A different view of the League.

[Diesel]

Do you think it's possible that Stern is making the road easy for Bron so that Bron will stay in Cleveland?

There's a thought that Bron has to believe that he can win in Cleveland. What better to prove that he can win than if he sweeps the East? What about a sweep to the championship? This playoffs might be all about 2010 as far as Stern is considered.

[dlpin]

From a league perspective, Lebron in New York would be a lot more profitable.

The reason he gets the beneficial treatment is because ever since Jordan this is a superstar league. They do it because they think the more the superstars shine, the more money they make. But I doubt it has anything to do with wanting him to stay at cleveland.

[NJHAWK]

I dont think its about 2010. I think the league isnt doing great with the econmy and with the obvious deteriation of the game itself. What better way to bring people who are casual fans or people who could care less about bball unless there is some spectacle like Lebron involved ( ala Jordon ). To Stern he is the future of the league for at least 10 years. Wade is injury prone and Miami is just too young, Kobe is the best of the lot but he doesnt have alot of great years left. People in this country are front runners and love to root for one guy in a sport who looks like he can dominate, its the lazy American way. Why do you think you can go to some shyyt town in eastjabbip and see alot of Yankee and Steeler hats. Stern wants you to see Lebron James jerseys in those towns.

[Diesel]

From a league perspective, Lebron in New York would be a lot more profitable.

The reason he gets the beneficial treatment is because ever since Jordan this is a superstar league. They do it because they think the more the superstars shine, the more money they make. But I doubt it has anything to do with wanting him to stay at cleveland.

No...

That's a Lebron View... not a league view.

From a league View, Cleveland is a big City that's a small Market.

What if Lebron can do for Cleveland what Jordan did for Chicago?

Stern doesn't want the same 3 teams being the major teams in the nba.. (i.e. the major markets). He would like to see more major markets develop.

Now, I agree that Stern "protects his star players" as he calls it. However, I would be willing to bet that Lebron staying in Cleveland is something that Stern wouldn't be upset about.

[Diesel]

I dont think its about 2010. I think the league isnt doing great with the econmy and with the obvious deteriation of the game itself. What better way to bring people who are casual fans or people who could care less about bball unless there is some spectacle like Lebron involved ( ala Jordon ). To Stern he is the future of the league for at least 10 years. Wade is injury prone and Miami is just too young, Kobe is the best of the lot but he doesnt have alot of great years left. People in this country are front runners and love to root for one guy in a sport who looks like he can dominate, its the lazy American way. Why do you think you can go to some shyyt town in eastjabbip and see alot of Yankee and Steeler hats. Stern wants you to see Lebron James jerseys in those towns.

This is what I see... I don't think that Stern wants to stockpile the Knicks as they have talked about. The Knicks can have Wade. The knicks will always attract fans. When was the last time they didn't have sellout?

The thing is.... While watching game 2, they showed the city of Cleveland.

There was not one car moving on the streets. No headlights moving around the building or in the city. The reason why is because every Cleveland citizen was at home or at the arena watching the Cavs. You take Lebron away, you lose a market.

[NJHAWK]

This is what I see... I don't think that Stern wants to stockpile the Knicks as they have talked about. The Knicks can have Wade. The knicks will always attract fans. When was the last time they didn't have sellout?

The thing is.... While watching game 2, they showed the city of Cleveland.

There was not one car moving on the streets. No headlights moving around the building or in the city. The reason why is because every Cleveland citizen was at home or at the arena watching the Cavs. You take Lebron away, you lose a market.

You make a point but I think its bigger than that. I think Stern needs Lebron to look dominate like MJ so the league matters again. Its no secret the league has fallen since MJ's glory days and while the Spurs were a great team they werent exactly marketable. Why do you think they are practically doing shoe commercials during Cavs games. Lebron is only 24 and Stern wants the league to ride his coat tails starting now.

