For the Record: Authority of NBA Governor to Veto Trade Authorized by Board of Managers

[DJlaysitup]

...Let's place a bet on this. I will bet $2,000 to be donated to Hawksquawk if I lose and the Judge ultimately rules that Belkin had the power to veto the Board of Governors. You donate $20 if the case is resolved without that ruling.

$2000 to $20 is silly...I have donated to HQuawk and will again no matter the outcome of this....let's make it this....$200 donated for the guy who loses. Loses meaning who ends up owning the team. If itsa bust up (Belkin getting the Hawks and the other dudes getting the other stuff) - I win. But the final thing is "who owns the Hawks".

BTW...once you lose...I will match your "donation"....because I like this site.

Edited March 22, 2009 by DJlaysitup

[AHF]

$2000 to $20 is silly...I have donated to HQuawk and will again no matter the outcome of this....let's make it this....$200 donated for the guy who loses. Loses meaning who ends up owning the team. If itsa bust up (Belkin getting the Hawks and the other dudes getting the other stuff) - I win. But the final thing is "who owns the Hawks".

BTW...once you lose...I will match your "donation"....because I like this site.

I've never disputed that Belkin could end up owning the team. I am not loving his odds but it is very possible.

The sucker's bet (thus 2000 to 20) is whether the Court will rule that Belkin was within the scope of his authority as governor of the Hawks when he vetoed the trade for JJ that was approved by the board of managers.

I know you are confident and believe that Belkin will win ownership of the team. What I am trying to guage is if you are truly confident that he was in the right as governor and that this is an issue that is live in his lawsuit.

Edited March 25, 2009 by AHF

[AHF]

I bet he read it - he may even have authored it :hush:

If he authored it he has to be ticked off at how big of a low ball appraisal it was compared to the second one he got.

[DJlaysitup]

If he authored it he has to be ticked off at how big of a low ball appraisal it was compared to the second one he got.

Good point...I hadn't thought about that....I think that shows that this was an evolving situation...not some sort of planned conspiracy.

Edited March 26, 2009 by DJlaysitup

[exodus]

Good point...I hadn't thought about that....I think that shows that this was an evolving situation...not some sort of planned conspiracy.

That means nothing of the sort. You made a ridiculous assumption that Belkin wrote the appraisal which obviously isn't the case. what he did do was delay the buyout process as much as possible so that he could claim he had the right to buy the ASG out at cost.

Every step Belkin has made points to the same thing, that this is exactly what he wanted. That is why he had the contract written the way he did. It was a bomb he was planning to drop all along.

[AHF]

I don't think Belkin delayed the buy-out process, he just tried to exercise near total control by preventing the ASG from selecting any of the appraisers. He picked the first appraiser. He hired a firm to assist the appraiser and paid them based not on their commitment to help find fair market value but based on the amount of the appraisal (i.e., higher the appraisal the more they got paid). He then was set to object to the appraisal he commissioned regardless of the result because he was always better in a world where he could bring in a second hired gun rather than let the ASG bring in their chosen appraiser. Even if the first appraisal had valued the franchises at 150 trillion dollars, he still would have objected to try to maintain control of the process.

That doesn't mean he was delaying, though. My personal theory is that he decided to get the best of both worlds by either getting a figure with two appraisals from his hired guns and one from the league for the buyout or where the ASG would be faced with potentially breaching the contract if he cried foul, permitting him to buy out the ASG at cost.

That is really where the ASG's attorneys were morons. They should never have allowed a clause where Belkin could buy them out at pennies on the dollar to be part of the deal.

[DJlaysitup]

That means nothing of the sort. You made a ridiculous assumption that Belkin wrote the appraisal which obviously isn't the case. what he did do was delay the buyout process as much as possible so that he could claim he had the right to buy the ASG out at cost.

Every step Belkin has made points to the same thing, that this is exactly what he wanted. That is why he had the contract written the way he did. It was a bomb he was planning to drop all along.

Oh Horse patooty. Belkin wanted to be the head guy for the Hawks...pretty much run the show and be the hero when his plans worked out. He wanted the Hawks to do VERY well. He didn't plan any long-term manuevers. There is likely nothing that Belkin would have liked better than hosting the other owners in the owner's suite while the Hawks fought it out in the playoffs 4 years ago. He just got stuck with a lousy GM and hung in there as long as he could with him until he was fed up.

