For the Record: Authority of NBA Governor to Veto Trade Authorized by Board of Managers

[AHF]

Well now we have most of a year to get this thing done. I just hope somebody wins.

If it's the ASG (favorites) I would expect them to sell the team and cut their losses. If it's Belkin I would probably expect the same....but you never know - Belkin may want to make a splash and bring in a F/A?....be the hero.

You really think that the ASG would sell the teams if they won the lawsuit? Why wouldn't they require Belkin to pay his contractually obligated share of the operating expenses if that was their approach? Unless they are required to pay Belkin so much to purchase the teams that they can't afford to keep running, I have a hard time seeing that happen.

[DJlaysitup]

I don't think Belkin delayed the buy-out process, he just tried to exercise near total control by preventing the ASG from selecting any of the appraisers. He picked the first appraiser. He hired a firm to assist the appraiser and paid them based not on their commitment to help find fair market value but based on the amount of the appraisal (i.e., higher the appraisal the more they got paid). He then was set to object to the appraisal he commissioned regardless of the result because he was always better in a world where he could bring in a second hired gun rather than let the ASG bring in their chosen appraiser. Even if the first appraisal had valued the franchises at 150 trillion dollars, he still would have objected to try to maintain control of the process.

That doesn't mean he was delaying, though. My personal theory is that he decided to get the best of both worlds by either getting a figure with two appraisals from his hired guns and one from the league for the buyout or where the ASG would be faced with potentially breaching the contract if he cried foul, permitting him to buy out the ASG at cost.

That is really where the ASG's attorneys were morons. They should never have allowed a clause where Belkin could buy them out at pennies on the dollar to be part of the deal.

You are right there AHF and I should have responded as such initially. I was caught up in the moment arguing with ex.

Belkin had the first right of appraisal and likely did it fairly honestly (maybe sorta rigged). Then he (or his smart lawyers) saw an opening and exploited it. I would expect that the second appraisal was a "bought and paid for" deal...and that Belkin regrets it now - it was too obvious. A smart guy would insure the cost variations would be minimal considering that the lower one is the price in a buyout situation anyway. This is where Belkin stumbled. The second appraisal should have been within a few thousands of the first. He may have wanted to intimidate the other owners with his second appraisal - but that wasn't smart. Had both appraisals come in close Belkin would have been in a much better situation right now. JMHO.

[DJlaysitup]

When the owners hire a GM they do it with the belief that the GM knows basketball better than they do and can make better basketball decisions. They realistically have to either support the GM's moves or fire him.

Which - by the way - they did (fire him I mean).

[DJlaysitup]

The Hawks were a 13 win team at the time of the trade. They were a long way from being competitive no matter what.

Gosh ex - this April post of yours is fertile ground - I didn't notice it before. So....how EXACTLY do you get to be a 13 win NBA team (and almost get the worst record ever). You think Belkin's moves were a conspiracy - I say BK's moves were a conspiracy. He knew if he busted this team down to NBADL level then he could cash paychecks while they got to 26 wins and 30 wins. If you tried that in other towns they would run you out on a rail...but here..with our ownership watching pucks..he could get away with it.

[exodus]

Gosh ex - this April post of yours is fertile ground - I didn't notice it before. So....how EXACTLY do you get to be a 13 win NBA team (and almost get the worst record ever). You think Belkin's moves were a conspiracy - I say BK's moves were a conspiracy. He knew if he busted this team down to NBADL level then he could cash paychecks while they got to 26 wins and 30 wins. If you tried that in other towns they would run you out on a rail...but here..with our ownership watching pucks..he could get away with it.

WTF are you talking about? You sure do come up with some nonsense. Belkin knew full well what the state of the Hawks was when he bought in. He knew they were blowing up the roster and starting over. If he had a problem with it then he shouldn't have bought the team in the first place.

You really make no sense.

[TroyMcClure]

WTF are you talking about? You sure do come up with some nonsense. Belkin knew full well what the state of the Hawks was when he bought in. He knew they were blowing up the roster and starting over. If he had a problem with it then he shouldn't have bought the team in the first place.

