According to Bill Simmons @ ESPN we're struggling financially

[gsuteke]

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=simmons/091223&sportCat=nba

He didn't come out and say that directly but you can connect the dots

Fortunately, Ken Berger, a CBS Sportsline reporter, obtained attendance figures for the first quarter of the season. Only one ticket-related statistic matters in professional sports: net gate receipts. (The attendance number doesn't matter because it's so easy to manipulate; teams either fib or boost the total by giving tickets away for absurdly low prices, hoping to recoup some of it through concessions and merchandise sales.) According to Berger's information, net gate receipts have dropped 7.4 percent from last season. Eight teams (Philly, Sacramento, Charlotte, Memphis, Minnesota, Milwaukee, Indiana and Atlanta) already reside in the dreaded "We Make Less Than $500,000 Per Game" Club, and that number could swell once non-contenders either gut their teams or start tanking for lottery purposes.

[TheTruth]

This is nothing new. Continued winning ways and postseason berths + a better economy will slowly turn that around.

[KDT88]

I don't see it changing. Its not like we're a fair weather fan base. I don't know of any other basketball city that has its NBA team performing at a high level with a 20-7 record and still has fans showing up like they're 7-20. We're just a different deal here in Atlanta. We show up when Kobe, Bron, etc show up.

[niremetal]

I don't see it changing. Its not like we're a fair weather fan base. I don't know of any other basketball city that has its NBA team performing at a high level with a 20-7 record and still has fans showing up like they're 7-20. We're just a different deal here in Atlanta. We show up when Kobe, Bron, etc show up.

Bolded part QFT. Back in '97, we were 27th in attendance in a year where we won 56 games. Even in the heyday of Nique, the Hawks never drew higher than 8th in the league in attendance.

The team's payroll is up for the 5th straight year, right in the ~$5M-below-the-tax-threshold range of most NBA teams. ASG isn't being cheap. They're being smart. Spending $5M more wouldn't lead to $5M more in revenue here in Atlanta. Only idiots throw money at something knowing they'll never earn it back.

Edited December 24, 2009 by niremetal

[Deeman]

I wonder if they owners move the team eventually.

[Buzzard]

There are two post here that our owners should pay attention two. In no order they are:

KTB28:

I don't see it changing. Its not like we're a fair weather fan base. I don't know of any other basketball city that has its NBA team performing at a high level with a 20-7 record and still has fans showing up like they're 7-20. We're just a different deal here in Atlanta. We show up when Kobe, Bron, etc show up.

niremetal:

Bolded part QFT. Back in '97, we were 27th in attendance in a year where we won 56 games. Even in the heyday of Nique, the Hawks never drew higher than 8th in the league in attendance.

Its no coincidence that the Falcons filled the dome when we had Vick even during our non playoff seasons. Back when we were losing under Rankin Smith the Falcons could not sell out because we had no superstar. I can also remember the Braves doing above average some seasons, when we had Dale Murphy; even though we did not make the playoffs. In Niques day we not only had a bonafide superstar but Ted Turner was nothing short of a marketing genius (TBS, CNN, Radio, and Cable affiliations).

We need a superstar 1st and foremost IMO; if the owners really want to bring in the fans.

Edited December 24, 2009 by Buzzard

[niremetal]

We need a superstar 1st and foremost IMO; if the owners really want to bring in the fans.

Yeah. Those grow on trees, you know. I mean, it's not like most of the best players of the past decade were all drafted by their current teams or anything. And heaven knows it's incredibly easy on draft day to recognize which high draft picks will pan out as superstars.

And as I said, even with a 55-win squad and the best player that Atlanta has ever seen (indeed, the most exciting player of his time without the initials MJ), our attendance capped at 8th in the NBA - at a time when the league only had 23 teams.

Edited December 24, 2009 by niremetal

[Buzzard]

Yeah. Those grow on trees, you know. I mean, it's not like most of the best players of the past decade were all drafted by their current teams or anything. And heaven knows it's incredibly easy on draft day to recognize which high draft picks will pan out as superstars.

