If Woody won't let Teague play this year

[jerrywest]

If Woody won't let Teague play this year

Acie Law is the 13th man in Charlotte playing behind Felton, Augustine and Flip. They will give him away just to drop the salary.

What about Iverson at vetaran minimum? He hasn't signed with Sixers yet. He will have to totally change his game here. Will he?

Our salary is about $20 million lower than the top 10 contenders (average). Can't we get someone for this year?

[Gray Mule]

:thumbsdownsmileyanim:

If Woody won't play Agent 0, why should we believe he would play his replacement?

It ain't happening. No matter who we signed, they would be #12 on the bench.

Woody is afraid. He's scared of his bench. He don't trust them. Never has,

regardless of who he has. Crawford, Zaza and just maybe one other player.

That's it. Barring injuries, the only thing the remainder of the bench gets is a

ringside seat for the action.

:cant believe:

[NineOhTheRino]

If Woody won't let Teague play this year

Acie Law is the 13th man in Charlotte playing behind Felton, Augustine and Flip. They will give him away just to drop the salary.

What about Iverson at vetaran minimum? He hasn't signed with Sixers yet. He will have to totally change his game here. Will he?

Our salary is about $20 million lower than the top 10 contenders (average). Can't we get someone for this year?

Sounds great but don't bank on getting a cosign from anyone other than me. The problem is defense. No way Woody would put Bibby and AI on the floor at the same time and we know Crawford / AI would be a disaster offensively and defensively.

[AHF]

No to Law, who wouldn't play here anyway. And **** no to Iverson, who would destroy our team chemistry and create a huge distraction.

[spotatl]

I'd LOVE the team to go after Mike Conley. The Grizzlies are an inept organization and I think that Conley has done good things when he has had the chance. Not quite sure what his value is at this point but I'd love to see the Hawks make a move.

Edited December 2, 2009 by spotatl

[jerrywest]

We need an experienced big point guard who

is trusted by Woody. (not Acie)

doesn't get destroyed by other team's back up point guards.

plays within the team concept. (no AI)

can defy JJ, like Flip did.

Where is Royal Ivey? Sixers don't need him.

[NineOhTheRino]

We need an experienced big point guard who

is trusted by Woody. (not Acie)

doesn't get destroyed by other team's back up point guards.

plays within the team concept. (no AI)

can defy JJ, like Flip did.

Where is Royal Ivey? Sixers don't need him.

Royal Ivey has to be one of the worst offensive players in the history of basketball. But Woody loves the dude so maybe it's not that far of a reach.

Edited December 2, 2009 by NineOhTheRino

[mrhonline]

The good news is that Teague is 4th among rookies in AST%, first in STL%, and first among "PGs" (excluding Evans) in DReb%.

Once his outside shot improves and he learns how to get foul calls inside, he'll be a fine backup PG.  I'd rather see him get small increases in minutes over the course of the season than bring in a vet backup.

[jerrywest]

The good news is that Teague is 4th among rookies in AST%, first in STL%, and first among "PGs" (excluding Evans) in DReb%.

Once his outside shot improves and he learns how to get foul calls inside, he'll be a fine backup PG. I'd rather see him get small increases in minutes over the course of the season than bring in a vet backup.

Look guys, I think Teague has all star potential if he is allowed to learn through his mistakes. We are talking Woody here. He needs his TL/Ivey.

[mrhonline]

Here's Mo Williams' stats as a rookie prior to the All-Star break:

ESPN

Edited December 2, 2009 by mrhonline

[AHF]

Woody, take note:

14.4 mpg

[spotatl]

I'll say once again that I trust Woodson on his judgment of Rookies more than I would anyone else here. When people were bitching about Salim not playing enough people blamed woodson- it turned out Salim just wasn't good enough. The exact same thing happened with Acie. I do like Teague more than I ever did Acie but I am not ready at all to say that Woodson is making a mistake by not playing Teague. This is a team that intends to get home court advantage in the first round of the playoffs- you need to pick and choose the spots to play a rookie. And when the second unit is getting killed (unlike last year) then I think we just need to give it some time.

And if Teague is still not ready as the season goes on go out and trade for a backup PG from a team thats destined for the lottery. The Hawks don't ahve a ton of salary filler which is the biggest problem with that plan.

