C-Webb rips Josh Smith for shooting jumpers

[High5]

As far as Webber's ability, it is probably unfair to call him a bum. But, he was never on the level of some of the guys you are mentioning - Amare?! Ha, he wishes. Bosh? Nope, almost.

Webber was never a winner. He won some on good teams but always lost a lot too.

Northcyde calling him a "borderline HOFer" is frickin ludicrous, too.

Amare and Bosh wish they could be as good as Webber. If not for injuries Webber would be an absolute lock for the HOF. He still has a shot.

[TroyMcClure]

Get off your high horse. Especially considering "bball knowledge". Webber was considered around the league to have a good jump shot. In fact, that was one of his strengths as a player. In fact I remember the Lakers wanting him because he would have fit in to their triangle offense effectively with that jump shot. Saying it was a weakness to his game shows your true agenda. That or your actual limited knowledge. Do me a favor and look up how, at the time, the rest of the league felt about his jump shot. I think you might learn something.

Do me a favor and look up how, at the time, the rest of the league felt about his jump shot. I think you might learn something.

First off, that is in practice, an impossibility. So for you to propose it is just dumb. Secondly, the ability to hit a shot and the ability to know when to properly take it in the context of the game, are two different things. and you will never find any legitimate player say Webber had a great j. No one.

And again, if he hit so many j's, why all the first round defeats? Maybe because the team's success was incidental to Webber's?

[TroyMcClure]

Useless words that apparently you have a hard time reading. He said he was tougher than Josh and as of right now I'd have to agree. That doesn't mean he was a tough physical player, it means he was tougher than Josh. You don't have to have played the game to agree with that.

So you're telling me one of the best passing PF's (arguably) to ever play the game (averaged 4+ assists) is selfish? OK. I'm not Webber fan (I've hated him since college) but some of the opinions I am reading seem to be based on their loathing of a player moreso than reality. The guy averaged 20 and 10 for a loooong time and would have had a ring had it not been for the zebras. To say he isn't a winner, is lazy and selfish (basketball wise) is flat out ridiculous.

In what world is a big man who plays small, tougher than a smaller man who plays big? Not mine. Or Josh Smith's. He's the size of a 3 playing 4. But Webber was just so tough, standing at the top and passing half the time? Whatever.

[buckeye242424]

In what world is a big man who plays small, tougher than a smaller man who plays big? Not mine. Or Josh Smith's. He's the size of a 3 playing 4. But Webber was just so tough, standing at the top and passing half the time? Whatever.

I guess this post might be banned for my lack of basketball knowledge in regards to Webber's ability to score. I guess 20 a game over 13 years says he was chopped liver shooting the ball. As far as other Hall of Famers, Webber's career is on par with PF's that are a lock for the HOF. Hell, he averaged more points and assists than Tim Duncan has in his career. Oh, right, can't compare him to Duncan because he has all the rings and star players on his team. How about Barkley (22 pts, 11.7 boards, 3.9 assists) or Malone (25 points, 10 boards, 3.6 assists) ? I think it's safe to say those two are locks...and Webber's statistical career is in no shape inferior to what those two did. He may not be worthy, not my decision...but to think he doesn't deserve a sniff of the HOF for what he did in the NBA strictly from stats is stupid. In 2001, Webber averaged 27, 11, and 4.3. One could argue he was the best PF on the planet during that time.

[Dsinner]

First off, that is in practice, an impossibility. So for you to propose it is just dumb. Secondly, the ability to hit a shot and the ability to know when to properly take it in the context of the game, are two different things. and you will never find any legitimate player say Webber had a great j. No one.

And again, if he hit so many j's, why all the first round defeats? Maybe because the team's success was incidental to Webber's?

What is an impossibility? To research interviews and news articles on the web?

Who ever said he had a "great" J or for that matter who ever said the argument was knowing when to take the jumper. Now you're not even in the same conversation and are simply making stuff up. My argument was CLEARLY whether or not he had a good jumper. Now you want to change it to whether or not he was a smart basketball player or had a "great" jumper.

Those first round defeats were because of Shaq, Kobe and the refs. Jordan couldn't have defeated Shaq in his prime with Kobe AND the zebras. It wasn't solely because of Webber I can assure you.

[Dsinner]

Dude, put down the pipe. So, the annonymous opinion of blahblah.com and such PROVES your point? Seriously, that's just stupid. Find at least one quote from a HOF shooter and maybe I'll reconsider.

It proves it was common knowledge around basketball that he had a good jump shot. Your problem is you can't seem to differentiate between "good" and "great". Why would a HOF player comment on a "good" jumper. Talk about finding the impossible. In fact, it's even "dumb" of you to think I could find such. Sound familiar?

[buckeye242424]

It proves it was common knowledge around basketball that he had a good jump shot. Your problem is you can't seem to differentiate between "good" and "great". Why would a HOF player comment on a "good" jumper. Talk about finding the impossible. In fact, it's even "dumb" of you to think I could find such. Sound familiar?