[NJHAWK]

Was Lebron one of the guys who made a comment about playing overseas for 50 mill a year? Maybe that scared Stern shyytless. lol

[Diesel]

You make a point but I think its bigger than that. I think Stern needs Lebron to look dominate like MJ so the league matters again. Its no secret the league has fallen since MJ's glory days and while the Spurs were a great team they werent exactly marketable. Why do you think they are practically doing shoe commercials during Cavs games. Lebron is only 24 and Stern wants the league to ride his coat tails starting now.

Well, let's not forget what spurred Stern onto this personality sells the game mentality. It wasn't Jordan that got Stern believing this mantra. It was Bird vs. Magic. Right now, for Stern, I don't think it matters about team play therefore, it doesn't matter what team Lebron plays for. For Stern to be able to sell the game, he needs those personalities for Lebron to play against.

Do you know how much Stern would love it if he could have:

Lebron vs. the remanents of the big three.

Lebron vs. Dwight Howard.

Lebron vs. Wade and the Knicks.

then

Lebron vs. Kobe

from 2010 to 2015?

Just like:

Jordan vs. the Hawks

Jordan vs. the Pacers.

Jordan vs. the Knicks.

then

Jordan vs. the Jazz

or whatever other superstar driven team that Stern could Market.

What Stern fears is the lack of superstars, the rising of a team, and playoff series that have:

Piston vs. Spurs.

or

Nets vs. Spurs

Remember those two finals? Most people don't. Because those two finals were really driven by teams and not personalities.

It's hard to market a Piston team where anybody can be the star. Same goes with the Spurs. It's hard to market a Nets team that is driven by the most team oriented player the game has seen since Cousy.

Stern wants no teams. IF you have no superstars, don't apply.

Was Lebron one of the guys who made a comment about playing overseas for 50 mill a year? Maybe that scared Stern shyytless. lol

Yeah.

You know Lebron would never do it. However, you have to have some chips to bargain with.

[dlpin]

No...

That's a Lebron View... not a league view.

From a league View, Cleveland is a big City that's a small Market.

What if Lebron can do for Cleveland what Jordan did for Chicago?

Stern doesn't want the same 3 teams being the major teams in the nba.. (i.e. the major markets). He would like to see more major markets develop.

Now, I agree that Stern "protects his star players" as he calls it. However, I would be willing to bet that Lebron staying in Cleveland is something that Stern wouldn't be upset about.

You can't even compare Cleveland and Chicago. Chicago is a much, much bigger market than Cleveland. The population is bigger, the disposable income is bigger. More importantly, there are way more corporations in Chicago, and that is a lot of revenue comes from, with the courtside seats and skyboxes. Cleveland is already at its peak in terms of revenue. Lebron in New York would be a dream come true for the league in terms of revenue.

The reason he gets the treatment he gets is because they want to make him an icon, regardless of where he is playing.

The idea that the league is doing this to keep him in cleveland, as opposed to just giving stars the benefit of the doubt generally, is ludicrous. Cleveland is relatively small for a metro area, and is very economically depressed.

[DrReality]

Bron is the new face for the league and he can do that anywhere. Don't see him going to NY. They'd have to give up half their team for him and the craziness there would not suit James.

[dlpin]

Bron is the new face for the league and he can do that anywhere. Don't see him going to NY. They'd have to give up half their team for him and the craziness there would not suit James.

The whole issue of him going to New York is as a free agent in a year, so they wouldnt have to give up anything (and it is not like half their team is worth anything). But whether or not he is going is completely beside the point.

The issue is not whether he would go to NY, but whether, as Diesel claims, the NBA is fixing the road to an NBA title for Lebron with the main intent of keeping him in Cleveland.

[NJHAWK]

The whole issue of him going to New York is as a free agent in a year, so they wouldnt have to give up anything (and it is not like half their team is worth anything). But whether or not he is going is completely beside the point.

The issue is not whether he would go to NY, but whether, as Diesel claims, the NBA is fixing the road to an NBA title for Lebron with the main intent of keeping him in Cleveland.

