The Amare for Smith rumors seem to be heating up according to ESPN!

[Plainview1981]

OK . . as for my take on this entire situation.

LOL

You do this trade in a HEARTBEAT. The only way you don't do it, is if Amare doesn't sign an extension . . or if you truly believe that Josh Smith is going to be better than Amare is right now, in 2 years.

If not, you HAVE to do this deal . . and don't look back.

It's been evident for a long time, that a select few of Hawk fans are more loyal to their favorite player, than they are to seeing thsi team possibly winning a title. They want to see the Hawks succeed WITH their favorite player here.

Unfortunately, it doesn't work like that most of the time folks.

We all like Josh Smith for the most part. But this is Amare Stoudamire we're talking about. THIS is the type of deal you move Smoove for, to give yourself a chance at a title RIGHT NOW.

Those of you who are against moving Smith for Amare, you need to be reminded of what the Celtics did by moving their young future star PF in Al Jefferson. As good as Jefferson was looking, Boston HAD to make that move, in order to get where they needed to be to become a championship caliber team.

Boston gave up almost ALL of their young pieces, to add Garnett to the Celtics.

And when Jefferson left, he blossomed into a MONSTER of a PF/C in his 2 years in Minnesota, like everyone thought he had the potential to do.

But Boston got their NBA championship.

Remember what the formula for winning a title is folks:

You need at least 2 All-Stars ( with one of them preferably being a Hall of Fame caliber player ), plus another player who is a very good player that can step up at times.

- Lakers: Bryant, Gasol, and Odom

- Celtics: Garnett, Pierce, and Allen

- Spurs: Duncan, Parker and Ginoboli

- Detroit: Billups, Hamilton, Wallace

When you look at the moves the Magic and Cavs just made:

- Magic: Howard, Carter, Nelson

- Cavalliers: Lebron, Shaq, Mo Williams

Jamal friggin Crawford doesn't make us a championship caliber team, becase he'll end up being the 2nd scoring option and shot taker on the squad . . which is NOT GOOD.

But if you add an Amare Stoudamire to the mix, to pair with JJ . . now you're talking about a situation in which a Crawford could be a HUGE 3rd option scorer who should get a ton of open looks because of the attention that JJ and Amare would draw. Or maybe Horford becomes that 3rd reliable guy, that complements JJ and Amare. Maybe even Marvin, if he's kept.

- Hawks: Amare, JJ, Crawford/Marvin/Horford

That's the reality folks.

Most important though, you now have a player that puts EXTREME PRESSURE for other frontline players to try to defend. Play Amare at center, and he uses his quickness to possibly beat people off the dribble. Play him at PF, and he shows that he's one of the best jumpshooting big men in the game.

People ragged Barkley for talking ish about JJ during the playoffs, but this is exactly what he is talking about. When he said that JJ can't be your best player, we didn't like it, but he is right. JJ is not Kobe or Lebron.

What JJ can be though, is a great 1a or 1b scorer, when teamed up with another all-star caliber player. Especially if that player pretty much plays 15 feet and in. Some nights, JJ will be the man. Other nights, he'll be the decoy. And on those nights in which he's the decoy, Amare would STRAIGHT UP KILL PEOPLE.

And if you have to ship off Teague and Smoove to get Amare . . lol . . you do that ish too . . IN A HEARTBEAT.

As much as people talk about how great Teague is, Acie was an even MORE DECORATED coming out of college as a PG. Acie was the one who was a 1st team All-American. Acie was the one who was known as "Mr. Clutch" as a PG. Acie was the one who took a virtually deceased program in Texas A&M, and turned them into a top 15 caliber program almost overnight.

Teague may have more skill than Acie, but people shouldn't act like he's a sure thing. He's FAR from sure thing.

So if you have a chance to move him for an All-Star, especially an All-Star frontline player like Amare, you do that without blinking.

It's time for the fan base to stop looking at the "potential" of players, and start looking at ways to get to the NBA Finals, to at least give us a chance to play for a world championship.

That's what the Vince Carter move to Orlando was partially about. As good as Courtney Lee and Rafer Alston were at times during the playoffs, they couldn't pass up a chance to get an All-Star caliber player in Carter, to possibly put them over the hump to win a champioship.

