Cavs-Hawks aftermath: Are we a contender or a pretender?

[hawks21]

The Hawks right now are looking like pretenders against the "elite" teams. Orlando embarrassed the Hawks on Thanksgiving, Denver thumped us on the road and Cleveland beat the Hawks in their own backyard.

Marvin Williams should lose his starting spot as a small forward, and GM Sund has to start finding ways to replace him right now before the February trade deadline....if the Hawks truly want to contend against the Big 3 in the East.

Joe Smith said the following: "We've got some of the top teams in the East, home and on the road coming up," Joe Smith said. "In order for us to prove we're one of those top teams, we're going to have to go out and win these games."

Bibby said this in the AJC about playing against Cleveland and other top teams: "We're going to be able to tell where we stand."

Joe Johnson was terrible last night, and reaffirmed he is not worth 18 million a year...14 OK, but mega-millions? No.

GM Sund has to shake this roster up somehow, because this year is looking a whole lot like last season in which the Hawks teased for awhile against mediocre teams and start showing the deficiencies against the best teams in the NBA.

[Plainview1981]

The Hawks right now are looking like pretenders against the "elite" teams. Orlando embarrassed the Hawks on Thanksgiving, Denver thumped us on the road and Cleveland beat the Hawks in their own backyard.

Marvin Williams should lose his starting spot as a small forward, and GM Sund has to start finding ways to replace him right now before the February trade deadline....if the Hawks truly want to contend against the Big 3 in the East.

Joe Smith said the following: "We've got some of the top teams in the East, home and on the road coming up," Joe Smith said. "In order for us to prove we're one of those top teams, we're going to have to go out and win these games."

Bibby said this in the AJC about playing against Cleveland and other top teams: "We're going to be able to tell where we stand."

Joe Johnson was terrible last night, and reaffirmed he is not worth 18 million a year...14 OK, but mega-millions? No.

GM Sund has to shake this roster up somehow, because this year is looking a whole lot like last season in which the Hawks teased for awhile against mediocre teams and start showing the deficiencies against the best teams in the NBA.

You hit the nail on the head. This is a 4th seed team in a very weak eastern conference. Nothing more.

[HalfHawk]

Here comes the panic..... :doh:

The lost came from the result of a shut down quarter. I don't think the Hawks can possible do that bad again in the fourth tomorrow. Honestly, calm it.

[plskeepbibby]

Call me crazy but what exactly about clevelands performance tonight scares anyone in the NBA. I would venture ti say that the hawks beat themselves tonight with an absolutely dismal 4th quarter. By this boards logic we are a 3rd seed based on the fact we beat Boston once this season

[volman]

Call me crazy but what exactly about clevelands performance tonight scares anyone in the NBA. I would venture ti say that the hawks beat themselves tonight with an absolutely dismal 4th quarter. By this boards logic we are a 3rd seed based on the fact we beat Boston once this season

You're wrong here because not many people on this board use logic.

Everybody wants to nit-pick everything about this team when they win, and the times they lose it is the end of the world... Wish some people would be happy with having a good team and stop trying to be "realists" that "Tell it like it is".

The Hawks blew the game... It's not like Cleveland did anything.

[Diesel]

The Hawks right now are looking like pretenders against the "elite" teams. Orlando embarrassed the Hawks on Thanksgiving, Denver thumped us on the road and Cleveland beat the Hawks in their own backyard.

Marvin Williams should lose his starting spot as a small forward, and GM Sund has to start finding ways to replace him right now before the February trade deadline....if the Hawks truly want to contend against the Big 3 in the East.

Joe Smith said the following: "We've got some of the top teams in the East, home and on the road coming up," Joe Smith said. "In order for us to prove we're one of those top teams, we're going to have to go out and win these games."

Bibby said this in the AJC about playing against Cleveland and other top teams: "We're going to be able to tell where we stand."

Joe Johnson was terrible last night, and reaffirmed he is not worth 18 million a year...14 OK, but mega-millions? No.

GM Sund has to shake this roster up somehow, because this year is looking a whole lot like last season in which the Hawks teased for awhile against mediocre teams and start showing the deficiencies against the best teams in the NBA.

We are definitely a contender. Our record speaks to it. Our wins suggest it. I think the thing is we're focusing on the wrong words... contending or pretending is not the focus. Our focus is really TEAM. What this year has shown is that when we play as a team, we can beat anybody. Our problem is that we have been desperate enough to believe that Joe must score in order for us to win. Championship teams learn to win when their top scorer is not scoring. When our top scorer is not scoring, we revert to 1 on 1 play. We can't win playing 1 on 1 basketball... that was the lesson from last years playoffs. Chemistry wise, I think that getting JCraw really has helped because he gives us another scoring option. BK was terribly in that he gave us players who didn't have the ability to create for themselves or have a scorers mentality. Mavin and Chillz are indicative of this pattern.. so is Smoove. However, we are in the midst of evolving. I suspect we do need one more move and one more definition. We are not a defensive stopper... we have too many holes on our defensive id to be that. BUt we can be a team that plays good team defense. I think when the smoke is cleared, we will be a team similar to the Kings.. we will have a lot of good individual players who buy into to an offensive philosophy and we just go out and outscore other teams. The difference is that we will be good enough defensively to make a few stops along the way. With that in mind, Marvin is not the guy.