As far as the appraisal process and the other legal moves - Belkin realized that he was in a poisonous situation and he did the same thing that you or I would do....circle the wagons and protect your assets. If one is allowed by the terms of the contract to make a move or two that is in one's best interest - one would be silly to not exercise that option. This isn't Walden pond.

[exodus]

Oh Horse patooty. Belkin wanted to be the head guy for the Hawks...pretty much run the show and be the hero when his plans worked out. He wanted the Hawks to do VERY well. He didn't plan any long-term manuevers. There is likely nothing that Belkin would have liked better than hosting the other owners in the owner's suite while the Hawks fought it out in the playoffs 4 years ago. He just got stuck with a lousy GM and hung in there as long as he could with him until he was fed up.

As far as the appraisal process and the other legal moves - Belkin realized that he was in a poisonous situation and he did the same thing that you or I would do....circle the wagons and protect your assets. If one is allowed by the terms of the contract to make a move or two that is in one's best interest - one would be silly to not exercise that option. This isn't Walden pond.

So i guess it was just blind luck that Belkin's lawyers put the language in contract that could possibly allow Belkin to buy out the owners at cost. And it is just a wild coincidence that Belkin has done everything he possibly could to reach that outcome.

Sure

[DJlaysitup]

So i guess it was just blind luck that Belkin's lawyers put the language in contract that could possibly allow Belkin to buy out the owners at cost. And it is just a wild coincidence that Belkin has done everything he possibly could to reach that outcome.

Sure

Yep - blind luck :beer: or really good Lawyers

Edited March 27, 2009 by DJlaysitup

[exodus]

Yep - blind luck :beer: or really good Lawyers

Lawyers wouldn't have put that language into the contract unless they were told to. Belkin laid the groundwork for his hostile takeover attempt before the contract was even signed. His intentions couldn't be more clear.

[DJlaysitup]

..

Why do i believe this? Because of the contract. he had it put in there that he could buy out the other owners at cost if the appraisal process took too long. That is why he objected to the appraisal of his own appraiser before he even read the appraisal.

I don't think Belkin is dumb at all. I think he planned his power play all along and just used the JJ situation to get it started.

It's called "risk management" ex....we all know about it...we just didn't tell you :laugh:

[exodus]

It's called "risk management" ex....we all know about it...we just didn't tell you :laugh:

Sure. And then he just so happens to try and block a trade which he knows he doesn't have the authority to do, which he knows will get him removed as Governor and which he knows will lead to his eventual pay day.

Every step Belkin has made points in the same direction. This was all just a money making ploy for him.

[DJlaysitup]

,,,,Every step Belkin has made points in the same direction. This was all just a money making ploy for him.

Oh c'mon ?? He just wanted to run an NBA team.

[exodus]

Oh c'mon ?? He just wanted to run an NBA team.

Nothing he has done points in that direction.

He knew full well he couldn't block the JJ trade as Governor. The rules are very straightforward to everyone else, if not to you. However he did it anyway because that was the way to get the buyout process started.

If he was content being a part owner he wouldn't have tried to block the trade. He knew he

didn't have the votes and he agreed to the voting rules when he signed the contract. The reason he tried to block the trade is because he DIDN'T want to be part of the ownership group. He wanted to get paid. That is all.

[DJlaysitup]

Nothing he has done points in that direction.

He knew full well he couldn't block the JJ trade as Governor. The rules are very straightforward to everyone else, if not to you. However he did it anyway because that was the way to get the buyout process started.

If he was content being a part owner he wouldn't have tried to block the trade. He knew he

didn't have the votes and he agreed to the voting rules when he signed the contract. The reason he tried to block the trade is because he DIDN'T want to be part of the ownership group. He wanted to get paid. That is all.

You aren't very good with time are you ex? I mean - no offense - but you simply don't understand the timeline we are talking about. People have these problems - can't remember birthdays and such.

TRUTH IS....Belkin came in as a "majority owner" - at least compared to the others (not a true majority owner...but he paid more than any of the others). He simply (as Governor) tried to block a bad trade.

