A different view of the League.

[AHF]

In any case, cavs fans should really ask him, since he is the one who refuses to deny rumors of leaving, and even makes jokes every 3 months or so about going to NY. Remember when not too long ago when he made a joke about how fans of every other franchise hate him except cleveland.. and then he added "and new york" and cracked up laughing?

Exactly. Frankly, I hope he stays in Cleveland. I hate it when teams like the NY franchises buy someone else's franchise player. Cleveland drafted the guy, he is from Ohio, he should play his career out there. Why he hasn't denied rumors of leaving and embraced Cleveland as his long-term home is unknown to me.

[Joker]

And I agree completely that Lebron gets better treatment than even Jordan did. And i even posted stats on another thread to prove that. The point where we disagree is that you say this is so because they want to prevent him from going to their most valuable and richest franchise!

I think Lebron gets that treatment because Kobe is about as unlikeable a superstar you will ever have, and so they are putting all their eggs in the lebron basket. And I think that he would get the same treatment in Cleveland, NY or Oklahoma city. But the argument that they are doing this because they DON'T want Lebron in New York is absurd.

Can anyone really believe that Lebron would be so much less profitable in NY that they'd find a way for him to win in cleveland to prevent him from going to new york?

Kobe is like Tim Duncan in America, will never get the respect like he does internationally except in his city and by his fans. As for Lebron, I think leaving Cleveland would be a mistake being that Cleveland has a better staff, better owner, and a better GM for knowing what to put around Lebron. Like Shaq, Lebron likes fame and the spotlight and there is no light bigger then NY. Would Bron leaving Cleveland kill basketball in Cleveland? No, but it would sent them back to the half full attendance that they had before James arrived. James is who Cleveland is built around and unless you can find another one then you basically have to rebuild. Gilbert is a great owner much like Arthur Blank. James Dolan is not a good owner, to be honest Bruce Levenson is better. Dolan wears his heart on his sleeves and tries to hire his team employees like it's Cablevision. He needs to reconsider how is sturcture an organization. Whatever James decides to do, the NBA should not be at fault. James is a grown man, he can make his own decisions.

[Diesel]

So what you are saying is that cablevision, a publicly traded company, can essentially undervalue it's Knicks broadcasting rights in order to get out of the nba revenue sharing agreement? You do know that is fraud, right?

Besides, even if they could do what they are saying they do, they are still the top revenue team for the NBA, so that matters little.

And no, local TV is not the major revenue source for most teams.

The problem with revenue sharing in the nba is bigger than you know...

Here are some numbers to give you an idea of what I am talking about: In the NFL, the home team splits the gate 60-40 with the the away team. In the NBA, the home teams keep everything. In the NFL 70%-75% of team revenue comes from revenue sharing. In the NBA it is only 20%-25%. In the MLB 35% of each teams local media revenues (TV, Radio, etc.) are put into a pot and redistributed. There is no such agreement in the NBA. In the NBA $49 million was redistributed for revenue sharing (via the lux tax and the escrow system) in 2008, while the MLB redistributed $300 million in 2005.

Also see this:

“Our current economic system (whereby local television revenue and gate receipts are not shared among the league’s 30 franchises) works only for larger-market teams and a few teams that have extraordinary success on the court,” says a letter sent by eight owners to Stern this fall. Owners from all of the league’s smallest markets, including Charlotte, N.C., Memphis, Milwaukee, Wis., and New Orleans, signed the letter.

So you're right, TV deal won't matter if Lebron goes to NY.

Actually based on this, there won't be any extra value to the league if Lebron goes to NY (unless NY goes into the LTax again).

So now, we're talking... LBJ going to NY and killing a Clevland Market or LBJ staying in Cleveland...

If you're Stern, what do you want to happen??

I think case is closed here.

[CavalierObserver]

Actually the NBA would make a lot of money in international sales if a dynasty were to be built in the Big Apple. They could sell it better than Cleveland could- it definitely fits their international goals.

That being said, I have heard Stern say that he likes the idea of LeBron staying in Cleveland and building something special there. I would tell the conspiracy theorists not to expect anything on this one.

[LOL_Hawks]

I agree with AHF; there is nothing I hate more than when a New York team in baseball basically goes out and buys pretty much any all-star that they want. I hope that LeBron stays in Cleveland for that reason alone. Plus, it'd be hilarious to see all the New Yorkers and mainstream media with egg on their face when LeBron decides to stay in Cleveland.

[AtLaS]

Diesel, you do realize that TV ratings are huge in the value of commercials and value of national television contracts (not the local cablevision one you seem to be hellbent on)? You do realize that all NBA merchandise sells are split evenly with each team, right? If LeBron is in New York he will absolutely destroy the league in jersey, shoes, and many other licensed product sells.

With a team like NY being in the playoffs as opposed to the Cavs, the TV ratings will be much higher because there are lots more NBA fans.