You really make no sense.

It also makes no sense to assume that "blowing up" the roster automatically equals 13 wins. That team could have won more games. But it's much better to play the likes of a Royal Ivey over a Jon Barry, right? I think possibly, Belkin really had no idea just what kind of losers Billy Knight and his buddy Mike Woodson were. Just for the sake of argument, but I think Belkin bought in to the idea of actually rebuilding, not the cheap facade the ASG have put up. And to do that, you can't give away the world for the likes of Joe Johnson.

[exodus]

It also makes no sense to assume that "blowing up" the roster automatically equals 13 wins. That team could have won more games. But it's much better to play the likes of a Royal Ivey over a Jon Barry, right? I think possibly, Belkin really had no idea just what kind of losers Billy Knight and his buddy Mike Woodson were. Just for the sake of argument, but I think Belkin bought in to the idea of actually rebuilding, not the cheap facade the ASG have put up. And to do that, you can't give away the world for the likes of Joe Johnson.

In what universe is trading a 4/2 player and two protected first rounders giving up the world?

The Hawks got a 3 time All-Star in that deal and the Suns have never been as good as they were with JJ. They started looking to trade Diaw almost as soon as they resigned him and they just traded the picks for cash.

Any time you blow up a roster and clear out everyone you are going to suck. Going into the '04 offseason the Hawks had only 2 players under contract.

If Belkin was really interested in rebuilding he wouldn't have tried to sabatoge the entire ownership group over a draft pick, which is exactly what he did according to DJ.

BTW Royal Ivey wasn't on the 13 win team.

Edited May 12, 2009 by exodus

[saiff]

At the time of the trade, most analysts felt the Suns were not going to match a max offer to JJ because it either would have knocked them way into the luxury tax threshold or it would have the next year with a bunch of contracts that had to be redone (i cant remember exactly what it was at that time). Simply offering a max contract possibly would have gotten us JJ without any compensation for the Suns. Its unfair to say Belkin didnt want JJ because it appeared to be that he just wanted him for a smaller price which was obtainable. So I agree that we gave up the world since we could have just given a country.

Belkin seems to be much smarter than the other ASG folks. The ASG folks seem to be dumb financially, and dumb in a business and legal sense plus we are not sure if they have any money to really spend on the Hawks since the only reason Belkin is part of the group is because of his deep pockets.

My dream is that Arthur Blank, upset that he did not get the Braves, settles for the Hawks and turns this around.

SF

http://saifbet.blogspot.com/

In what universe is trading a 4/2 player and two protected first rounders giving up the world?

The Hawks got a 3 time All-Star in that deal and the Suns have never been as good as they were with JJ. They started looking to trade Diaw almost as soon as they resigned him and they just traded the picks for cash.

Any time you blow up a roster and clear out everyone you are going to suck. Going into the '04 offseason the Hawks had only 2 players under contract.

If Belkin was really interested in rebuilding he wouldn't have tried to sabatoge the entire ownership group over a draft pick, which is exactly what he did according to DJ.

BTW Royal Ivey wasn't on the 13 win team.

[exodus]

At the time of the trade, most analysts felt the Suns were not going to match a max offer to JJ because it either would have knocked them way into the luxury tax threshold or it would have the next year with a bunch of contracts that had to be redone (i cant remember exactly what it was at that time).

Most analysts also felt that JJ was a lock to get resigned by the Suns before free agency started. There was never any mention of JJ possibly leaving until the Hawks made JJ a max offer.

Whether or not the suns would have matched is just speculation.

Its unfair to say Belkin didnt want JJ because it appeared to be that he just wanted him for a smaller price which was obtainable. So I agree that we gave up the world since we could have just given a country

According to DJ (who has no source of course) Belkin approved trading Diaw and a pick for JJ. So the additional pick being thrown is caused Belkin not only to disapprove of the deal but to sue the other partners to stop it.

He sued his partners less than two years after he signed the contract buying the team. That certainly doesn't seem smart to me if he actually intended to be a long term owner of the Hawks.