Again I dont think they a fixing it to keep him in Clevalnd even if they want him to stay there. I think the are fixing it so he becomes the larger than life Jordon type superstar that the league can milk for the next 10 years. Its about the league on a whole not the city of Clevland.

[dlpin]

Again I dont think they a fixing it to keep him in Clevalnd even if they want him to stay there. I think the are fixing it so he becomes the larger than life Jordon type superstar that the league can milk for the next 10 years. Its about the league on a whole not the city of Clevland.

And if you read what I said, you are basically agreeing with what Im saying. Diesel is the one claiming that the league is fixing it all so he doesn't want to leave cleveland.

[MaceCase]

You can't even compare Cleveland and Chicago. Chicago is a much, much bigger market than Cleveland. The population is bigger, the disposable income is bigger. More importantly, there are way more corporations in Chicago, and that is a lot of revenue comes from, with the courtside seats and skyboxes. Cleveland is already at its peak in terms of revenue. Lebron in New York would be a dream come true for the league in terms of revenue.

The reason he gets the treatment he gets is because they want to make him an icon, regardless of where he is playing.

The idea that the league is doing this to keep him in cleveland, as opposed to just giving stars the benefit of the doubt generally, is ludicrous. Cleveland is relatively small for a metro area, and is very economically depressed.

Yea I'm pretty sure that Chicago is the 3rd largest media market after NY and LA and as great as Jordan was I doubt he was solely responsible for that. The thing about this is that even though Boston and LA are the most storied franchises with their legendary players, coaches, and numerous championships, New York is still considered the flagship franchise of the league. It's frustrating as a fan of basketball that a franchise with not nearly as much success as those other two franchises is even considered in the same breath.

Some feel that in order for a sports league to succeed they have to succeed in New York and luck, or iluminati deals, would have it that the Yankees have been dominant through out baseball history, the Giants have had succees, I don't watch hockey so can't speak on the Rangers but lagging behind all them are the Knicks. The Knicks haven't won anything in the modern media era and the most iconic anything to come out the franchise is the building they play in. For fans of every other sports league they all have New York to look to as an icon of hate for their white collar attitude but their franchises are still respected. The Knicks on the other hand are a laughingstock and if not for the market they play in woud be considered in the same sentence as "lesser" teams like the Bengals or Clippers.

People tend to forget that Stern is a "homer" and no one can understand the fits he has that a player of Lebron's talent and personality is playing in a medium market while his flagship home team is muddling through scandal, incompetance and far worse to him, irrelevancy. Lebron is being built up more than Kobe and Dwade because they already play in large markets so the NBA is trying to craft the perfect marketing storm where "the native son of Ohio brought his home team to the mountain tops but now must transcend the heavens and realise his manifest destiny " or some crap like that

[Diesel]

You can't even compare Cleveland and Chicago. Chicago is a much, much bigger market than Cleveland. The population is bigger, the disposable income is bigger. More importantly, there are way more corporations in Chicago, and that is a lot of revenue comes from, with the courtside seats and skyboxes. Cleveland is already at its peak in terms of revenue. Lebron in New York would be a dream come true for the league in terms of revenue.

The reason he gets the treatment he gets is because they want to make him an icon, regardless of where he is playing.

The idea that the league is doing this to keep him in cleveland, as opposed to just giving stars the benefit of the doubt generally, is ludicrous. Cleveland is relatively small for a metro area, and is very economically depressed.

Uhm. The gate is not as big as it used to be. In Basketball's dark age before Bird and Johnson back when you had Phoenix and Denver playing against the Knicks and the Bullets... sure the gate was huge back then. However, basketball has transitioned beyond the gate. Just to prove the point, basketball and Hockey has about the same number of attendance per year at the gate. However, the average basketball team's valuation is about 375 million whereas the average Hockey team's valuation is only 200 million. How is that possible? TV Contracts.

