Emo Joe is at again

[TheNorthCydeRises]

Kind of strange that in a contact year he tries to be a leader.

He goes 3 on 1 alot during a game.

He is really playing selfish.

Horf and Smith get theirs by not giving it back to JJ.

I watched Marvin and Evans wide open calling for the ball and JJ still shot the ball.

He is playing selfish.

I really believe that he feels threatened by Jamal Crawford. Jamal seems to have a better on court relationship with the other players. He seems to like looking for Zaza when they are in together.

JJ never passes to Marvin.

The dude has been criticized for not playing as aggressive as he should be in the past ( as recently as last year's playoffs. ) So now that he's looking to drive the ball and shoot more, he's playing selfish? Nah . . not buying that at all.

That's like calling Smoove a "cancer". Even if there's friction between he and Woody ( and possibly even JJ ), and because he may pout at times, labeling Smith a "cancer" is far from the truth. I hate when the national media still tries to put that label on Smoove, when they haven't had a public blow up in years.

LOL @ JJ being selfish, when he's still averaging over 4 assists a game, with 2 extra PGs on the team, and Smoove passing like Lamar Odom ( and he would be averaging more if Marvin started knocking down jumpers ).

And that's another thing. If it's anybody that will pass the ball to Marvin, it's JJ. Just because he didn't do it on that one occasion, doesn't mean he ignores Marvin. Marvin pretty much depends on Bibby and JJ to get his open jumpshots. By the way, Marvin is shooting 33% eFG on his jumper this year.

Scorers are scorers in this league, because they can score in a variety of ways. And the true scorers CAN go 1 on 3 and get the job done. But if JJ passes the ball, and guys don't convert, what should he do? In the playoffs, people were literally begging JJ to shoot or "take over" . . not pass to a cold Flip so he can shoot it.

Now he's selfish because he's trusting his own shot a little more?

Hogwash.

[tremor]

Joe isn't even close to being Kobe.

+1 and I'm not even fan of Bryant.

Elite players take over the game when it matters the most, commend double team and when it happens - they use it as and advantage making plays for their teammates.

JJ plays best in first quarter. It might be because of fatigue, why is he demanding more minutes then? He has tools to score 25 (maybe more) ppg as he used to, but he to do so he needs to pick up his 3 pt shooting and carry the team late in the game or when other guys struggle. He needs also to learn to pass quickly to open man when doubled.

Don't get me wrong - I want him to be elite because it would make Hawks contender. Stop whining Joe, just improve your game and good things will come.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

And some of us fans see the reality and that is JJ will never equal Kobe or Lebron on a nightly basis; so his selfish play cost in the same manner as Crawford; if all Crawford is doing is looking for his shot.

JJ should get 18 to 20 shots a night when he is on; but when the defense dicatates he will not be on, he has to defer. JJ has the abilty to take over a game when playing well; but unlike Kobe and Lebron, a good defensive team and scheme can turn him off. The Lakers and Bobcats both turned him off.

Reality dictates that on his bad nights he should be getting 6 to 8 assist a game instead of just four as in the Laker game or only one as in the Bobcat game. That is how JJ can become more impactful; not by taking five dribbles and a shot when they are not dropping; but by passing a little more when they are not dropping.

He starts making teams pay for the early dbl and triple teams; he may start seeing less of them...

I know JJ will never equal those guys. But just about every scorer on every team in the NBA can be labeled as "selfish", if your idea of being selfish is when a guy goes into modes in which he's looking for his own shot. If the main guy on the team makes it a priority to shoot the ball on certain possessions, then even guys like Jason Terry and Ray Allen can be labeled as "selfish". And JJ still passes more than the vast majority of SGs in this league. Way more.

While JJ's 3-point shooting is down, his overall FG% is up. Now why do you think that is? He's missing the wide open looks, but is actually converting on the tougher shots, because he's making it a priority to drive the basketball ( even when he's going one on 2 or 3 ). When he does that, he has a better chance in drawing a foul. That's the reason Crawford has been so successful, because he's doing the same thing JJ is.