And as I said, even with a 55-win squad and the best player that Atlanta has ever seen (indeed, the most exciting player of his time without the initials MJ), our attendance capped at 8th in the NBA - at a time when the league only had 23 teams.

We wish they grew on trees; as I am sure our owners do as well. It just seems to be true that if the owners really want to fill up Phillips on a near regular basis they are going to have to figure out a way to get one; or just wait on LeBron, Kobe, Garnet, etc to come fill it up when they visit us.

And 8th out of 23 is similar to 11th or 12th out of 30, that is probably as good as they can hope for.

Edited December 24, 2009 by Buzzard

[Guest]

There are other sources of revenue than gate receipts. This doesn't not mean we are struggling financially. You are jumping to conclusions.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

It's sad. And people had the nerve to come at me a few years ago, when I blasted the metro ATL fans who didn't even bother to go to the gmes, yet, they want management to put the best possible product on the floor.

The only bright spot is that we still have most of our bandwagon type home games still coming up. But ATL has 4+ million in the metro area, yet, can't even break 14,000 paid attendance on a nightly basis.

This team has been pretty dominant at home for 2+ seasons, yet, people still only pack the place when the big boys roll through.

So much for "if we start winning, they will come". Of course it'll be packed for the Cleveland game ( with 35% of the crowd rooting for Cleveland ). But how about simply watching the Hawks play, when they go up against Okllahoma City or Milwaukee?

If the city needs a superstar to go out and watch the Hawks, then they might as well move the team to St. Louis or Louisville or somewhere.

But like I said, a lot of our "big money" games are yet to come, so maybe the Hawks will eventually get at least around 650K a game.

It's embarrassing to be grouped with those other losing teams, when we're one of the top 5 - 7 teams in the league.

[bird_dirt]

It's sad. And people had the nerve to come at me a few years ago, when I blasted the metro ATL fans who didn't even bother to go to the gmes, yet, they want management to put the best possible product on the floor.

The only bright spot is that we still have most of our bandwagon type home games still coming up. But ATL has 4+ million in the metro area, yet, can't even break 14,000 paid attendance on a nightly basis.

This team has been pretty dominant at home for 2+ seasons, yet, people still only pack the place when the big boys roll through.

So much for "if we start winning, they will come". Of course it'll be packed for the Cleveland game ( with 35% of the crowd rooting for Cleveland ). But how about simply watching the Hawks play, when they go up against Okllahoma City or Milwaukee?

If the city needs a superstar to go out and watch the Hawks, then they might as well move the team to St. Louis or Louisville or somewhere.

But like I said, a lot of our "big money" games are yet to come, so maybe the Hawks will eventually get at least around 650K a game.

It's embarrassing to be grouped with those other losing teams, when we're one of the top 5 - 7 teams in the league.

hey, we'll take 'em. we've got a brand new arena i've been watching them build set to open up next year. though honestly, i don't think there will ever be an nba team in this city. nbdl team maybe, but not an nba team-this city's already screwed itself on that one twice.

maybe i'm in the minority here, but when i was living down there, i didn't mind going when they played the bucks, clippers, etc because at least i knew i had a decent chance to see them win. i came in there right before jr rider, so the hawks sucked the whole time i was down there. it wasn't very much fun watching them get blown out by the lakers and pistons.

it shouldn't be too difficult to pick up the numbers there, though. if homeboy smoove makes the all star team (along with jj and maybe horford), smoove wins the dunk contest, and the hawks get the second seed in the playoffs, then i'm sure phillips will be nearly sold out for the play offs, right?! oh, and maybe if teague can step up his game a little to be in the roy discussions, too. that would help.

[dlpin]

Cities in the south never do well in attendance in indoor sports. In percentage of seats sold, Orlando were 12th last year... It's just generally too nice outside, and the cities have relatively poor infrastructure.

Add to that there are 3 other major sports teams in Atlanta, 2 top college programs that frequently compete in both basketball and football, and how cheap other entertainment options are in the area, and it is easy to see why the hawks will always have a hard time selling out seats.