Like i said before, you take Lebron out of Cleveland, you lose a market. The Cleveland Market would quickly depress. NY is a media Giant anyway. Why mess with it? It's like giving Lou Ferignoe Steroids. At some point, there's no more purpose in giving the NY market more stars. How did it work out with A-Rod? The Yankees would have still been the Yankees without him. The NY market will always be looking for another Pat Ewing to walk through the door. They will always cry for another Kobe or another Shaq. However, that doesn't mean that they should get it. It doesn't help the league. Now, what happens on the other end of the spectrum... Let's say you allow Lebron to stay in Cleveland. Cleveland becomes a basketball town. Just like Green Bay and Cleveland in Football... small markets can grow if you allow them. That's the experiment that Stern is probably willing to try... because the thing that matters most is can he get a good TV contract with James.

What James have to consider is leaving his hometown. We're talking hometown. Not some place he was drafted to first. We're talking the place that raised him. OH. Especially after making a championship run. Because then the question and thought would be, you left us to make more money.

[AtLaS]

Diesel, LeBron is INFINITELY more valuable to the NBA in New York. It's not even close, actually. There are 10x more people in NY than Cleveland. Thus, TV ratings for NY games will increase drastically. Since there are 10x more Knicks fans as opposed to Cavs fans around the country, the amount of merchandise sold will skyrocket.

Jordan was not the reason for Chicago, they've were the 3rd largest market for years before that. Boston is a storied franchise, yet they are still in the 4th largest market.

As far as LeBron's incentives, there really aren't any big market reasons for him to go to NY as his Nike contract has no big market incentives. But, his Nike contract ends in 2010 as well and it's possible that he'd get a higher contract in the future if he's in NY relative to Cleveland.

Regardless, there is absolutely no question that the NBA in terms of revenue has better benefits with LeBron in NY.

[dlpin]

Uhm. The gate is not as big as it used to be. In Basketball's dark age before Bird and Johnson back when you had Phoenix and Denver playing against the Knicks and the Bullets... sure the gate was huge back then. However, basketball has transitioned beyond the gate. Just to prove the point, basketball and Hockey has about the same number of attendance per year at the gate. However, the average basketball team's valuation is about 375 million whereas the average Hockey team's valuation is only 200 million. How is that possible? TV Contracts.

Like i said before, you take Lebron out of Cleveland, you lose a market. The Cleveland Market would quickly depress. NY is a media Giant anyway. Why mess with it? It's like giving Lou Ferignoe Steroids. At some point, there's no more purpose in giving the NY market more stars. How did it work out with A-Rod? The Yankees would have still been the Yankees without him. The NY market will always be looking for another Pat Ewing to walk through the door. They will always cry for another Kobe or another Shaq. However, that doesn't mean that they should get it. It doesn't help the league. Now, what happens on the other end of the spectrum... Let's say you allow Lebron to stay in Cleveland. Cleveland becomes a basketball town. Just like Green Bay and Cleveland in Football... small markets can grow if you allow them. That's the experiment that Stern is probably willing to try... because the thing that matters most is can he get a good TV contract with James.

What James have to consider is leaving his hometown. We're talking hometown. Not some place he was drafted to first. We're talking the place that raised him. OH. Especially after making a championship run. Because then the question and thought would be, you left us to make more money.

Im sorry, but that is total nonsense. The gate is still huge. And you are forgetting about the local media deals. Do you really think the NBA is worried about Cleveland as a market? In terms of household income, Cleveland is 85th in the nation for metro areas. In terms of population, its 26th.

According to Forbes, the Knicks operating income, as pathetic as they are, is more than double that of the cavs. In luxury suites alone, the Knicks have 89 that go for half a mill a season.

Cleveland is such a pathetic market, that even with the best team and best player in the league, Cleveland is 13th in the league in % seats filled for the season, behind, yes, the knicks.

http://espn.go.com/nba/attendance?sort=hom...mp;seasonType=2

For last season, the Knicks had 50 million more in revenues than the Cavs, and this is with the Cavs getting to the second round of the playoffs and going 7 games with Boston.