[Plainview1981]

We are definitely a contender. Our record speaks to it. Our wins suggest it. I think the thing is we're focusing on the wrong words... contending or pretending is not the focus. Our focus is really TEAM. What this year has shown is that when we play as a team, we can beat anybody. Our problem is that we have been desperate enough to believe that Joe must score in order for us to win. Championship teams learn to win when their top scorer is not scoring. When our top scorer is not scoring, we revert to 1 on 1 play. We can't win playing 1 on 1 basketball... that was the lesson from last years playoffs. Chemistry wise, I think that getting JCraw really has helped because he gives us another scoring option. BK was terribly in that he gave us players who didn't have the ability to create for themselves or have a scorers mentality. Mavin and Chillz are indicative of this pattern.. so is Smoove. However, we are in the midst of evolving. I suspect we do need one more move and one more definition. We are not a defensive stopper... we have too many holes on our defensive id to be that. BUt we can be a team that plays good team defense. I think when the smoke is cleared, we will be a team similar to the Kings.. we will have a lot of good individual players who buy into to an offensive philosophy and we just go out and outscore other teams. The difference is that we will be good enough defensively to make a few stops along the way. With that in mind, Marvin is not the guy.

A contender for what, 4th seed? This team has NO SHOT at contending for a title. Any team can beat any other team on any given night... But this team isn't capable of beating a top team in a series.

[Diesel]

A contender for what, 4th seed? This team has NO SHOT at contending for a title. Any team can beat any other team on any given night... But this team isn't capable of beating a top team in a series.

It's too early to tell, but we are one of the top 4 teams in the East. That is without doubt. Weather or not we contend for a title has tobe played out. People like you said the same thing about Orlando last year. You don't know until you actually get into the playoffs what will happen.

[Plainview1981]

It's too early to tell, but we are one of the top 4 teams in the East. That is without doubt. Weather or not we contend for a title has tobe played out. People like you said the same thing about Orlando last year. You don't know until you actually get into the playoffs what will happen.

One thing I know is a lack of heart when I see it. And this team lacks heart. When it comes to playing the tough teams the Hawks will settle for the jumper most of the time and they'll fall apart if the other team gets in their face or puts pressure on them. Al is great when he is playing against Chicago and Toronto.... But go take a look at all his off games t his year... Those off games were against LA, Orlando and Cleveland. That says it all. This team will win 48-50 games, but the result will be the same it was last year. I guess people have the right to be happy with that.

Edited December 30, 2009 by Hotlanta1981

[Diesel]

One thing I know is a lack of heart when I see it. And this team lacks heart. When it comes to playing the tough teams the Hawks will settle for the jumper most of the time and they'll fall apart if the other team gets in their face or puts pressure on them. Al is great when he is playing against Chicago and Toronto.... But go take a look at all his off games t his year... Those off games were against LA, Orlando and Cleveland. That says it all. This team will win 48-50 games, but the result will be the same it was last year. I guess people have the right to be happy with that.

It's interesting how you only notice a lack of heart when we lose against a good team. When we beat a good team, you are no where to be found. When we beat the Cavs tonight, I want you hear on this board tomorrow talking about Heart!!!

[macdaddy]

We've learned to put the dagger in lesser teams which is a major step forward. Now we just need to learn to focus and execute even when we're down against a good team. Like many have said we're a team oriented offense and defense. When we get down we can't revert to one on one basketball. When we share the ball the other teams start to panic because they don't have defenders who can cover 4 guys who are all 6'8" and super athletic.

[Plainview1981]

It's interesting how you only notice a lack of heart when we lose against a good team. When we beat a good team, you are no where to be found. When we beat the Cavs tonight, I want you hear on this board tomorrow talking about Heart!!!

When was the last time they beat a good team? They beat Utah at home, but Utah is a crappy road team. It's the same as beating Chicago at home. Utah is 5-9 on the road so beating them at home is not some big feat. They've had one really good win in the last 1 1/2 months and that was against Dallas. This team has built it's record on beating crappy teams at home.

[spotatl]

Since they Hawks don't care about the 2010 free agency (except for the whole Joe thing) normally they would be in PRIME position to acquire someone with 2010 salary to put them over the top. The problem is they already fired that bullet when they gave up all their expiring contracts to get Jamal Crawford. The Hawks have VERY little trade fodder they could use to acquire someone to put them over the top. Zaza has a long term deal its not clear he is worth. Evans has a player option for next season. The better he plays the more he is likely to want to be a free agent but a team trying to get 2010 caproom can't count on him opting out. Other than that its pretty much down to trading Marvin and Bibby which people are mostly hesitant to do. And once again Marvin has played below his contract- its not clear how much trade value he has. The Cavs have a TON of options for trades if they decide to go that route. The problem is that the Hawks are sort of hamstrung by the fact that they won't pay the luxury tax and it makes it tough when there are 3 teams in the east that are more than happy to do so.