I think it's fair to say that Stern would not mind if LeBron stayed in Cleveland, and he wouldn't mind if he went to NY either. But, I think it's ludacrous to suggest that he's telling his referees to give Cleveland all the calls and go "Donaghy" on the league, especially after all the crap that situation got them into.

[Joker]

The problem with revenue sharing in the nba is bigger than you know...

Also see this:

So you're right, TV deal won't matter if Lebron goes to NY.

Actually based on this, there won't be any extra value to the league if Lebron goes to NY (unless NY goes into the LTax again).

So now, we're talking... LBJ going to NY and killing a Clevland Market or LBJ staying in Cleveland...

If you're Stern, what do you want to happen??

I think case is closed here.

Losing Lebron will not kill the market like it did for Atlanta with the Falcons (before Ryan). What it will do is normalize the Cleveland market. They are a likely 20-25 ranked attendance city for basketball, but with Bron they are top 5 attendance team. That is serious overachieving by a lot to be honest. He can single handingly upgrade attendance and interest where ever he's goes. The Atlanta basketball market is one of the largest in America, but the Hawks attendance is ugh. The Hawks are the most popluar team in Atlanta only slightly ahead of the Lakers, Knicks, Heat, and Cavs in their own city. If you gave Atlanta a superstar they will sellout the arena without question. This was proven during the Nique era and basketball viewership is 3X higher now than it was then for Atlanta. Atlanta is the only major city outside of LA, where the basketball team can draw the number one support in the city. The problem is Atlanta is like LA, superstars only, anything else and we are not too hyped, causally speaking.

[Diesel]

Diesel, you do realize that TV ratings are huge in the value of commercials and value of national television contracts (not the local cablevision one you seem to be hellbent on)? You do realize that all NBA merchandise sells are split evenly with each team, right? If LeBron is in New York he will absolutely destroy the league in jersey, shoes, and many other licensed product sells.

With a team like NY being in the playoffs as opposed to the Cavs, the TV ratings will be much higher because there are lots more NBA fans.

I think it's fair to say that Stern would not mind if LeBron stayed in Cleveland, and he wouldn't mind if he went to NY either. But, I think it's ludacrous to suggest that he's telling his referees to give Cleveland all the calls and go "Donaghy" on the league, especially after all the crap that situation got them into.

So wait are you saying that Stern values the commercial money the NBA makes over having a healthy market in Cleveland?

Of course you're not. that would be ... Ludacrous?

Aside from protecting his stars and personalities over teams... Sterns other mantra has been expansion. Just a few years ago, he was talking about expanding into Europe. In order to talk expansion, you have to have strong healthy markets. It's sort of why Vancouver failed, Seattle failed, and why Toronto may fail. The markets are not strong enough to support the team. Stern finally has a fix for a Cleveland franchise. Part of that fix was them jumping some teams to get Lebron... the second half is them keeping Lebron for his career. At this point, I wouldn't put it past Stern to do anything to help his league contend. Apparently, you believe that Stern is an officer of fairness. Let me remind you, Stern works for the owners.

[Diesel]

Losing Lebron will not kill the market like it did for Atlanta with the Falcons (before Ryan). What it will do is normalize the Cleveland market. They are a likely 20-25 ranked attendance city for basketball, but with Bron they are top 5 attendance team. That is serious overachieving by a lot to be honest. He can single handingly upgrade attendance and interest where ever he's goes. The Atlanta basketball market is one of the largest in America, but the Hawks attendance is ugh. The Hawks are the most popluar team in Atlanta only slightly ahead of the Lakers, Knicks, Heat, and Cavs in their own city. If you gave Atlanta a superstar they will sellout the arena without question. This was proven during the Nique era and basketball viewership is 3X higher now than it was then for Atlanta. Atlanta is the only major city outside of LA, where the basketball team can draw the number one support in the city. The problem is Atlanta is like LA, superstars only, anything else and we are not too hyped, causally speaking.

Superstar, read the article...

Basketball and football are different sports with different deals.

The Falcons didn't die because:

1. They didn't have time to die.

2. NFL's revenue Sharing is much much better than NBA's.

The NBA makes the NFL look like socialist.

Moreover, Football fans are more faithful than bball fans.

I mean, didnt you used to be a Kings fan?

[AtLaS]

So wait are you saying that Stern values the commercial money the NBA makes over having a healthy market in Cleveland?

Of course you're not. that would be ... Ludacrous?

Aside from protecting his stars and personalities over teams... Sterns other mantra has been expansion. Just a few years ago, he was talking about expanding into Europe. In order to talk expansion, you have to have strong healthy markets. It's sort of why Vancouver failed, Seattle failed, and why Toronto may fail. The markets are not strong enough to support the team. Stern finally has a fix for a Cleveland franchise. Part of that fix was them jumping some teams to get Lebron... the second half is them keeping Lebron for his career. At this point, I wouldn't put it past Stern to do anything to help his league contend. Apparently, you believe that Stern is an officer of fairness. Let me remind you, Stern works for the owners.

Diesel you are completely in over your head. Seattle's market had nothing to do with the failing of that team. I'll leave that up to you to figure that one out.

