ORLANDO . . . what is wrong with you guys?

[mrhonline]

If we're being serious, Orlando's problems are because Dwight Howard has not progressed offensively. They will not win rings unless he becomes more versatile offensively.

[buckeye242424]

If we're being serious, Orlando's problems are because Dwight Howard has not progressed offensively. They will not win rings unless he becomes more versatile offensively.

He will. Sooner or later he's going to grow tired of being an entertainer and start becoming a basketball player. The guy is the best center in the league right now strictly because of his size and freakish athletic ability FOR his size. He'll get sick on the dunk contest(s), and the half court heaves before games.

I always group Smoove and Dwight together because of their AAU experiences and knowing each other, you guys know the story. But the truth lies in maturing and their age. Both 24. Six years in the league and they're still babies out there playing the game to have fun. They both have so much room for improvement and they both know the sky is the limit. Dwight will get to a point where dunking won't be the only weapon in his offense, albeit it's still a good one...

[tremor]

Orlando has bigger problem with Vince having health issues, being lazy, and thus inconsistent. The whole team can't find offensive rhythm, Lewis played well only in a couple of games. Dwight has problems with fouls, more because of referees not treating him equally with other players than anything else.

[Buzzard]

"Look, we're just playing terrible, we really are. Offensively, it's just really bad right now. We can't score, we can not score. I need to look at everything, playing different guys, I don't know. It's just not working in the least."

- Stan Van Gundy

Dang, it sounds like he's in panic mode already. I guess this is what Shaq was talking about, when Stan was the coach in Miami. Shaq called him "the master of panic".

Yea Shaq is definetely the ultimate resource for quotes on former teammates and coaches ( find one he has not thrown under the bus) . All Stan did was panic them all the way to the championship series last season. Make sure I got this right, from your perspective Woody is a awesome coach but cannot get us past the 2nd round, Stan is a bad coach but got to the finals last season.

To me he is just being honest. They are playing like crap as you stated and he is willing to own some of the responsibility. When has Woody ever been wrong about his limited rotations after a loss. You know saying I need to look at everything inluding playing different guys. Let me think, Woody admitting his rotations may have been wrong? I think never would apply here.

Edited January 6, 2010 by Buzzard

[TheNorthCydeRises]

Yea Shaq is definetely the ultimate resource for quotes on former teammates and coaches ( find one he has not thrown under the bus) . All Stan did was panic them all the way to the championship series last season. Make sure I got this right, from your perspective Woody is a awesome coach but cannot get us past the 2nd round, Stan is a bad coach but got to the finals last season.

Nope.

All I said was that Stan is going into panic mode already. There's no inference of if he's a good or bad coach.

I'd be silly to say that a guy who has the best center in the league and about 7 legit 3 point shooters playing good together, is an awful coach.

Just like I'd be silly to say that a coach that had won 21 games . . . despite not having a top 10 player overall, a top 15 PG, a decent low post threat, and a bunch of suspect jumpshooters . . . isn't a good coach either.

To me he is just being honest. They are playing like crap as you stated and he is willing to own some of the responsibility. When has Woody ever been wrong about his limited rotations after a loss. You know saying I need to look at everything inluding playing different guys. Let me think, Woody admitting his rotations may have been wrong? I think never would apply here.

Stan is always honest. Sometimes TOO honest. Woody is honest too. Woody's rotations are never a problem to him. He'll blame himself and the team for not being "ready to play". Or he'll adjust his scheme ( mainly on defense ) so they can rebound and defend better.

Stan worries about offense. Woody worries about defense. That's the only difference in the 2, in my opinion.

[Buzzard]

Stan worries about offense. Woody worries about defense. That's the only difference in the 2, in my opinion.

Yea no difference in the two. Stan looks at his lineup; is willing to make changes as far as who starts and who gets mintues and you want to put Woody in the same class as Van Gundy. Dream on northcyde but it was a good try.

Woody does not change crap; he just says we need to play better. He has the least impact on a game as any coach in the NBA. Some nights coaches do need to stay out of the way; but some nights a little more is required than just wearing a nice suit and preaching to the choir.

[MaceCase]

Yet another pathetic loss for the Magic.

[Buzzard]

Yet another pathetic loss for the Magic.

Do not know what is going on with Orlando; but I am sure as hell envious of Toronto. I think 8 and 2 over last ten and with some very impressive wins in that span.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

Yet another pathetic loss for the Magic.

LOL . . . . but elite teams aren't supposed to struggle. Why are the Magic doing this?