As some of you know, Im a celtics fan now living in Atlanta. Let me tell you why the celtics sold out every game even in the season they lost 67 games, and the hawks are having a hard time doing it as a 20-7 team.

It's December. In boston, you are freezing. Your entertainment options are all indoors. Tickets to the game are expensive, but so is everything else. If you manage to get tickets, from wherever you are inside the city itself you are probably never more than 2 blocks away from any subway entrance. In the subway, its at most a 30 minute ride to the game. If you are out in the suburbs, you can take the commuter rail. That means no parking, no driving, no designated driver.

In Atlanta, you still have nice weather occasionally. If you want to grill at home, it is still possible most of the time. And then there is the complete lack of infrastructure. Unless you happen to live right by a marta station, you will have to drive to the game (or at least to a marta station - good luck finding a parking spot). Given game times, we are talking about having to face commuter traffic that has been consistently rated among the worst 5 in the nation. Then on the way out there's the parking lot traffic, the traffic to get onto 85, etc.

[DeacKillsaDevil]

Don't look at just the Hawks. Look at every source of revenue - Thrashers, concessions, luxury suites, etc. Also, the owners make tons of cash from concerts.

[Johnnybravo4]

Bolded part QFT. Back in '97, we were 27th in attendance in a year where we won 56 games. Even in the heyday of Nique, the Hawks never drew higher than 8th in the league in attendance.

The team's payroll is up for the 5th straight year, right in the ~$5M-below-the-tax-threshold range of most NBA teams. ASG isn't being cheap. They're being smart. Spending $5M more wouldn't lead to $5M more in revenue here in Atlanta. Only idiots throw money at something knowing they'll never earn it back.

But also remember that the team has never been past the second round since coming to the ATL. Also consider that that team was broken up a couple years later because they never one anything. Atlanta fans are smart enough to know that it is a waste of money to go see an avg non superstar team with no real chance of a championship.

This team has a chance to win folks over but it has to convince the city that it is a real contender since we have no superstars. That however won't really manifest until next year though. I mean even the Heat don't sell out and they have a recent championnship and the 3rd most marketed superstar. If we traded Wade for JJ tomorrow we'd have a 5 year waiting list.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

The excuses for Atlanta area fans who don't go to the games are over. If every team depended on getting an exciting superstar player in the mix, they'd never draw people. The Hawks created a tremendous buzz with those 3 playoff wins vs Boston. Ever since that point, they've been a real good team at home. The true basketball fans in ATL should be regulars at Hawk games.

It's not 60 degrees in ATL at night, during basketball season . . . until about March. While there is a lot of things to do in and around Metro ATL, you're still talking about 4+ million people within a 45 minute radius of Philips Arena. The Hawks are simply not a priority for sports fans in that area.

2007 - 08: 25 - 16

2008 - 09: 31 - 10

2009 - 10: 12- 2 ( on pace to be 35 - 6 at home . . . 35 - 6 )

Total: 68 - 28 ( .709 winning percentage ) . . . if they go 35 - 6, the 3 year home record would be 91 - 32 ( . 734 winning percentage )

People simply have to have it in their mind that they're going to watch the Hawks on a particular night, no matter what. Stop letting "inconviences" keep you from going to watch your team LIVE.

- Oooo the weather is nice, I'm not going to the game.

- Oh no, I have to sit 35 minutes in bumper to bumper traffic, I'm not going to the game

- Parking is $10, I'm not going to the game

- The Hawks are playing the Clippers tonight, and since they're horrible, I'm not going to the game ( although you will get to see the Hawks win, which is the objective )

The excuses simply have to stop. Because if people don't show up, this management team isn't going to continue to dish out money to put a top notch product on the floor. Forget losing JJ, they'll balk on re-signing Crawford as well in the summer of 2011 ( if he proves that he's going to cost too much to retain, and because Horford's contract will be the priority ).