JJ's shooting wasn't the reason why Charlotte and the Lakers beat us down. Even when JJ went cold in the Laker game, we were right there. I believe JJ was leading the team in points, assists, and rebounds in that Laker game, before the meltdown happened.

So JJ should average 6 - 8 assists a game on bad nights? That shows just how highly you think of JJ, because I don't know of another SG in the league outside of D-Wade, that you would expect that from. But once again, to achieve that, people have to make shots and convert lay-ups.

[Buzzard]

I know JJ will never equal those guys. But just about every scorer on every team in the NBA can be labeled as "selfish", if your idea of being selfish is when a guy goes into modes in which he's looking for his own shot. If the main guy on the team makes it a priority to shoot the ball on certain possessions, then even guys like Jason Terry and Ray Allen can be labeled as "selfish". And JJ still passes more than the vast majority of SGs in this league. Way more.

While JJ's 3-point shooting is down, his overall FG% is up. Now why do you think that is? He's missing the wide open looks, but is actually converting on the tougher shots, because he's making it a priority to drive the basketball ( even when he's going one on 2 or 3 ). When he does that, he has a better chance in drawing a foul. That's the reason Crawford has been so successful, because he's doing the same thing JJ is.

JJ's shooting wasn't the reason why Charlotte and the Lakers beat us down. Even when JJ went cold in the Laker game, we were right there. I believe JJ was leading the team in points, assists, and rebounds in that Laker game, before the meltdown happened.

So JJ should average 6 - 8 assists a game on bad nights? That shows just how highly you think of JJ, because I don't know of another SG in the league outside of D-Wade, that you would expect that from. But once again, to achieve that, people have to make shots and convert lay-ups.

I do think a lot of JJs overall talent just not a lot of his decison making at times. He averaged 5.8 assist in 08 and 09. Why is it such a stretch to think he can't get 6 in a game when his shot is not falling?

[tremor]

Only Josh and Horf rebound? Uhm our starting PF is averaging only .6 more rebounds than our starting SF and SG and that's each by the way. People either need to stop their love affair whith Smoove or their hatefest with Joe because it is seriously clouding your perceptions.

Get your facts right first. Josh is rebounding 10.1 rebs per 48mins, Joe - 7.6. Smoove's figure is quite low for PF and JJ's at least decent for SG (but not very impressive considering his size and strength).

Remember however that Josh gets his blocks mostly from help defense. Most defensive rebounds for big guys come from taking position inside and outboxing opponent's bigs. It is resonable to demand from other player to fill this gap.

Joe has inclination to leave his man open to shoot 3 and try to help inside which is bad idea because he's neither shot blocker nor good stealer. This is one of the reasons why our perimeter defense sucks.

Now, offensive rebounding is a different story. JSmoove avarages 3.1 per 48mins while JJ - 0.8. It's not very impressive but not so bad for PF and nothing to whine about in case of shooting guard either.

[ATLNY7]

I dont care what he says as long as we are winning

LOL. That's true.

[niremetal]

+1 and I'm not even fan of Bryant.

Elite players take over the game when it matters the most, commend double team and when it happens - they use it as and advantage making plays for their teammates.

JJ plays best in first quarter. It might be because of fatigue, why is he demanding more minutes then? He has tools to score 25 (maybe more) ppg as he used to, but he to do so he needs to pick up his 3 pt shooting and carry the team late in the game or when other guys struggle. He needs also to learn to pass quickly to open man when doubled.

Don't get me wrong - I want him to be elite because it would make Hawks contender. Stop whining Joe, just improve your game and good things will come.

Joe does most of his damage in the 3rd (6.2ppg, 1.5apg) and 4th (6.2, 1.4) quarters, and the least in the 1st (4.9, 1.7) and 2nd (4.5, 1.3):

http://www.82games.com/0809/QTR4S11.HTM

Funny. The bit about elite players commanding double teams and using it to their advantage is right. But it's an absurd statement to make it sound like they do it by acting as facilitators.