It looked like a carbon copy of the game they played vs Chicago, except Stan's adjustment for the Magic was to go ISO Dwight. Well he almost got a triple-double . . . oh wait . . . I guess I can't count the 9 TURNOVERS as part of a triple-double.

Then he went to his bench, and tried to play Brandon Bass instead of Ryan Anderson. LOL . . that worked out well too.

They're elite though. They'll be OK. But if the Hawks beat Boston on Friday, we could be tied for the division lead come Sunday morning, with a win @ Orlando.

[Buzzard]

LOL . . . . but elite teams aren't supposed to struggle. Why are the Magic doing this?

It looked like a carbon copy of the game they played vs Chicago, except Stan's adjustment for the Magic was to go ISO Dwight. Well he almost got a triple-double . . . oh wait . . . I guess I can't count the 9 TURNOVERS as part of a triple-double.

Then he went to his bench, and tried to play Brandon Bass instead of Ryan Anderson. LOL . . that worked out well too.

They're elite though. They'll be OK. But if the Hawks beat Boston on Friday, we could be tied for the division lead come Sunday morning, with a win @ Orlando.

Elite teams not suppose to struggle. Where did you find that rule? Stan made a lot of changes especially in the 4th and they almost pulled it out. I can imagine Woodys' big change would have been ISO JJ to ISO Craw and we would never have gotten back in it. Before you answer, go find a game in which we were 15 to 20 down going into the 4th and almost pulled it out.

[Buzzard]

They're elite though. They'll be OK. But if the Hawks beat Boston on Friday, we could be tied for the division lead come Sunday morning, with a win @ Orlando.

So true man; beat Boston and then Orlando. Hope we can for damn sure; and with the way both are playing right now this may be our best chance of the season to pull off that kind of back to back wins.

Edited January 7, 2010 by Buzzard

[TheNorthCydeRises]

Elite teams not suppose to struggle. Where did you find that rule? Stan made a lot of changes especially in the 4th and they almost pulled it out. I can imagine Woodys' big change would have been ISO JJ to ISO Craw and we would never have gotten back in it. Before you answer, go find a game in which we were 15 to 20 down going into the 4th and almost pulled it out.

LOL . . why make excuses for Orlando though?

Man, the Magic was down double digits to the Raptors for over 1/2 of that game. And Toronto is still one of the worst defensive teams in the league. But they did a niumber on Orlando tonight defensively until the final 6 minutes or so.

So they almost came back and won the game ((( clapping ))) . . good for them.

I just wish our fans were as sympathetic when the Hawks lose games they should've won. At least Nate Robinson had to play like Jordan for the Knicks to beat the Hawks. The Magic just laid down and died for Toronto for about 42 minutes in that game.

I guess the magic question is this:

Are the Hawks an elite team? And if not, is Orlando?

[Buzzard]

LOL . . why make excuses for Orlando though?

Man, the Magic was down double digits to the Raptors for over 1/2 of that game. And Toronto is still one of the worst defensive teams in the league. But they did a niumber on Orlando tonight defensively until the final 6 minutes or so.

So they almost came back and won the game ((( clapping ))) . . good for them.

I just wish our fans were as sympathetic when the Hawks lose games they should've won. At least Nate Robinson had to play like Jordan for the Knicks to beat the Hawks. The Magic just laid down and died for Toronto for about 42 minutes in that game.

I guess the magic question is this:

Are the Hawks an elite team? And if not, is Orlando?

Its not sympathy lol...we want Orlando to lose. If they were in the west I would be completely indifferent; but since they are in our conference and division I pay some attention to them. You call it sympathy; I call not really giving a rats *ss about their team. Unlike you, I never create post about other teams. It is something that just does not even enter my mind.

I do have a hard time rooting against Orlando when they play Toronto; just as I do Orlando vs Chicago. I know its Orlando we want to catch; but realisticly speaking I fear Miami, Toronto, and Chicago catching us for the 4th seed; more than I think there is a chance we can catch Orlando for the division crown. Hope this makes sense to you because it makes perfect sense to me.

Orlando is a team that is so good, worrying about them is useless. Chicago, Toronto, Miami are the teams I worry about. Our teams goal is to catch Orlando; barring major injury not going to happen this year IMO. Chicago, Toronto, Miami, their goal is to catch us. We continue to play like we have over the last 20 or so games one or more of them could very well do it.

So you keep worrying and posting about Orlando. I am going to keep my eyes on Miami, Chicago, and Toronto (whomever else gets hot and in striking distance) while only creating post about my Hawks..