Fans can't have it both ways. If you live in the area, you have to support the team by going to the games. Outside of TV contracts, that's the main way the organization generates revenue to re-sign players, add players, and operate as a whole. Fans, true fans, have to become more conscious of this.

Edited December 26, 2009 by northcyde

[Buzzard]

The excuses for Atlanta area fans who don't go to the games are over. If every team depended on getting an exciting superstar player in the mix, they'd never draw people. The Hawks created a tremendous buzz with those 3 playoff wins vs Boston. Ever since that point, they've been a real good team at home. The true basketball fans in ATL should be regulars at Hawk games.

It's not 60 degrees in ATL at night, during basketball season . . . until about March. While there is a lot of things to do in and around Metro ATL, you're still talking about 4+ million people within a 45 minute radius of Philips Arena. The Hawks are simply not a priority for sports fans in that area.

2007 - 08: 25 - 16

2008 - 09: 31 - 10

2009 - 10: 12- 2 ( on pace to be 35 - 6 at home . . . 35 - 6 )

Total: 68 - 28 ( .709 winning percentage ) . . . if they go 35 - 6, the 3 year home record would be 91 - 32 ( . 734 winning percentage )

People simply have to have it in their mind that they're going to watch the Hawks on a particular night, no matter what. Stop letting "inconviences" keep you from going to watch your team LIVE.

- Oooo the weather is nice, I'm not going to the game.

- Oh no, I have to sit 35 minutes in bumper to bumper traffic, I'm not going to the game

- Parking is $10, I'm not going to the game

- The Hawks are playing the Clippers tonight, and since they're horrible, I'm not going to the game ( although you will get to see the Hawks win, which is the objective )

The excuses simply have to stop. Because if people don't show up, this management team isn't going to continue to dish out money to put a top notch product on the floor. Forget losing JJ, they'll balk on re-signing Crawford as well in the summer of 2011 ( if he proves that he's going to cost too much to retain, and because Horford's contract will be the priority ).

Fans can't have it both ways. If you live in the area, you have to support the team by going to the games. Outside of TV contracts, that's the main way the organization generates revenue to re-sign players, add players, and operate as a whole. Fans, true fans, have to become more conscious of this.

Why don't you go and help out our ownership by running front page ads, radio, and tv spots promoting Smoove as the next highlight reel, JJ as the silent assasin, or Horf as the lean mean rebounding machine. Owners need to promote the team. All fans can do is promote via word of mouth; which is exactly what true fans do.

Edited December 27, 2009 by Buzzard

[CODHAWKSFAN]

The excuses for Atlanta area fans who don't go to the games are over. If every team depended on getting an exciting superstar player in the mix, they'd never draw people. The Hawks created a tremendous buzz with those 3 playoff wins vs Boston. Ever since that point, they've been a real good team at home. The true basketball fans in ATL should be regulars at Hawk games.

It's not 60 degrees in ATL at night, during basketball season . . . until about March. While there is a lot of things to do in and around Metro ATL, you're still talking about 4+ million people within a 45 minute radius of Philips Arena. The Hawks are simply not a priority for sports fans in that area.

2007 - 08: 25 - 16

2008 - 09: 31 - 10

2009 - 10: 12- 2 ( on pace to be 35 - 6 at home . . . 35 - 6 )

Total: 68 - 28 ( .709 winning percentage ) . . . if they go 35 - 6, the 3 year home record would be 91 - 32 ( . 734 winning percentage )

People simply have to have it in their mind that they're going to watch the Hawks on a particular night, no matter what. Stop letting "inconviences" keep you from going to watch your team LIVE.

- Oooo the weather is nice, I'm not going to the game.

- Oh no, I have to sit 35 minutes in bumper to bumper traffic, I'm not going to the game

- Parking is $10, I'm not going to the game

- The Hawks are playing the Clippers tonight, and since they're horrible, I'm not going to the game ( although you will get to see the Hawks win, which is the objective )

The excuses simply have to stop. Because if people don't show up, this management team isn't going to continue to dish out money to put a top notch product on the floor. Forget losing JJ, they'll balk on re-signing Crawford as well in the summer of 2011 ( if he proves that he's going to cost too much to retain, and because Horford's contract will be the priority ).