That's the great contradiction about the criticism of JJ - he's apparently a ballhog who is afraid of taking over the game. Go figure.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

Joe does most of his damage in the 3rd (6.2ppg, 1.5apg) and 4th (6.2, 1.4) quarters, and the least in the 1st (4.9, 1.7) and 2nd (4.5, 1.3):

http://www.82games.com/0809/QTR4S11.HTM

Funny. The bit about elite players commanding double teams and using it to their advantage is right. But it's an absurd statement to make it sound like they do it by acting as facilitators.

That's the great contradiction about the criticism of JJ - he's apparently a ballhog who is afraid of taking over the game. Go figure.

Those quarterly stats are from last season. The points may be about the same though, while the assists are going to be down slightl. But I'd bet that he racks up more assists in the 1st halves of games, than at any other time. That's when JJ is looking for his teammates most times.

The dude got ripped into last year because he couldn't or wouldn't even try to shoot us back into games, like most star players try to do. He was staying within the team concept, passing to other guys when teams doubled and tripled him . . only to see them miss the shot.

Part of the reason why Josh Smith's assists are up, is because he's taking dribbles to the basket more, instead of taking the open jumper. Last year, he'd receive the pass from JJ and immeadiately shoot a wide open 18 - 24 footer. This year, he's passing up the shot, and either driving to the hole himself for a lay-up or he driving and making the extra pass himself, to get an assist.

Teams don't double JJ because he passes the ball. They double him to make other people on the Hawks beat them, because they know that JJ can.

Edited November 9, 2009 by northcyde

[Buzzard]

Joe does most of his damage in the 3rd (6.2ppg, 1.5apg) and 4th (6.2, 1.4) quarters, and the least in the 1st (4.9, 1.7) and 2nd (4.5, 1.3):

http://www.82games.com/0809/QTR4S11.HTM

Funny. The bit about elite players commanding double teams and using it to their advantage is right. But it's an absurd statement to make it sound like they do it by acting as facilitators.

That's the great contradiction about the criticism of JJ - he's apparently a ballhog who is afraid of taking over the game. Go figure.

Here is something interesting:

FGA per quarter:

1st 4.6

2nd 3.8

3rd 4.9

4th 5.0

FTA per quarter:

1.6

1.0

1.3

1.4

Then his minutes:

1st 839

2nd 681

3rd 853

4th 746

Its pretty obvious his huge drop off in the 2nd quarter is due to his minutes played. Looking at these stats, I don't think JJ is changing his game much one way or the other until the fourth quarter. My only gripe with him is, if he knows he is shooting badly he has no business continuing to shoot on every touch in the 4th quarter. Not when he is such a good distibutor and we have this supposedly much deeper team backing him up last year and now this year.

Edited November 9, 2009 by Buzzard

[tremor]

Joe does most of his damage in the 3rd (6.2ppg, 1.5apg) and 4th (6.2, 1.4) quarters, and the least in the 1st (4.9, 1.7) and 2nd (4.5, 1.3):

http://www.82games.com/0809/QTR4S11.HTM

I admit that I based my statement only on impression and I was talking about this season.

Funny. The bit about elite players commanding double teams and using it to their advantage is right. But it's an absurd statement to make it sound like they do it by acting as facilitators.

Absurd maybe in case of MJ, otherwise just oversimplification. Anyway, they don't allow defenders to surround them far away from basket so fans feel relief if they manage to pass the ball to a teammate before shot clock runs down.

That's the great contradiction about the criticism of JJ - he's apparently a ballhog who is afraid of taking over the game. Go figure.

Because he tends to dominate the ball, not the game.

[sick_five]

If JJ wants to be a Little bit selfish with the ball sometimes, I'm ok with that... a little bit... but how can you possibly criticize your teammates for selfishness when you take on 3 guys and still shoot?