Can a player be bad in practice and good in games?

[Admin]

Let's say that there is a player who doesn't perform well in practice, whether it's not being able to grasp the offensive/defensive system, or he makes too many turnovers, or he's shown that he's not physically capable of performing at the NBA level. Do you believe that this player could under perform in practice and succeed in games?

I should also note that in the above example I am not referring to any player in particular, this is just a general question so please try and answer honestly.

Edit - based on Crimedog's comments below let's say that we're only talking about fundamentals here.

[crimedog]

Figure it has to be situational. What specifically aren't they doing well in practice and what specifically do they do well in a game?

I mean, if the coach is making everyone practice the same way, I can see that. If he's demanding the same things from Tom Gardner as he is from JJ, I could see why Gardner doesn't look good. On the other hand, if he's just asking Gardner to spot up and hit jumpers and play D in practice and he proves to be too much of a liability even there, then I guess I doubt his ability to do anything consistently in a game?

Did that make sense?

[Admin]

Figure it has to be situational. What specifically aren't they doing well in practice and what specifically do they do well in a game?

I mean, if the coach is making everyone practice the same way, I can see that. If he's demanding the same things from Tom Gardner as he is from JJ, I could see why Gardner doesn't look good. On the other hand, if he's just asking Gardner to spot up and hit jumpers and play D in practice and he proves to be too much of a liability even there, then I guess I doubt his ability to do anything consistently in a game?

Did that make sense?

Yes it makes sense, I've edited the first post to only base the response to the poll on the fundamentals.

[NineOhTheRino]

I remember having a real a-hole boss a while back. I would feel physically different whenever the dude came around. My hands would get sweaty and my breathing pattern would change. I just did not like this guy and it severely affected my job performance. Say the player in question is experiencing the same thing.

Edited January 20, 2009 by NineOhTheRino

[dlpin]

I dont think you can be fundamentally bad in practices and good in games. But I do think that there are several players who do not give a damn about practice and do not really try or even pay attention but who are good during games. Iverson being the famous case.

Edited January 20, 2009 by dlpin

[crimedog]

I dont think you can be fundamentally bad in practices and good in games. But I don think that there are several players who do not give a damn about practice and do not really try or even pay attention but who are good during games. Iverson being the famous case.

I don't think you can be fundamentally bad and practice and fundamentally good in games, but I do think you can be fundamentally bad period and be useful as a player.

[dlpin]

I don't think you can be fundamentally bad and practice and fundamentally good in games, but I do think you can be fundamentally bad period and be useful as a player.

I agree.

Shaq being the extreme example. His whole shooting mechanics are completely flawed, his ball handling skills ditto, but he is such a force in the post that it didnt matter. Physical skill, strength and positioning made him what he is. But the same mechanics in a 6'10 220 body who is not as fast or agile and he doesnt even play college basketball.

Edited January 20, 2009 by dlpin

[Gray Mule]

Yes. There can be a difference in practice and in actual game conditions.

If a player is fundementally flawed, that won't change, no matter what.

However, in an actual game setting, there is an additional flow of adrenalin

that is probably not there in practice. This can lift a player up to a higher plane

of preformance. Concentration may become inhanced in an actual game setting.

Then, there is the effect of the croud of fans, not available in practice. Knowing that

they are watching him, as are many more thru live TV, may have the effect of lifting

some players up to new heights.

A bum is a bum is a bum and nothing can change him. Chances are, he's not going

to be in the NBA. But, those border line players, I believe, may indeed be much

better in a game than in practice. Just my personal opinion.

:newspaper:

[AtLaS]

Jermaine O'Neal popped into my head when I saw the title.

[Guest]

I don't think it translates this way. If you are bad in practice, i.e. your performance flat out sucks even though you try, I don't see how you can magically get better for a game. I do see this situation going the other way though. You can be a great practice guy but once you get into the game jitters take over and you end up playing worse.

[bronnt]

It's specifically relevant to who you're talking about, I imagine.

There's plenty of star players who sleepwalk through a practice, but it's not like they're bad players when they're at practice. They still have all the basic skills and, assuming they're not hungover (or still drunk from the night before) they certainly have the abilities to at any point put on a display at practice.