Fans can't have it both ways. If you live in the area, you have to support the team by going to the games. Outside of TV contracts, that's the main way the organization generates revenue to re-sign players, add players, and operate as a whole. Fans, true fans, have to become more conscious of this.

Yes....you said it best, I am tired of the excuses when 60,000 plus people show up to see the Falcons game (who is a superstar on that team). I don't buy it. I honestly think that people here in Atlanta don't know how good the Hawks are, you wouldn't believe how many people still think and feel like the Atlanta Hawks suck. I find it crazy that people here in Atlanta show up if Braves are doing OK, 50k+ Atl people show up to see a football team that will not make the playoffs, they will even show up if the Thrashers start playing well its so confusing (drives me insane). But no matter who's fault it is.... owners, marketing, no recognition from local media, players, etc....its going to take all of those things to get fans to come out and actually want to see the HAWKS (not lbj, kobe, wade).

[Dejay]

But also remember that the team has never been past the second round since coming to the ATL. Also consider that that team was broken up a couple years later because they never one anything. Atlanta fans are smart enough to know that it is a waste of money to go see an avg non superstar team with no real chance of a championship.

This team has a chance to win folks over but it has to convince the city that it is a real contender since we have no superstars. That however won't really manifest until next year though. I mean even the Heat don't sell out and they have a recent championnship and the 3rd most marketed superstar. If we traded Wade for JJ tomorrow we'd have a 5 year waiting list.

DING, DING, DING, we have a winner.

Folks in this town still haven't forgiven the Hawks for trading Nique back in 1994 (Lord knows I haven't); just like they still blame the Falcons for you-know-who now playing football in Philly instead of here. And as for that 8th in attendance back in the '80s, that had more to do with playing in a bandbox (the Omni was one of the league's smaller arenas, remember?) instead of their current place.

People here have looooooong memories. That's why the Braves couldn't give away playoff tickets 5-7 years ago. Why pay top dollar for the sequel when you've already read the script from Wikipedia weeks ago? And as JB stated, no town is better at discerning a phony from the real McCoy than Atlanta. If we think they have no shot at all of winning, we'll quickly find something else to do. That's not being fair-weather; that's having common sense.

You won't convince the masses to follow this team at a fervor pitch until there is proof that things won't end the same way they did in 1980, 1986-1989, 1994, 1997, and so on. They still remember the first and second round knockouts back then like it was yesterday and gunshy about going all-in emotionally, let alone financially. To them, they've seen 50-win teams before; where are the banners? Where are the titles? How far did that 56-win squad go? Oh yeah. As many of us have stated ad nauseum, two good years of basketball that few know about will not erase nearly a decade of bad basketball that EVERYONE knows about. That and a lack of marketing is why people in town thinks the team is 8-21 right now instead of 21-8.

Case in point; I just finished arguing with a coworker who still thinks that Josh Smith should be sent on the first plane smoking for anything they can get because he (get this) shoots too many threes. I had to do everything short of print out this year's stats to show him that he doesn't. No convincing him; he still thinks the Hawks will win no more than 42 games and lose in the first round.

Besides, we all know that football is king down here. Until UGA, Tech, and the Falcons are done, folks are still going to gravitate their way first, with the Hawks coming in a distant second at best. But don't take my word for it; Miami has Dwayne Wade and still can't give tickets away unless Kobe or Lebron shows up and they won a title a few years ago. Orlando doesn't have a 500+ streak of sellouts, either. And don't get me started on the numbers in Charlotte and Memphis.

It is what it is. I don't like it anymore than anyone. But, to their credit, every time the locals predict a disappointing year, the fans here have been right nearly every time.

Edited December 28, 2009 by Dejay

[TheNorthCydeRises]

Well if those are the sentiments in Atlanta, fans in and around that city shouldn't get mad when people call the city as a whole a "bad sports town" or a "bandwagon fan base".