[macdaddy]

I'll say once again that I trust Woodson on his judgment of Rookies more than I would anyone else here. When people were bitching about Salim not playing enough people blamed woodson- it turned out Salim just wasn't good enough. The exact same thing happened with Acie. I do like Teague more than I ever did Acie but I am not ready at all to say that Woodson is making a mistake by not playing Teague. This is a team that intends to get home court advantage in the first round of the playoffs- you need to pick and choose the spots to play a rookie. And when the second unit is getting killed (unlike last year) then I think we just need to give it some time.

And if Teague is still not ready as the season goes on go out and trade for a backup PG from a team thats destined for the lottery. The Hawks don't ahve a ton of salary filler which is the biggest problem with that plan.

Whether Teague is going to be good or not Woody made a clear statement that he considered Teague and the rest of the bench to be nba caliber and "an important part of what we're doing". He declared that he "had to find a way" to expand his rotation to 9 or 10 guys and reduce starter minutes. One month into the season we're seeing him revert to his short bench and big minutes for starters.

[Swatguy]

:thumbsdownsmileyanim:

If Woody won't play Agent 0, why should we believe he would play his replacement?

It ain't happening. No matter who we signed, they would be #12 on the bench.

Woody is afraid. He's scared of his bench. He don't trust them. Never has,

regardless of who he has. Crawford, Zaza and just maybe one other player.

That's it. Barring injuries, the only thing the remainder of the bench gets is a

ringside seat for the action.

:cant believe:

Woody is afraid?

What benchwarmer for Woody has ever amounted to a hill of beans?

This Woody hate is sick.

I see, he should have played _______, ah Who?

Jeff will play if and when he is ready to contribute.

You Play The Game To Win.

Pro's gotta come ready or they sit the bench.

[spotatl]

Saying nice things about players in the offseason is great- playing guys who will hurt the team is a whole different matter. The team screwed up by signing Collins- Woodson shouldn't make the mistake worse by actually playing him. The team screwed up by drafting Acie Law- Woodson shouldn't have made the problem worse by playing him. Evans Has struggled. Woodson has gotten what he can out of Zaza. Teague just doesn't look ready. I'm sorry but when the backups are already killing the Hawks then I don't see the rationale for giving them more minutes.

When Teague is off the floor the Hawks outscore the opposition by 7.4 points/100 possessions. When he is on the court the Hawks are outscored by 2.2.

When Evans is off the floor the hawks outscore the opposition by 12.4 points/100 possessions. When he is on the court the Hawks are outscored by 11.7!/b]

Last year the Hawks were significantly better with Murray on the court and Woodson gave him more minutes to reward the good play.

This is a serious question- how many games are you willing to lose to give Teague and Evans more minutes? Because maybe you do think that losing a couple extra games during the regular season will mean winning a couple extra games in the playoffs which would easily be worth it. But you shoudl at least say that now.

[macdaddy]

Saying nice things about players in the offseason is great- playing guys who will hurt the team is a whole different matter. The team screwed up by signing Collins- Woodson shouldn't make the mistake worse by actually playing him. The team screwed up by drafting Acie Law- Woodson shouldn't have made the problem worse by playing him. Evans Has struggled. Woodson has gotten what he can out of Zaza. Teague just doesn't look ready. I'm sorry but when the backups are already killing the Hawks then I don't see the rationale for giving them more minutes.

When Teague is off the floor the Hawks outscore the opposition by 7.4 points/100 possessions. When he is on the court the Hawks are outscored by 2.2.

When Evans is off the floor the hawks outscore the opposition by 12.4 points/100 possessions. When he is on the court the Hawks are outscored by 11.7!/b]

Last year the Hawks were significantly better with Murray on the court and Woodson gave him more minutes to reward the good play.

This is a serious question- how many games are you willing to lose to give Teague and Evans more minutes? Because maybe you do think that losing a couple extra games during the regular season will mean winning a couple extra games in the playoffs which would easily be worth it. But you shoudl at least say that now.

They are 2nd team for a reason. Beyond the 6th guy every team is going to have players on the bench that are not as good as the starters and not as effective as the starters. That's why they aren't starters. Its about getting productive minutes so these guys are there when you need them and you don't run your starters into the ground. I agree with the sentiment that Woody can judge talent and knows that Acie and Teague aren't all world nba players. What he seems unable to do is use a lesser talent player with any effectiveness.