They wouldn't. That's why you won't find one. But experts of various media outlets that do have a say about the HOF say things like this:

Webber always put up big numbers (he averaged 20.7 points, 9.8 rebounds, and 4.2 assists for his whole career.) and will likely be a candidate for the Hall of Fame. Webber's soft hands and natural court sense made him one of the most prolific big-man passers in NBA history. The Golden State Warriors did not make the playoffs during the first 12 years after they traded Webber. In 1997, he led Washington to their first playoff appearance since 1989. They would not reach the playoffs again until 2005, seven years after trading Webber. Prior to Webber's arrival in 1998, the Kings made the playoffs only twice (1985 and 1996) since they moved to Sacramento from Kansas City in 1985.

Webber was ranked #64 in SLAM Magazine's Top 75 NBA Players of all time in 2003.

Webber was ranked #11 in an Espn.com experts poll of the top power forwards of all time in 2008.

Webber is one of only six players to have career averages of 20 points, 9 rebounds, and 4 assists (Four of which are Hall of Famers: Baylor, Bird, Chamberlain, Cunningham. Kevin Garnett is still active)

[Dsinner]

In what world is a big man who plays small, tougher than a smaller man who plays big? Not mine. Or Josh Smith's. He's the size of a 3 playing 4. But Webber was just so tough, standing at the top and passing half the time? Whatever.

You don't lead the NBA in rebounding by playing smaller than you actually are. You also don't AVERAGE 10 boards a game for a long career. Seriously what's your formula for evaluating a player? You think a rebounding champion plays smaller than their stature? Funny.

With that above post I now see your agenda. You don't like big guys who play at the top. I get it. I'm not a big fan of it myself. But you're using that to mischaracterize a player to do what only 4? other players have EVER done. 3 of those are in the HOF and one is still playing. I'm not saying Webber is a HOFer but he's a lot better than you're giving him credit for.

[Dsinner]

Webber is one of only six players to have career averages of 20 points, 9 rebounds, and 4 assists (Four of which are Hall of Famers: Baylor, Bird, Chamberlain, Cunningham. Kevin Garnett is still active)

Ahh, it was 6. I've never liked the guy as a person or an analyst but as a player you have to give him his dues.

[buckeye242424]

Ahh, it was 6. I've never liked the guy as a person or an analyst but as a player you have to give him his dues.

Exactly.

[Dsinner]

And again, if he hit so many j's, why all the first round defeats? Maybe because the team's success was incidental to Webber's?

I'll answer this question, although I think it speaks volumes on how your agenda affects your perceived few of reality. I agree with you in that I do believe the teams success was incidental to Webbers. The flaw from your standpoint is that in the 6 years he helped lead them into the playoffs (every year he was there) only twice did they fail to make it out of the first round. One of those being to the Champion Lakers. So I now ask you..WTF are you talking about?

So hopefully you can somehow manage to see that your view of his past is extremely skewed no matter how much bball you've played in your past. As you can see the amount of high school ball you play does not always equal the amount of ball knowledge you posses.

[AHF]

82games

2002-03 Webber Jump Shot 39.8% efg%

http://www.82games.com/02SAC11A.HTM

2003-04 Webber Jump Shot 33.7% efg%

http://www.82games.com/03SAC9A.HTM

2004-05 Webber Jump Shot 37.4% efg%

http://www.82games.com/04SAC15A.HTM

2005-06 Webber Jump Shot 35.4% efg%

http://www.82games.com/0506/05PHI13A.HTM

2006-07 Webber Philly Jump Shot 28.5% efg%

http://www.82games.com/0607/06PHI15A.HTM

2006-07 Webber Detroit Jump Shot 34% efg%

http://www.82games.com/0607/06DET12A.HTM

******

Color me less than blown away with Webber's incredible jump shot. He ranks slightly above Smooth this season but WAY below Flip Murray as a jump shooter.

2008-09 Flip Murray Jump Shot 46.1% efg%

http://www.82games.com/0809/08ATL5.HTM#pstats

2008-09 Josh Smith Jump Shot 34.9% efg%

http://www.82games.com/0809/08ATL11.HTM#pstats

Not the stuff of legend.

[exodus]

82games

2002-03 Webber Jump Shot 39.8% efg%

http://www.82games.com/02SAC11A.HTM

2003-04 Webber Jump Shot 33.7% efg%

http://www.82games.com/03SAC9A.HTM

2004-05 Webber Jump Shot 37.4% efg%

http://www.82games.com/04SAC15A.HTM

2005-06 Webber Jump Shot 35.4% efg%

http://www.82games.com/0506/05PHI13A.HTM

2006-07 Webber Philly Jump Shot 28.5% efg%

http://www.82games.com/0607/06PHI15A.HTM

2006-07 Webber Detroit Jump Shot 34% efg%

http://www.82games.com/0607/06DET12A.HTM

******

Color me less than blown away with Webber's incredible jump shot. He ranks slightly above Smooth this season but WAY below Flip Murray as a jump shooter.