Damn some potential, they're playing for NOW.

You're forgetting some things:

-This is not the same Amare of a few years ago. He has what seems to be a serious eye issue right now. For all we know, he might not ever play in the NBA again. It could be another Alan Henderson or Theo Ratliff situation.

-The line up you list is a selfish ball hogging line up. It will not get the Hawks past Orlando and Cleveland.

[Admin]

hopefully all of you wont keep getting your hopes up. theres never anything on tv about amare and the hawks. nothing on the internet anywhere. there is no recent talks. its all just speculation. not going to happen

There was nothing on tv or anywhere else about the Hawks and Crawford either. It still happened. Just saying ...

[Frenzy]

There was nothing on tv or anywhere else about the Hawks and Crawford either. It still happened. Just saying ...

True, that trade really surprised me

[Final_quest]

You can go look at the very short thread on Suns Real GM forum regarding this topic. Here is the "inside" scoop that actually originates from the suns ESPN forum, fwiw:

I don't like to start rumors, but I just talked to someone and it appears the Amar'e to Golden State deal is off as they do NOT want to part with Curry or A Randolph. NOW, there is a deal with Atlanta in the works. My friend with the Suns(legal) is part of the negotiating team. I called him and he said "I'll call you back in a little bit, we have a possible trade with ATL and are pounding out the numbers".. i said "so the Warrior deal is off", he said" yep, we insisted on Randolph or Curry and they won't give up either at this time"

don't have any details ... except that Josh Smith is involved... but this is from a good source.

the guy came back and posted this

Alright- sorry everyone. .. just got off the phone with him again. He says the deal IS NOT happening. They cannot make the numbers work. Now he says, Kerr got way ahead of himself on this one

...like I said before, teams are afraid of Amare and his eye right now until they see him play. Atlanta wasn't willing to deal what the Suns were looking for and still consider Amare "damaged goods". He doubts anything will happen now.

Sorry . shouldn't even have posted on this but it sounded good a couple of hours ago. Turns out the Suns were just getting ahead of themselves. .and so was I.

[NJHAWK]

Here is another espn one.

By Thursday Amare is a Hawk if he passes his physical. The trade is Amare + Lopez for Josh Smith, Josh Childress signed and traded with the offer he got from Phoenix last year, and the rights to David Anderson. Amare and the Hawks have come to an agreement on extension #'s. They have to wait till July 1st for Chills to be signed and for Josh Smith's byc to end. They cant give Amare the physical until July 1st. If he passes he is a Hawk.

[Admin]

Curious what the all time number of views of a thread is? This is getting up there.

9,852 is the record according to the old forums http://www.hawksquawk.net/forums/showflat....;fpart=1#300420

8,547 according to the new forums but both go to the same topic called "Diesel's Dream" which oddly enough only has 4 replies. http://www.hawksquawk.net/community/index....howtopic=300420

[Admin]

Here is another espn one.

By Thursday Amare is a Hawk if he passes his physical. The trade is Amare + Lopez for Josh Smith, Josh Childress signed and traded with the offer he got from Phoenix last year, and the rights to David Anderson. Amare and the Hawks have come to an agreement on extension #'s. They have to wait till July 1st for Chills to be signed and for Josh Smith's byc to end. They cant give Amare the physical until July 1st. If he passes he is a Hawk.

WOW I wonder if this is true or not. I would absolutely love that deal since we're trading 2 players that we didn't have in our plans and we're certainly replacing the production from Josh Smith and there's the potential from the true 7'er Lopez. Seriously if Sund pulls this off (with Amare physically capable and extension signed) I'd have to give him executive of the year for turning:

Josh Smith (16 and 7 in 08)

Acie Law (very little in 08)

Speedy Claxton (nothing in 08)

Josh Childress (nothing in 08)

David Andersen (nothing in 08)

into:

Amare Stoudemire (21 and 8 in 08)

Jamal Crawford (20 and 4.5 in 08)

Robin Lopez (very little in 08)

[GameTime]

Here is another espn one.

