We need to take care of Marvin's contract now

[Admin]

You can think abstractly as you wish. I suggest you think regularly and follow the ball.

Us making an offer to Smoove early would be much different than us making an offer to Marvin early. Reason being is because we would have a reason to make that offer to Smoove (which gets to my point) Smoove is an impact player, Marvin is not.

Sorry but you're wrong here. We have every reason to make that offer to Marvin for 2 reasons.

1). He's worth it.

2). If we don't, someone most likely will offer him that much or more as a RFA next year, providing that he continues to improve this season as he has every year.

[mrhonline]

Extending Marvin is a tough call for me.

On one hand, he still has much to prove. Also, the Hawks are going to be over the cap next year no matter what, so it won't really matter in that regard.

On the other hand, there will be several teams, particularly Portland, who could use a player like Marvin at the 3, and will have PLENTY of cap space to add him. Also, while Marvin still has room to grow, the potential is still very much there. He's already a league-average SF at the age of what, 22? It's not like we expect him to always be the same player he is now.

If I had to make the decision, I would go ahead and gamble on him getting a good deal better. He has good character, has the tools you want in a young player, and is very coachable.

I'd offer him 5 yrs, $50M and see what his (agent's) response is. That's not a whole lot less than what Deng and Iggy got through five years. (Of course, that sixth year makes a big difference, but he can't get a sixth year unless he stays with Atlanta next year).

{Someone will inevitably point out that the Hawks only offered $45M to Smith, but let's remember that was Knight, not Sund}.

[Diesel]

Sorry but you're wrong here. We have every reason to make that offer to Marvin for 2 reasons.

1). He's worth it.

2). If we don't, someone most likely will offer him that much or more as a RFA next year, providing that he continues to improve this season as he has every year.

I'm hearing you say agree to the fact that we ought to offer Marvin 9 million per year.

Tell me

How is he worth it? What is he doing that's worth 9 million per.

In Charlotte, GForce Gerald Wallace doesn't make 9 Million per... and he has been a leader in blocks and Steals.

In Chicago, Luol Deng just signed a 9 Million dollar contract and he's his team's 2nd option.

In Detroit, Tayshun Prince is making 9 Million per...

Corey Maggette is not making 9 Million per

Tell me what makes Marvin in the class with these guys?

You say "He's worth it".

How?

[mrhonline]

I predict Marvin signs next year for MORE than Smooth.

You are almost certain to be right.

The list of teams with "more than MLE" money is solid next year. The list of players with both Marvin's potential and Marvin's character are slim.

There will be an initial rush to get the UFA's like Boozer and Okur, but after that, Marvin will be a top prize.

[Admin]

I'm hearing you say agree to the fact that we ought to offer Marvin 9 million per year.

Tell me

How is he worth it? What is he doing that's worth 9 million per.

In Charlotte, GForce Gerald Wallace doesn't make 9 Million per... and he has been a leader in blocks and Steals.

In Chicago, Luol Deng just signed a 9 Million dollar contract and he's his team's 2nd option.

In Detroit, Tayshun Prince is making 9 Million per...

Corey Maggette is not making 9 Million per

Tell me what makes Marvin in the class with these guys?

You say "He's worth it".

How?

Gerald Wallace makes 9.5 million per year without raises.

Luol Deng starts at 9.4 million this year with raises up to 14.35 million.

Tayshaun Prince is making 9.5 million this year with raises up to 11.15 million.

Corey Maggette is making 8.28 million this year with raises up to 10.92 million.

"The Associated Press reports that Maggette is getting a five-year deal worth around $50 million". If you'll notice that is more than what I want to offer Marvin. The other deals are A LOT more than I'd offer Marvin. Still though, Marvin is younger than all of them and much younger than most of them. His stats are right in line with a guy that should AVERAGE 9 million per year on his deal, assuming his production continues to increase as it has every year.

[crimedog]

You are almost certain to be right.

The list of teams with "more than MLE" money is solid next year. The list of players with both Marvin's potential and Marvin's character are slim.

There will be an initial rush to get the UFA's like Boozer and Okur, but after that, Marvin will be a top prize.

I guess we'll see. The only RFA to get an offer from another team this past season was Smith. Deng, Iggy, Oak... they all waited for a while and didn't get any offers. There is a reason you rarely have a big money RFA signing, even in the best of times.

[AtLaS]

I'd offer him 5 yrs, $50M and see what his (agent's) response is. That's not a whole lot less than what Deng and Iggy got through five years. (Of course, that sixth year makes a big difference, but he can't get a sixth year unless he stays with Atlanta next year).

10 million a year? After Smith's third year, he was MORE proven than Marvin and we offered him less. And, I think Sund is less apt to give a higher deal than BK based on Seattle fans' opinions of him. No way I'd offer 5 years 50. I'd offer him 5 years, 40 million and if he turns it down we'll see what he's got this year.

[mrhonline]

10 million a year? After Smith's third year, he was MORE proven than Marvin and we offered him less.

See my last paragraph above. :)

And, I think Sund is less apt to give a higher deal than BK based on Seattle fans' opinions of him. No way I'd offer 5 years 50. I'd offer him 5 years, 40 million and if he turns it down we'll see what he's got this year.