None of this is hypothetical. We've seen it the last two years. There comes a time through injury or fatigue that we have to turn to players 8-10 and time after time when it happens they look like they're in preseason. Because for them they are. Its ridiculous to expect a guy who just came out of college to step in a run an offense and effectively guard the best ball handlers in the world when he's been sitting and watching.

[AHF]

When Teague is off the floor the Hawks outscore the opposition by 7.4 points/100 possessions. When he is on the court the Hawks are outscored by 2.2.

I am SHOCKED to find out that Teague is -14 on the year in 41.7 minutes when playing in a lineup with all bench players. Shocked.

Did you know, however, that in the 20.2 minutes he has played with at least 2 starters on the floor that the Hawks are +18? How can this be? Teague is doing fantasticly better when playing with a few starters? Why in the world would that be the case?

I question Flip as being a superior comparison. When Flip Murray was playing without Bibby, JJ, Smith and Horford did you know he was also terrible from a +/- perspective?

* Law-Murray-Evans-Williams-Jones 33 minutes, -25 = WORSE THAN TEAGUE (with a starter)

* Law-Murray-Evans-Williams-Pachulia 26 minutes, -18 WORSE THAN TEAGUE (with a starter)

* Murray-Evans-Williams-Smith-Pachulia 36 minutes, -17 = WORSE THAN TEAGUE (with two starters)

Hmmm....playing with the worst players on the team tends to bring down your +/-. That is remarkable. Who would ever have anticipated this?

Did you know Bibby has not played in one lineup this season (that I can find and at least among his top 10 by minutes) without at least 3 starters on the floor? Surely that doesn't make a difference in +/- numbers, right?

In the one lineup I could find where Joe Johnson played with all reserves he had a negative +/-. Clearly, we should bench JJ since he is hurting us on the floor when playing minutes with the dregs of our team -- just like Teague.

In fact, JJ had a worse +/- ratio on a per minute basis than Teague in the lineups where they each played with all reserves. Can JJ! His number are pulled down by playing with all subs too! He must be costing us games!

Because maybe you do think that losing a couple extra games during the regular season will mean winning a couple extra games in the playoffs which would easily be worth it. But you shoudl at least say that now.

I've already said it.

Edited December 2, 2009 by AHF

[spotatl]

Teague has struggled this year playing against backups and you want to see his role expanded. Evans has been TERRIBLE this season against backups and you want to see his role expanded. And the first time that Woodson sits Crawford, Bibby, and Joe too much then everyone here woudl crucify Woodson for it. If you are willing to lose games to get these guys more PT then thats great but I think you are nuts.

If the team wasn't too cheap to field a summer league team maybe Teague would be closer to being able to help at this point. If the team didn't waste money on Collins then maybe Woodson would have better options on the bench.

Edited December 2, 2009 by spotatl

[AHF]

Teague has struggled this year playing against backups and you want to see his role expanded. Evans has been TERRIBLE this season against backups and you want to see his role expanded. And the first time that Woodson sits Crawford, Bibby, and Joe too much then everyone here woudl crucify Woodson for it. If you are willing to lose games to get these guys more PT then thats great but I think you are nuts.

If the team wasn't too cheap to field a summer league team maybe Teague would be closer to being able to help at this point. If the team didn't waste money on Collins then maybe Woodson would have better options on the bench.

I look forward to you responding to my post when you get an opportunity.

[jy23]

I'd LOVE the team to go after Mike Conley. The Grizzlies are an inept organization and I think that Conley has done good things when he has had the chance. Not quite sure what his value is at this point but I'd love to see the Hawks make a move.

Um.......NO!!!! Conley has been a vast disappointment to anyone who actually follows that team, he has been vastly outplayed by Tinsley since he's signed with that team. The Grizz are not an inept organization, they have actually made some pretty good moves to position themselves for the future, wasn't very long ago that we looked like the Grizz so we may want to chill on the insults. I wouldn't mind him on the team but what would u give up to get him? Thats y i say NO!!! The only person that we can really give up to get him is Marv, doesn't really help us right now because we would have a hole at the 3, don't want to hear about moving JJ to the 3 and putting craw at the 2, if we did that then whats the point of getting conley bc he's not the type of player that can really play off the ball.......not a great shooter........he's at his best when he's TRYING to run an offense, he wouldn't have a chance in hell at doing that with JJ and Craw both on the floor at the same time so NO!!!!