[TransitionOffense]

Heart? Questioning heart? What game were you watching? Emotion and intensity were at an extremely high level and criticism of that is foolish. This was an excellent game to watch, but involved a poor scoring effort in the 4th while the defensive intensity was still through the roof. All the whining and end of the world comments? I would hate to watch games and competition of any level with you/people who make comments like that.

[Plainview1981]

Heart? Questioning heart? What game were you watching? Emotion and intensity were at an extremely high level and criticism of that is foolish. This was an excellent game to watch, but involved a poor scoring effort in the 4th while the defensive intensity was still through the roof. All the whining and end of the world comments? I would hate to watch games and competition of any level with you/people who make comments like that.

The Hawks folded when things go tough. When things got tough they settle for the easy jumpshots instead of attacking the basket. Just like when LA and Orlando turned up the Heat the Hawks folded. Going 9 minutes in a game without scoring is hard to pull off but the Hawks managed to do it.

Edited December 30, 2009 by Hotlanta1981

[spotatl]

Since I KNOW people are going to blame ISO joe lets go ahead and go to the play by play of the critical stretch of the fourth quarter to see how much the Hawks were going to other players.

Joe Johnson misses 24-foot three point jumper

Al Horford misses 8-foot two point shot

Zaza Pachulia lost ball (Delonte West steals)

Al Horford misses 17-foot jumper

Al Horford bad pass (Anderson Varejao steals)

Jamario Moon blocks Maurice Evans's dunk

Jamal Crawford traveling

Joe Johnson bad pass (LeBron James steals)

LeBron James blocks Joe Johnson's layup

Jamal Crawford misses 17-foot jumper

Josh Smith misses 21-foot jumper

Al Horford misses 6-foot two point shot

Joe Johnson bad pass (LeBron James steals)

Joe Johnson misses 23-foot three point jumper

Joe Johnson bad pass (Delonte West steals)

Jamal Crawford draws shooting foul- misses both

Mike Bibby misses 24-foot three point jumper

This was the critical stretch where the Hawks went scoreless. The turnovers are what stand out- the Hawks have such a strong offense in large part because they have such a low turnover rate- those turnovers were absolute killers. Also notable is the Hawks total lack of offensive rebounds even with all the missed shots.

[MVP23]

..we lost a game...the sky..it falls!

[hawks21]

One thing I know is a lack of heart when I see it. And this team lacks heart. When it comes to playing the tough teams the Hawks will settle for the jumper most of the time and they'll fall apart if the other team gets in their face or puts pressure on them. Al is great when he is playing against Chicago and Toronto.... But go take a look at all his off games t his year... Those off games were against LA, Orlando and Cleveland. That says it all. This team will win 48-50 games, but the result will be the same it was last year. I guess people have the right to be happy with that.

Horford has laid the proverbial egg against the best teams in the league. After his dominating performance versus Indiana, I had hoped he could duplicate that performance at home versus Cleveland. No such luck.

Horford had a few opportunities to hit open jumpers against Cleveland, but missed most of them, and there was a stretch of possessions at the beginning of the disastrous fourth quarter in which he missed three shots and turned the ball over.

Horford is giving an effort, but he has to finish..

Going against Shaq and Z is tough, but Horford has a quickness advantage and he has to be able to nail that 15 foot jumper consistently from anywhere on the court.

[coachx]

Horford has laid the proverbial egg against the best teams in the league. After his dominating performance versus Indiana, I had hoped he could duplicate that performance at home versus Cleveland. No such luck.

Horford had a few opportunities to hit open jumpers against Cleveland, but missed most of them, and there was a stretch of possessions at the beginning of the disastrous fourth quarter in which he missed three shots and turned the ball over.

Horford is giving an effort, but he has to finish..

Going against Shaq and Z is tough, but Horford has a quickness advantage and he has to be able to nail that 15 foot jumper consistently from anywhere on the court.

Hard for me to say a 9 point and 9 rebound game is laying "the proverbial egg."

Sure he missed a couple of 4th quarter baskets, as most of the Hawks. Banging with the Big Diesel is like lifting heavy weights before a jump shooting session. Horford did well early in the game but the banging with Shaq and the 40 minutes of playing time probably took Horford's pep in his step away in that 4th quarter.

Without Horford's toughness that game would have been a blow out by halftime.

Edited December 30, 2009 by coachx

[Plainview1981]

Horford has laid the proverbial egg against the best teams in the league. After his dominating performance versus Indiana, I had hoped he could duplicate that performance at home versus Cleveland. No such luck.

Horford had a few opportunities to hit open jumpers against Cleveland, but missed most of them, and there was a stretch of possessions at the beginning of the disastrous fourth quarter in which he missed three shots and turned the ball over.

Horford is giving an effort, but he has to finish..

Going against Shaq and Z is tough, but Horford has a quickness advantage and he has to be able to nail that 15 foot jumper consistently from anywhere on the court.

I wouldn't expect Al to get 25/18 against Cleveland... But he needs 17/10 type of production.