyme or reason to listed heights.

For example Childress and Iggy measured as the exact same height but Childress is listed as 6'8" and Iggy at 6'6".

click

JJ measured at 6'6.75" without shoes and is listed at 6'7".

click

without shoes doesn't matter .they are listed by their height with shoes and they round them. Alot of guys are listed differently for some reason though. Joe is a legit 6'8" guy. Marvin isn't 6'9. Smoove wasn't 6'9 when he came in too.

[Buzzard]

By the way:

Players in the 3pt. era with 1500 min. and 2.5+ blocks as a rookie: 22

Players in the 3pt. era with 1500 min. and 11+ rebounds as a rookie 21

Show me where you got this from. I swear all I heard during the Boston series was how only 5 or 6 rookies had ever averaged 10 boards a game. Maybe they talking about the playoffs? That could be it but I would still like to see the list.

[atlhawks321]

do not overpay trade for amir/ and prince

[Swish]

atlhawks321,

What does that mean?

Anyway, do we really believe Marvin will improve enough to be worth 8-10 mil? Right now that sounds preposterous but I guess he can surprise me?

[BusBoyIsBack]

this is actually a kind of retarded thread. why pit them against each other? they compliment each other so well. imo, josh, joe and al should be the main 3 players we're concerned with. i think w/ josh next to him, al can play the 5 for the next decade. you've got the strong rebounder and the athletic shot blocker who can both put up big points on offense. 72 probably is a little too much but 60's probably a bargain. 11/yr would be perfect.

Human nature to go into factions even on the same team.

It's really ridiculous. We are far better off with both of them than with only one of them. That's not even debatable honestly.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

I guarantee you if Horford had proven to be a bust; the ASG would have Smoove locked up by now. But if you look at the big picture, why would you overpay for Smoove at PF, when you have a budding all-star PF in Horford?

You don't is the answer. Marvin knows his role at SF and will take 8 to 10 mill next year. Horford can play PF better than Smoove already and will be on a rookie contract. Smoove is stuck behind a rock and a hard place. He wants superstar type money but he is not someone to build a team around as stated in another thread.

I guarantee the ASG is looking at this from the perspective that we build around JJ and Horford; and go from there. If Smoove wants to be overpaid, it will have to come from another team. I am not saying we will not sign Smoove; but I am saying we will not overpay for him. He really is stuck between Horford and Marvin, a rock and a hard place....

I tend to agree with this. Plus, I also think they want to position themselves in 2 years, to possibly be a player in 2010 for all of those unrestricted free agents . . . one of them being our very own Joe Johnson.

As for the Hawks without Smith, there is NO DOBUT IN MY MIND that Horford and Marvin will step up, if given a bigger role in the offense. Offensively, the Hawks would be better without Smith, but be worse defensively.

The question then becomes, can those scrub centers be productive enough combined, to at least put up the numbers Hoford did last year. And they'd at least have to be decent man defenders, even if they didn't provide the shot blocking of Smith. And they'd definitely have to rebound.

This has turned into a mess, so it will be interesting to see how this plays out.

[Johnnybravo4]

Here we go. Horford has never avg 15ppg in college or in the NBA and all of a sudden he is going to be Karl Malone. Players big men who played significant college minutes tend to come out of the gate with upper tier stats if they are all star players. For example

Duncan avg 21/11 rookie year

Malone avg 15/9

Barkley avg 15.9

Okafor was 15/10

Brand 20/10

Horford's 10/10 is solid but it is unknown whether he will become, Brand, Malone, Horace Grant or Buck Williams. But you can't run a team on the cheap by letting a potential 20/10/4/3/2 guy go for a 10/10 guy.

[Swish]

Yeah Johnny this is a direct result I believe of staying in school.

[HawksFan87]

Here we go. Horford has never avg 15ppg in college or in the NBA and all of a sudden he is going to be Karl Malone. Players big men who played significant college minutes tend to come out of the gate with upper tier stats if they are all star players. For example

Duncan avg 21/11 rookie year

Malone avg 15/9

Barkley avg 15.9

Okafor was 15/10

Brand 20/10

Horford's 10/10 is solid but it is unknown whether he will become, Brand, Malone, Horace Grant or Buck Williams. But you can't run a team on the cheap by letting a potential 20/10/4/3/2 guy go for a 10/10 guy.

I concur.....

[Buzzard]

Human nature to go into factions even on the same team.

It's really ridiculous. We are far better off with both of them than with only one of them. That's not even debatable honestly.

You are right on that we are better off with both of them. This is not a post to create faction. I only have stated why I think the ASG is holding firm on their 60 mill offer...

A: Maybe they think Smoove is close to his upside. You may ask why would they think that? He improved only incrementally from his 3rd year to his 4th year. That is not something to take lightly. Especially since Smoove knew he was in a contract year....

B: They may think that if Smoove refuses to sign at 60 mill, they can wait him out due to Horford and Marvin's abilities

C: They may think that if it comes down to a SNT that losing Smoove will not hurt us as badly as losing JJ or Al when their contracts are up in two years...

This was not a post created to argue about who is better Al or Smoove. I started it as a post to try and determine the ASG's reasoning as to why they do not want to sign Smoove to a contract higher than 60 mill. Al, Marvin, and JJ just happen to be some of the possible reasons; but the main reason and most simplistic has to be their belief that Smoove is not worth more than 60 mill. In other words reason A; and B and C are possibly making their decision easer

[oiatlhawksfan]

I'd take Al at the 4 over Smoove. He's more relaible, you don't have to worry about him taking stupid shots.

[oiatlhawksfan]

Here we go. Horford has never avg 15ppg in college or in the NBA and all of a sudden he is going to be Karl Malone. Players big men who played significant college minutes tend to come out of the gate with upper tier stats if they are all star players. For example

Duncan avg 21/11 rookie year

Malone avg 15/9

Barkley avg 15.9

Okafor was 15/10

Brand 20/10

Horford's 10/10 is solid but it is unknown whether he will become, Brand, Malone, Horace Grant or Buck Williams. But you can't run a team on the cheap by letting a potential 20/10/4/3/2 guy go for a 10/10 guy.

Are you forgetting there were 2 other lottery picks in that College team.

And he average 10/10 being the 4 or 5th option, those players came in and were the man instantly.

[Buzzard]

I'd take Al at the 4 over Smoove. He's more relaible, you don't have to worry about him taking stupid shots.

I agree that Horford is a true power foward and a better power forward; but I also think that a front line of:

Smoove, Horf, and Marvin is better than Marvin, ZaZa, and Horf.

I don't want to lose Smoove; but that is not something any of us have any control over...

Edited August 3, 2008 by jamesdcrockett

[Murat]

Smoove is a better player overall than Horford. He gets solid stats all across the board, but plays crazy and wild, turns the ball over, takes bad shots and is a tweener(no true positon).

AL Horford is a better PF and a better C than Smoove, he does the little things, team leader, plays within the system and itc.

With that said i would take Horford over Smoove anyday of the week.

WOuld you rather have Duncan, Brand, Boozer type of player or Ak47, GWallace, Smoove type of player?