Was it OK for BK to give everything to get JJ?? Maybe in hindsight it was OK - JJ is a helluva shooter (when you keep him out of the horse game at all-star weekend)....as far as JJ's shooting skills at the regular allstar game - who knows? He didn't take a shot.

But honestly....JJ is a star.

...our star....and that's what we have to live with -

for now.

Edited April 2, 2009 by DJlaysitup

[exodus]

You aren't very good with time are you ex? I mean - no offense - but you simply don't understand the timeline we are talking about. People have these problems - can't remember birthdays and such.

TRUTH IS....Belkin came in as a "majority owner" - at least compared to the others (not a true majority owner...but he paid more than any of the others). He simply (as Governor) tried to block a bad trade.

Was it OK for BK to give everything to get JJ?? Maybe in hindsight it was OK - JJ is a helluva shooter (when you keep him out of the horse game at all-star weekend)....as far as JJ's shooting skills at the regular allstar game - who knows? He didn't take a shot.

But honestly....JJ is a star.

...our star....and that's what we have to live with -

for now.

You seem to be confused as to what a majority owner is. A guy owning 30% of the team isn't a majority owner. Period.

The JJ trade was of interest to Belkin for one reason and one reason only, to get the buyout process started. That is all. He knew full well that he didn't have the authority as Governor to block the trade and that if he tried he would probably get outsted. That is exactly why he tried to block the trade, to start the buyout process and get paid.

If he was just against the trade (and not interested in trying to start a lawsuit) then he just would have voted against it. It isn't like the JJ trade was going to devestate the team since they only won 13 games that year. Get real.

The timeline isn't the issue, Belkin's intentions are. His actions indicate very clearly what his intentions were. All of his actions point to one conclusion.

[AHF]

Belkin was in no way a majority owner. Not at all.

He had the single biggest stake among 9 people with stakes. Accordingly, the ownership group was divided into 3 voting entities. Belkin was the only one that owned a stake on his own. However, as a vote it is just 1 of 3 - far from a majority, Belkin's vote didn't count for any more than either of the other voting groups simply by virtue of him having the biggest individual stake. He could not carry the vote on what kind of soda to serve at the stadium let alone basketball moves without getting other owners to sign on and vote with him.

His actual ownership interest was less than his voting interest but voting interest is the only important way to look at it as far as how the team was run, IMO.

[DJlaysitup]

Belkin was in no way a majority owner. Not at all.

He had the single biggest stake among 9 people with stakes. Accordingly, the ownership group was divided into 3 voting entities. Belkin was the only one that owned a stake on his own. However, as a vote it is just 1 of 3 - far from a majority, Belkin's vote didn't count for any more than either of the other voting groups simply by virtue of him having the biggest individual stake. He could not carry the vote on what kind of soda to serve at the stadium let alone basketball moves without getting other owners to sign on and vote with him.

His actual ownership interest was less than his voting interest but voting interest is the only important way to look at it as far as how the team was run, IMO.

I have never said that Belkin is a true "majority owner"...obviously he is not...just that he spent more money than the others to get this franchise.

[DJlaysitup]

You seem to be confused as to what a majority owner is. A guy owning 30% of the team isn't a majority owner. Period.

I said : "

TRUTH IS....Belkin came in as a "majority owner" - at least compared to the others (not a true majority owner...but he paid more than any of the others). He simply (as Governor) tried to block a bad trade.

Did you read this or just jump on the first few words...NO Belkin is not a true Majority Owner....if that were the case we would be much better off as a franchise. He just spent more money than any of the others.

I am flabbergasted. Here we are with pitiful depth...mostly due to draft picks we gave away to get JJ (when we really didn't have to) and Belkin was the ONE GUY who tried to keep those (or some) picks...and everybody hates him?? It's inflaggerablerational. Give the man the team....the others are worrying about their mortgages.

Jeez ex....I normally respect your opinion - but have you given up reading?

Edited April 5, 2009 by DJlaysitup

[HamHawk]

Inflaggerablerational? That has to be the forty thousand dollar word!! hahaha

I wish Arthur Blank would buy the Hawks, then these discussions would never take place because they wouldn't have to