If you're talking about a guy who's on the bench with limited minutes, odds are that he's not blowing off practice because he should have something to prove. If he can't ever demonstrate his actual ability to contribute during a practice, he certainly is unlikely to contribute during a game. And if he doesn't practice hard despite having limited minutes, he probably doesn't deserve anything more than he's getting.

I can certainly see the opposite, being true, though-a player who's very good in practice but not so great in games. When the pressure's on, they can't hit free throws, jump shots, and get too jumpy on defense. That's certainly very plausible.

[PlayaPat420]

My answer was maybe because I do think that some players, and people in generally, can perform better when in the real life situation. Some people get their intensity and focus from the competion and challenges when actually in them. An easy example would be a person that doesn't study well or has troubles completing homework or assignments for school but when the test and exams come around, they ace them because of the knowledge that this is what counts for the mass majority of your grading.

But like others have said, I also feel a player can shine in practice but not the games because pressure burst pipes, as the saying goes.

[Admin]

Based on the explanations in this thread and the voting in the poll it would appear that the majority believe that our bench players who might not be performing up to expectations in practice should be more playing time to see if they perform better in games.

Assuming that the reason Hunter, Gardner, and Morris don't play much is because there aren't enough minutes for them and they are all new to the team this year that would leave Acie and Solo are the guys who qualify since there are minutes available for them and they aren't new to the team.

Assuming again that Woody doesn't have a personal agenda against those two it's got to be their play in practice which is holding them back from getting on the floor in games more since I don't think either have been "bad" in games if you consider what Flip has done to be better than "bad" since he does get playing time and his numbers certainly don't blow away Acie or Solo.

[lunar]

see allen iverson...

[frosgrim]

I think Brett Farve was horrible in practice, but obviously was terrific in games.

There are a couple of quarterbacks that have that same rep, but I can't think of the names right now.

In terms of basketball, it probably isn't exactly the same as a qb is learning week to week the game plan and it might not solidify in his mind until game day. Basketball seems to be more about reps of the same basic fundamentals, while adding twists to suit the team one is facing.

Beyond the player, I would have to say that a coach and how he runs a practice is going to influence the success of certain players. Whom are bench guys practicing with and against? What is trying to be accomplished in practice (and the practice better damn well have specific goals in mind and design)? What is the flow of the practice? Some coaches systems simply aren't going to mesh with certain players. I think this is why you see some players leave a team where they sucked and end up flourishing with a new team.

From what I have read about Woodson's practices, mainly from Mark Prices' comments, Woodson needs a lot of work to get his practices organized and be goal specific. Each drill should build upon the last and the sum of the drills need to add up to what is done in games.

A great example of how this should be done is in Coach Mike Smith's practices with the Falcons. Watch them all day and you'll get what they are trying to do for that day. An example of to run practice wrong was how Petrino ran practice. From what I saw, Petrino just wanted to exert authority. The drills didn't flow from one to the next and at the end of the day you came away wondering how what they did would translate into utilization on the field.

[HawkItus]

Yes. I offered this same theory about a month ago. I've actually seen it in action on lower levels. We had a guy in high school who played pg. In practice he couldn't operate the offense, his handles were sketchy at best, and his shooting was subpar. And he was really trying. Game time though he would go off. Best player on the court many games. The problem as I saw it was that with the coach and the team paying so much attention to him in the intimate confines of practice one mistake snowballed. But, in the game with so much going on he could just relax and play. Not over think things. And coach would have so much more to concern himself with that he didn't nit pick.

[crimedog]

Based on the explanations in this thread and the voting in the poll it would appear that the majority believe that our bench players who might not be performing up to expectations in practice should be more playing time to see if they perform better in games.

Assuming that the reason Hunter, Gardner, and Morris don't play much is because there aren't enough minutes for them and they are all new to the team this year that would leave Acie and Solo are the guys who qualify since there are minutes available for them and they aren't new to the team.

I think PT does different things for different guys. Solo and Rio seem to be able to produce even during those (many) games where they are just put in for 43 seconds. Gardner and Law on the other hand, seem to to need to get into a rythm. We all know Gardner can shoot the ball, but he airballed his attempt last night...