And this all without getting into the media market. The local NY media market is top in the nation. And this is without getting into the added visibilty that Lebron would have there.

They give Lebron the calls and the treatment because they want their superstars to shine and sell the game. But to say that the league prefers Cleveland to do well over new york, and that is why they are trying to get him to stay in cleveland, is ridiculous.

[Diesel]

Diesel, LeBron is INFINITELY more valuable to the NBA in New York. It's not even close, actually. There are 10x more people in NY than Cleveland. Thus, TV ratings for NY games will increase drastically. Since there are 10x more Knicks fans as opposed to Cavs fans around the country, the amount of merchandise sold will skyrocket.

Jordan was not the reason for Chicago, they've were the 3rd largest market for years before that. Boston is a storied franchise, yet they are still in the 4th largest market.

As far as LeBron's incentives, there really aren't any big market reasons for him to go to NY as his Nike contract has no big market incentives. But, his Nike contract ends in 2010 as well and it's possible that he'd get a higher contract in the future if he's in NY relative to Cleveland.

Regardless, there is absolutely no question that the NBA in terms of revenue has better benefits with LeBron in NY.

This is Cleveland... Ranked #5

This is NY...Ranked #1

NY is already #1 of all NBA teams as far as team valuations go. Cleveland just jumped to #5. They made their stride in 2003. Damn, what happened in 2003 that took them from 72 Million per year revenue to 93 Million per year. What made their value jump from 40 million to 88 million? 1 player. What happens when he leaves...

As I have been saying the NBA loses a market.

What happens in NY?

Well, sheez... regardless of what happens in NY, they will always make money.

This is what you fail to realize. you say that NY getting Lebron will be "infinitely more value" to the NBA. I disagree. If your market draws are going to larger markets, that doesn't help your league. You may as well just go back to a 16 team league and hope that you can increase the popularity of the game with competitiveness..... :sad:

[Diesel]

Do you really think the NBA is worried about Cleveland as a market? In terms of household income, Cleveland is 85th in the nation for metro areas. In terms of population, its 26th.

According to Forbes, the Knicks operating income, as pathetic as they are, is more than double that of the cavs. In luxury suites alone, the Knicks have 89 that go for half a mill a season.

According to Forbes....

Cleveland is the 5th most valuable team in the league. According to Forbes, they pull in the 5th highest amount of revenue. According to Forbes they just jumped Dallas, Houston, Phoenix, and Boston to be there. And if you look at the numbers inside... It starts and ends with Lebron. Without Lebron, they sink down to 28th in the market.

So does the NBA care about Cleveland? I think so. YOu lose Lebron, you lose a market.

[dlpin]

This is Cleveland... Ranked #5

This is NY...Ranked #1

NY is already #1 of all NBA teams as far as team valuations go. Cleveland just jumped to #5. They made their stride in 2003. Damn, what happened in 2003 that took them from 72 Million per year revenue to 93 Million per year. What made their value jump from 40 million to 88 million? 1 player. What happens when he leaves...

As I have been saying the NBA loses a market.

What happens in NY?

Well, sheez... regardless of what happens in NY, they will always make money.

This is what you fail to realize. you say that NY getting Lebron will be "infinitely more value" to the NBA. I disagree. If your market draws are going to larger markets, that doesn't help your league. You may as well just go back to a 16 team league and hope that you can increase the popularity of the game with competitiveness..... :sad:

You think that a market that has 50 million less in revenues than a lottery bound, pathetic team in a year they went deep into the playoffs supports your conclusions?

And if we follow your argument, why are big market teams even given more air time then? Why are big market teams given better treatment?

The last time the knicks went to the finals, against the same spurs, in a year with a lockout, finals ratings was 11.3. When Cleveland went to the finals, against the same spurs, the ratings were 6.2, the worst of all time.

They promote Lebron because this is a superstar league. They could care less about whether cleveland as a franchise is doing well.