I'm sick of arguing with someone who insists that they know about the economics of sports when they have no clue. The fact is that the NBA is much more valuable in terms of merchandise and TV ratings if a winning team is in NY. That makes the league a lot more money.

Instead I guess I'm supposed to buy into your logic that Stern is fixing the NBA. If that is the case than why do you watch it?

[Joker]

Superstar, read the article...

Basketball and football are different sports with different deals.

The Falcons didn't die because:

1. They didn't have time to die.

2. NFL's revenue Sharing is much much better than NBA's.

The NBA makes the NFL look like socialist.

Moreover, Football fans are more faithful than bball fans.

I mean, didnt you used to be a Kings fan?

If you do not believe attendance matters in the NFL then look at the Forbes top teams. Look what happen to our Forbes ranking for last year. Yes, the NFL is more secure then NBA but not by that big a margin for it not to matter. You can make lots of money with a NFL team but you can lose lose some as well. I never was a Kings fan, odd that you asked me that. I only like the Hawks and certain players in the league. I liked the Mavs when it was Nash and Dirk, and I like the Lakers because of Kobe, and now I like the Nuggets. I would stop liking these teams altogether if the Hawks had a chance for the title. In baseball, I only like the Braves, no one else matters. In football, the Falcons and 49ers. In hockey, the Avs. In soccer, Arsenal and Juve. In the non team sports I like: Tiger Woods-Golf, Roger Federer-Tennis, NASCAR-No one, Track-Usain Bolt, and lastly Senena Williams-Women Tennis.

Edited May 12, 2009 by nbasuperstar40

[Joker]

Diesel you are completely in over your head. Seattle's market had nothing to do with the failing of that team. I'll leave that up to you to figure that one out.

I'm sick of arguing with someone who insists that they know about the economics of sports when they have no clue. The fact is that the NBA is much more valuable in terms of merchandise and TV ratings if a winning team is in NY. That makes the league a lot more money.

Instead I guess I'm supposed to buy into your logic that Stern is fixing the NBA. If that is the case than why do you watch it?

So true, Seattle not wanting to build a new arena was. This is true, if Bron goes to NY, it would be bigger then when Shaq left Orlando for LA. It changes the way the league advertises the sport in general. Basketball is the only team sport where a superstar can win 50% of games by himself. See D. Wade. No other sport is like that, and Bron is also a marketing coup.

[dlpin]

So wait are you saying that Stern values the commercial money the NBA makes over having a healthy market in Cleveland?

Of course you're not. that would be ... Ludacrous?

Aside from protecting his stars and personalities over teams... Sterns other mantra has been expansion. Just a few years ago, he was talking about expanding into Europe. In order to talk expansion, you have to have strong healthy markets. It's sort of why Vancouver failed, Seattle failed, and why Toronto may fail. The markets are not strong enough to support the team. Stern finally has a fix for a Cleveland franchise. Part of that fix was them jumping some teams to get Lebron... the second half is them keeping Lebron for his career. At this point, I wouldn't put it past Stern to do anything to help his league contend. Apparently, you believe that Stern is an officer of fairness. Let me remind you, Stern works for the owners.

Im sorry, but you are so way off base that I don't even want to waste my time with this anymore...

But here are a few facts for you: even in its current pathetic state, the only franchises to sell more jerseys than the Knicks last year were Boston and LA. Even Nate Robinson made the top 10 most sold jerseys solely because he is in New York. I can't even imagine what would happen with Lebron there.

TV ratings for a lockout shortened NBA finals in 99 that included the Knicks vs the Spurs was almost double that of Cavs vs Spurs.

But let me get this straight:

- Even though no one knows what impact winning a title would do to the chances of Lebron staying in Cleveland, Stern is just reckless enough to fix an entire season so that he might stay in Cleveland if he wins a title

- To make him win this title, which might or might not convince him to stay in Cleveland, Stern is willing to fix it so that Cleveland can just breeze through the eastern conference, completely screwing the Boston Celtics, NBA's most storied franchise, and one of the most popular, from one of the top markets in the nation, and the team that by being in the finals against its rivals increased tv ratings by 50%?

- And then, to make sure Lebron wins, Stern will be willing to screw with the Lakers, the league's 2nd biggest market, 2nd most storied franchise, and 2nd biggest money maker?

- And all of this so that Lebron doesn't leave for New York, the NBA's richest, most valuable, most popular franchise by a very wide margin? The team that pays by far the most luxury tax, and would be even more willing to spend into the luxury tax if it meant having Lebron?

So even though he has no idea of how winning a title would affect the chances of Lebron staying, Stern would be willing to screw the 2nd and 4th media markets, and the 2nd and 3rd most popular NBA franchises, so that the chances that Lebron leaves for the top media market and most popular franchise are slightly diminished?

Never mind the local market and ticket sales, New York is the media capital of the world, and I guarantee that over 3/4 of the world couldn't even point to cleveland in a map.

Edited May 12, 2009 by dlpin