2008-09 Flip Murray Jump Shot 46.1% efg%

http://www.82games.com/0809/08ATL5.HTM#pstats

2008-09 Josh Smith Jump Shot 34.9% efg%

http://www.82games.com/0809/08ATL11.HTM#pstats

Not the stuff of legend.

Wow. I wasn't a fan of his shot but i thought he was better than that.

[AHF]

To me, Webber's jump shot was solid for a PF (nothing special ala Dirk) but his reliance on it came at the expense of his post play which limited his potential. Still, I do think you have to give the guy his due. He was a true All-Star for much of his career.

[TroyMcClure]

I'll answer this question, although I think it speaks volumes on how your agenda affects your perceived few of reality. I agree with you in that I do believe the teams success was incidental to Webbers. The flaw from your standpoint is that in the 6 years he helped lead them into the playoffs (every year he was there) only twice did they fail to make it out of the first round. One of those being to the Champion Lakers. So I now ask you..WTF are you talking about?

So hopefully you can somehow manage to see that your view of his past is extremely skewed no matter how much bball you've played in your past. As you can see the amount of high school ball you play does not always equal the amount of ball knowledge you posses.

The flaw from your standpoint is that in the 6 years he helped lead them into the playoffs (every year he was there) only twice did they fail to make it out of the first round.

It was 7 years. Look it up. The Kings with Webber(and many others) lost in the first round exactly 3 times. The first two years and the last one. In between they went to the semis, the CF, the semis, and the semis, in that order.

I have a personal viewpoint of how basketball should be played and I do not appreciate his style of play. He thought he was a lot more talented and entitled than he should have. And he's just a jerk of a human being. Guess what, you're still a human being on a basketball court.

Josh Smith, has the potential to be a very good shooter from the outside. It's all about coaching and floor rhythm and chemistry. Of which, we don't have much. Say what you will about him but Josh Smith tries really hard. IMO, the same thing can't be said for Webber.

[TroyMcClure]

You don't lead the NBA in rebounding by playing smaller than you actually are. You also don't AVERAGE 10 boards a game for a long career. Seriously what's your formula for evaluating a player? You think a rebounding champion plays smaller than their stature? Funny.

With that above post I now see your agenda. You don't like big guys who play at the top. I get it. I'm not a big fan of it myself. But you're using that to mischaracterize a player to do what only 4? other players have EVER done. 3 of those are in the HOF and one is still playing. I'm not saying Webber is a HOFer but he's a lot better than you're giving him credit for.

To your first point : I refer to Sir Charles. You could put a 6'10" broom on the floor and 10 rebounds will find it. He should have averaged at least 10 rebounds.

To the second : I actually love intelligent players with a jumper playing the high post. Also, they have to be able to pass and cut hard, set picks and be able to both pop and roll. Webber just made backdoor passes and threw up bricks. Poor floor chemistry, imo. The Kings could have been a whole lot better had Webber defered more, imo.

[thecampster]

LOL dude this cracked me up. Hot you are underappreciated around here. Way to keep it real.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

I would argue with Troy, but Buckeye and Sinner have already destroyed any notion that Webber was a "bum" who won't get any HOF consideration.

LOL @ Troy . . I did play a little baksetball. Played organized ball starting at age 7.

I wasn't a great player in high school, but good enough to make a few All-District teams and good enough to get a scholorship at a very small school, which was a JUCO at the time. Only stayed there one year though, due to lack of PT. Then I tried to walk-on at U of Tennessee ( when they were really sorry in the early 90s ), but got cut.

So I know a little bit about the game.

All I know, is that Webber was pretty much the ish during his first 8 - 10 years of his career. Most people with basketball knowledge, even if they didn't like him, would agree with that. And damn, I forgot about he and Juwan Howard getting the Bullets to the playoffs. That team was inconsistent as hell, like the Hawks last year. But they were fun to watch.

From Troy:

"Josh Smith, has the potential to be a very good shooter from the outside."

WOW!!! . . . . Just wow.

That's almost worthy to be a signature tag line.

[bumpyphish1]

What have Bosh and Amare done that is so much more impressive than Webber? I am no fan of Webbers but it isn't like Amare has been the #1 guy on a good team. In fact, when he hasn't had fantastic talent surrounding him he has not seemed to elevate his team at all. He does put up big numbers and master some good old-fashioned ole defense, though!

I'd say a similar description applies to Bosh (labeled by the Sports Guy the last two years as the next Shareef Abdur Rahim, which I think is too harsh a label but is one that his played hasn't allowed him to shake).

Amare has already had as much playoff success as Webber and is how old, 24? Come on, AHF. You are smarter than that. I know you and respect you.

[bumpyphish1]

I think it's also worth mentioning that Webber's "prime" coincided with probably the worst 5 or 6 year period the NBA has experienced in three decades. He wasnt exactly playing against a lot of legendary players. Sure he played at the same time Barkley was winding down his career. But to imply that they are basketball peers is far from accurate (Northcyde).