I'm sorry, but if people in that city are using the past "failures" of the Hawk teams in the 90s, as a reason for them not supporting this current Hawk team, then I don't know what to say about them. If they are fans of the Hawks, those are the ones that I don't want to see crying about the product on the floor, or our supposedly "cheap" ownership.

The Braves thing always amazed me. When the team was absolute garbage, they hardly got any support. When they became good, EVERYBODY all of a sudden were Braves fan.

But then, when they were good, but not great, the fans got complacent as hell, even during playoff time. Like they were the Yankees or something, and expected to win titles every year. Please.

That's why I kind of feel sorry for any Hawk fan that refuses to completely enjoy this team in 2010, simply because they feel that the Hawks can't win a title. Really? After all the crap this franchise has been through since we traded Mookie and Smitty? After basically being a laughingstock for 9 straight years.

Really?

As good as last year's team was playing at this time, they weren't doing what this year's team is doing. This team not only is good, they play a much more exciting brand of basketball.

Anybody that watches ESPN on a regular basis, should know that the Hawks are a real good team.

Like I said, NO EXCUSES for the Atlanta fan base. NONE. If people won't come out to watch a top 10 NBA team, and one of the best home teams in the league, then shame on them.

[Buzzard]

DING, DING, DING, we have a winner.

Folks in this town still haven't forgiven the Hawks for trading Nique back in 1994 (Lord knows I haven't); just like they still blame the Falcons for you-know-who now playing football in Philly instead of here. And as for that 8th in attendance back in the '80s, that had more to do with playing in a bandbox (the Omni was one of the league's smaller arenas, remember?) instead of their current place.

People here have looooooong memories. That's why the Braves couldn't give away playoff tickets 5-7 years ago. Why pay top dollar for the sequel when you've already read the script from Wikipedia weeks ago? And as JB stated, no town is better at discerning a phony from the real McCoy than Atlanta. If we think they have no shot at all of winning, we'll quickly find something else to do. That's not being fair-weather; that's having common sense.

You won't convince the masses to follow this team at a fervor pitch until there is proof that things won't end the same way they did in 1980, 1986-1989, 1994, 1997, and so on. They still remember the first and second round knockouts back then like it was yesterday and gunshy about going all-in emotionally, let alone financially. To them, they've seen 50-win teams before; where are the banners? Where are the titles? How far did that 56-win squad go? Oh yeah. As many of us have stated ad nauseum, two good years of basketball that few know about will not erase nearly a decade of bad basketball that EVERYONE knows about. That and a lack of marketing is why people in town thinks the team is 8-21 right now instead of 21-8.

Case in point; I just finished arguing with a coworker who still thinks that Josh Smith should be sent on the first plane smoking for anything they can get because he (get this) shoots too many threes. I had to do everything short of print out this year's stats to show him that he doesn't. No convincing him; he still thinks the Hawks will win no more than 42 games and lose in the first round.

Besides, we all know that football is king down here. Until UGA, Tech, and the Falcons are done, folks are still going to gravitate their way first, with the Hawks coming in a distant second at best. But don't take my word for it; Miami has Dwayne Wade and still can't give tickets away unless Kobe or Lebron shows up and they won a title a few years ago. Orlando doesn't have a 500+ streak of sellouts, either. And don't get me started on the numbers in Charlotte and Memphis.

It is what it is. I don't like it anymore than anyone. But, to their credit, every time the locals predict a disappointing year, the fans here have been right nearly every time.

You nailed it man. Boston, LA, NY, Det, Philly; they have banners and they have some history of real success. The Braves have banners, the Falcons have a NFC championship banner, hell even Ga Tech won a NCAA football championship. I love basketball; as do most that post here, but after over 40 years of futility its going to be very hard to convince the casual fan that its worth spending fifty to one hundred plus dollars to watch a team that has never won anything of significance; and I man anything!

Edited December 29, 2009 by Buzzard