Sund gave Ridnour and Collison extensions at annual rates above their market (MLE) value. Sonics' fans say that his intention is to "slightly overpay" his players.

[Diesel]

Gerald Wallace makes 9.5 million per year without raises.

Luol Deng starts at 9.4 million this year with raises up to 14.35 million.

Tayshaun Prince is making 9.5 million this year with raises up to 11.15 million.

Corey Maggette is making 8.28 million this year with raises up to 10.92 million.

"The Associated Press reports that Maggette is getting a five-year deal worth around $50 million". If you'll notice that is more than what I want to offer Marvin. The other deals are A LOT more than I'd offer Marvin. Still though, Marvin is younger than all of them and much younger than most of them. His stats are right in line with a guy that should AVERAGE 9 million per year on his deal, assuming his production continues to increase as it has every year.

But the question is..

How is Marvin as good or better than these guys?

Being Younger does not mean better.

[Admin]

But the question is..

How is Marvin as good or better than these guys?

Being Younger does not mean better.

I didn't say he was as good or better than those guys. If I believed that then I would suggest that he gets an equal or better contract. I'm suggesting that he gets a contract that is commensurate with his value in relation to those guys.

You have to take his age into consideration since very few players peak at his age and Marvin has shown steady improvement all 3 years which suggests that he will continue to improve. Considering his current production and projections for the next 5 years it's easy to justify paying him an average of 9 million over the life of a 5 year deal which would be 5/45.

[AtLaS]

See my last paragraph above. :)

I don't see Marvin being a top target at all, unless he has a blowup year. Anyone who's done their research on him knows that he isn't worth overpaying for, especially 10 million a year.

Sund gave Ridnour and Collison extensions at annual rates above their market (MLE) value. Sonics' fans say that his intention is to "slightly overpay" his players.

So what happened with Josh Smith? If he wasn't willing to offer Smith more than 5 years, 45 million THIS SUMMER, a snowball has a better chance in hell than Marvin has at getting 10 million a year.

[AtLaS]

You have to take his age into consideration since very few players peak at his age and Marvin has shown steady improvement all 3 years which suggests that he will continue to improve.

Marvin did not improve from year 1 to year 2. He played more minutes, but his PER was the exact same. His per increased about 2 points this past season.

[Admin]

Marvin did not improve from year 1 to year 2. He played more minutes, but his PER was the exact same. His per increased about 2 points this past season.

Oh, well if all you have to do is increase players minutes then lets increase everyone and our whole team will be awesome.

To say that he didn't improve from year 1 to year 2 is flat our ridiculous.

[yardbird]

I seriously doubt it.

Every other team is gearing up for 2010. That means that next year's FA class will be a duck. Probably worse than this years. Teams will be trying to save their cash so that they can be in the 2010 free agent banaza.

Which means that those who try to lure a marquee free agent, but fail, will have plenty of cash to look at players like Marvin as a consolation prize, right?

[mrhonline]

So what happened with Josh Smith? If he wasn't willing to offer Smith more than 5 years, 45 million THIS SUMMER, a snowball has a better chance in hell than Marvin has at getting 10 million a year.

The difference is that Josh Smith was already a free agent when Sund took over, and there was no chance for an extension.

[AHF]

Oh, well if all you have to do is increase players minutes then lets increase everyone and our whole team will be awesome.

To say that he didn't improve from year 1 to year 2 is flat our ridiculous.

PER measures productivity per minute so Marvin's minutes could have been doubled from year one to year two or cut in half from year one to year two and his numbers would have been basically the same. Using PER as your metric, Marvin basically didn't improve year one to two. That is actually correct.

[Popeye]

There is no way I'm touching Marvin's deal until he shows us. Thats nuts. We'd be stuck with an albatross. No team would trade for a guy averaging 8mil who is putting up 12/4 or whatever.

I see dumb people. Even if he doesn't improve statistcly next season he would still earn that 8 mil a year. In nba everyone is overpaid and 8 mil a year for a 15 and 6 young guy is just about right. Take off your hater goggles please.

[Admin]

PER measures productivity per minute so Marvin's minutes could have been doubled from year one to year two or cut in half from year one to year two and his numbers would have been basically the same. Using PER as your metric, Marvin basically didn't improve year one to two. That is actually correct.

Of course it's technically correct, but my point is that just because someones minutes increase it doesn't mean that their stats will. If it were that simple then you could simply increase the minutes of your best per players and be set.

Stats also don't tell the whole story either as it was obvious that Marvin was better in his 2nd year and then made an even bigger jump for most of his 3rd year.

[MemphisX]

But the question is..

How is Marvin as good or better than these guys?

Being Younger does not mean better.

I think the real question is: Which one of those players were better than Marvin at his age?

[AtLaS]

The difference is that Josh Smith was already a free agent when Sund took over, and there was no chance for an extension.

That actually proves my point even further. Since Smith was an RFA, he could negotiate with other teams and if we didn't come to terms he could bolt after next year. Marvin CAN'T negotiate with other teams so there is no reason AT ALL to overpay, or offer him more than we offered Smith. Honestly, that's a slap in the face to Josh, and stupid anyway to offer MW 10 million per when he is clearly not worth that..