By Thursday Amare is a Hawk if he passes his physical. The trade is Amare + Lopez for Josh Smith, Josh Childress signed and traded with the offer he got from Phoenix last year, and the rights to David Anderson. Amare and the Hawks have come to an agreement on extension #'s. They have to wait till July 1st for Chills to be signed and for Josh Smith's byc to end. They cant give Amare the physical until July 1st. If he passes he is a Hawk.

Where is the link?

I got this

you're right on this. IT IS NOT.

Alright- sorry everyone. .. just got off the phone with him again. He says the deal IS NOT happening. They cannot make the numbers work. Now he says, Kerr got way ahead of himself on this one

...like I said before, teams are afraid of Amare and his eye right now until they see him play. Atlanta wasn't willing to deal what the Suns were looking for and still consider Amare "damaged goods". He doubts anything will happen now.

Sorry . shouldn't even have posted on this but it sounded good a couple of hours ago. Turns out the Suns were just getting ahead of themselves. .and so was I.

http://boards.espn.go.com/boards/mb/mb?spo...0479&lid=13

I wonder which is true.

[BusBoyIsBack]

Defensive metrics, such as they exist in basketball, put Smith and Amare about even. Smith gets blocks, but I've never thought blocks were a good indicator of defense. They're just pretty.

Anyone who actually watches games knows that Josh Smith does more than get 2-3 blocks a game, he also alters shots in the open court and in the half court setting.

Comparing the defense of Amare to Smoove's is laughable. If Amare Stoudemire had the defense of Josh Smith, the Suns would have a ring by now.

[BusBoyIsBack]

The Hawks will never be a championship team with JJ as the best player. Stars win titles and Amare is a bigger star than JJ.

If the Hawks land Amare then i would go all out to get Gortat. Horford won't work playing next to Amare but Gortat would be the perfect guy to play next to him.

The Hawks have more than a legit shot at challenging the Magic for Eastern supremacy if they kept the core they have together now.

Who besides Orlando has a team with more potential than the Hawks ?

The Cavs and Celtics will both get worse over the next two years with age.

The impatient route of blowing everything up when they were the 5th youngest team in the NBA last year and the youngest to advance to the 2nd round of the playoffs, is textbook Atlanta sports team stupidity

Edited June 29, 2009 by BusBoyIsBack

[NJHAWK]

Where is the link?

I got this

http://boards.espn.go.com/boards/mb/mb?spo...0479&lid=13

I wonder which is true.

Sorry I should have clarified its from the espn message boards just like the guy who says he knows a Suns lawyer. Its the Suns espn message board.

[Admin]

Anyone who actually watches games knows that Josh Smith does more than get 2-3 blocks a game, he also alters shots in the open court and in the half court setting.

Comparing the defense of Amare to Smoove's is laughable. If Amare Stoudemire had the defense of Josh Smith, the Suns would have a ring by now.

Amare is at least equal to Josh Smith in positional defense but they're not close as far as being intimidating or in actually blocking shots, although Amare is no slouch. Amare is light years better as a jump shooter, won't hang out near the 3pt line, and he's a far more fundamental rebounder than Smith. With that being said I wouldn't be surprised to see Smith put up better numbers in Phoenix next year than Amare will in Atlanta if this trade goes through simply because of the talent on each team being so different. Smith can go there and be the man with lots of easy buckets from Nash while Amare will have to find a way to fit into our guard based offense, which hopefully Woody will change.

[Admin]

The Hawks have more than a legit shot at challenging the Magic for Eastern supremacy if they kept the core they have together now.

Who besides Orlando has a team with more potential than the Hawks ?

The Cavs and Celtics will both get worse over the next two years with age.

The impatient route of blowing everything up when they were the 5th youngest team in the NBA last year and the youngest to advance to the 2nd round of the playoffs, is textbook Atlanta sports team stupidity

Do you consider trading Josh Smith for Amare Stoudemire to be "blowing everything up"?

I certainly don't and I think that this will do is make us significantly more balance offensively and defensively since Amare will be closer to the basket and it also forces defenses to respect all 5 of our players whereas MANY times last year you saw them laying 5-10 feet off of Josh Smith daring him to shoot a 3.

[BusBoyIsBack]

Amare is at least equal to Josh Smith in positional defense but they're not close as far as being intimidating or in actually blocking shots, although Amare is no slouch. Amare is light years better as a jump shooter, won't hang out near the 3pt line, and he's a far more fundamental rebounder than Smith. With that being said I wouldn't be surprised to see Smith put up better numbers in Phoenix next year than Amare will in Atlanta if this trade goes through simply because of the talent on each team being so different. Smith can go there and be the man with lots of easy buckets from Nash while Amare will have to find a way to fit into our guard based offense, which hopefully Woody will change.

But the point of Al Horford at the Center is we need more than a PF who can be a threat defending his fellow PF. We need the elite help defense of Josh Smith to make our post defense overall serviceable.

That is the main reason why it would hurt us. Not so much the 1 on 1 defense of Amare and Smoove, but the basically Free safety ball hawking shot blocking/altering aspect of Josh SMith that we would lose.

I mean guys look at the games that Josh gets in foul trouble and how much more we get abused when teams have guys who can penetrate or post up.

Thats how we got screwed vs Cleveland. They took out Josh Smith and that basically took away our entire interior defense

Edited June 29, 2009 by BusBoyIsBack

[Final_quest]

WOW I wonder if this is true or not. I would absolutely love that deal since we're trading 2 players that we didn't have in our plans and we're certainly replacing the production from Josh Smith and there's the potential from the true 7'er Lopez. Seriously if Sund pulls this off (with Amare physically capable and extension signed) I'd have to give him executive of the year for turning:

Josh Smith (16 and 7 in 08)

Acie Law (very little in 08)

Speedy Claxton (nothing in 08)

Josh Childress (nothing in 08)

David Andersen (nothing in 08)

into:

Amare Stoudemire (21 and 8 in 08)

Jamal Crawford (20 and 4.5 in 08)

Robin Lopez (very little in 08)

The very next post by the same poster says this:

nvm he just called me back and said he was on the shaq negotiaiting team

The post you are wondering if it is true or not was making fun of the Phoenix fan who posted the original rumor. Still that was an amazing idea to just pull out of your hat to make fun of someone.

[NJHAWK]

Sekou has said previously that the Hawks have no interest in Amare. I think if a trade was at the very least being discussed he would have said something. Then again I dont recall him mentioning JAMAL CRAWFORD at all or at least in a long time.

[Admin]

But the point of Al Horford at the Center is we need more than a PF who can be a threat defending his fellow PF. We need the elite help defense of Josh Smith to make our post defense overall serviceable.

That is the main reason why it would hurt us. Not so much the 1 on 1 defense of Amare and Smoove, but the basically Free safety ball hawking shot blocking/altering aspect of Josh SMith that we would lose.

I mean guys look at the games that Josh gets in foul trouble and how much more we get abused when teams have guys who can penetrate or post up.

Thats how we got screwed vs Cleveland. They took out Josh Smith and that basically took away our entire interior defense

You're also forgetting how Smith gambles on defense and tries to block a shot from behind which causes Horford to have to rotate over to try and stop the man driving to the basket which leaves his man open. I know that shot blocking is exciting but weak side shot blocking is a poor way to build a defense around. It's not like we're talking about Dikembe here otherwise I'd agree with you that we'd seriously miss the shot blocking.

What this team needs is better rebounding and better positioning on offense and defense and Amare will give that to us.

[Admin]

The very next post by the same poster says this:

nvm he just called me back and said he was on the shaq negotiaiting team

The post you are wondering if it is true or not was making fun of the Phoenix fan who posted the original rumor. Still that was an amazing idea to just pull out of your hat to make fun of someone.

Ah so then it's not true? Man that bites ... but I'm still going to hold out hope.

[BusBoyIsBack]

Amare is NOT a better defender than Josh Smith. Josh Smith may gamble on a couple of plays a game. But there will be half a dozen more plays that teams will score at will against our frontline of Amare/Horford vs Smoove/Horford.

[DominiqueWilkins]

Golden State can still offer more. If your Phoenix you don't turn your back on them just because they don't include Randolph or Curry.