One other thing, everything is excuses with you. If you state something it is logical and a reason not an excuse. Anyone who argues against you is making excuses and not resonable aurguments. You really do need to get over your use of "excuses". That is a very weak argument and one you use way to often. It makes you look like the one using excuses since it is always your most used rebuttal.

Edited January 7, 2010 by Buzzard

[TheNorthCydeRises]

Its not sympathy lol...we want Orlando to lose. If they were in the west I would be completely indifferent; but since they are in our conference and division I pay some attention to them. You call it sympathy; I call not really giving a rats *ss about their team. Unlike you, I never create post about other teams. It is something that just does not even enter my mind.

I do have a hard time rooting against Orlando when they play Toronto; just as I do Orlando vs Chicago. I know its Orlando we want to catch; but realisticly speaking I fear Miami, Toronto, and Chicago catching us for the 4th seed; more than I think there is a chance we can catch Orlando for the division crown. Hope this makes sense to you because it makes perfect sense to me.

Orlando is a team that is so good, worrying about them is useless. Chicago, Toronto, Miami are the teams I worry about. Our teams goal is to catch Orlando; barring major injury not going to happen this year IMO. Chicago, Toronto, Miami, their goal is to catch us. We continue to play like we have over the last 20 or so games one or more of them could very well do it.

So you keep worrying and posting about Orlando. I am going to keep my eyes on Miami, Chicago, and Toronto (whomever else gets hot and in striking distance) while only creating post about my Hawks..

One other thing, everything is excuses with you. If you state something it is logical and a reason not an excuse. Anyone who argues against you is making excuses and not resonable aurguments. You really do need to get over your use of "excuses". That is a very weak argument and one you use way to often. It makes you look like the one using excuses since it is always your most used rebuttal.

So let me get this straight. You don't think we can catch Orlando, even though they're only 1.5 games ahead of us, and haven't been that far ahead of us all year. We've been closer to them, than any of the teams who are behind us, have been to us. But you're worried about those teams catching us?

So in other words, you do believe that Orlando is an elite team. And because you believe that the Hawks aren't elite, we probably won't catch them. That's pretty much it, right? But you do know that the best way to keep those teams behind us, is to try to catch Orlando, and root for them to lose at just about any cost, right?

The only reason why I use the term "excuses", is because when others on the board make "excuses" for the Hawks, they're immeadiately rejected by those who either don't like the coach, or a particular player that may have contributed to the loss, or the team in general.

When Crawful posted that Orlando lost again, you immeadiately cited how much of a winning trend Toronto is on. While what you said was true, it was almost like you were trying to justify why Orlando lost to them. But when people try to do that with the Hawks, they're immeadiately shot down.

It is what it is I guess.

[Buzzard]

So let me get this straight. You don't think we can catch Orlando, even though they're only 1.5 games ahead of us, and haven't been that far ahead of us all year. We've been closer to them, than any of the teams who are behind us, have been to us. But you're worried about those teams catching us?

So in other words, you do believe that Orlando is an elite team. And because you believe that the Hawks aren't elite, we probably won't catch them. That's pretty much it, right? But you do know that the best way to keep those teams behind us, is to try to catch Orlando, and root for them to lose at just about any cost, right?

The only reason why I use the term "excuses", is because when others on the board make "excuses" for the Hawks, they're immeadiately rejected by those who either don't like the coach, or a particular player that may have contributed to the loss, or the team in general.

When Crawful posted that Orlando lost again, you immeadiately cited how much of a winning trend Toronto is on. While what you said was true, it was almost like you were trying to justify why Orlando lost to them. But when people try to do that with the Hawks, they're immeadiately shot down.

It is what it is I guess.

Orlando got to the championship series; the only thing more elite than that is to win the championship. IMO People who do not think Defending Eastern Conference Champion is elite have no clue what the NBA is about. The reason I could cite Torontos record from memory is because as stated I am more concerned with Chicago, Toronto, and Miami catching us; than I think Orlando, an elite team by anyones standards except the truly baskeball ignorant IMO, will come tumbling down to us.

If we catch Orlando great and it will be nothing short of an amazing Mets type season IMO. But if we don't, I want to at least stay in the 4th seed; otherwise I will see the season as almost a complete failure.

And again excuses is a childish argumentive term for someone elses reasoning. Anyone can say your reasoning is your excuse. That is BS IMO; not far removed from the childish crap of he said she said...or you're wrong ... no you are...no I am not....yes you are...and on and on we go.

Edited January 7, 2010 by Buzzard

[macdaddy]

So Macdaddy- of the top 4 teams in the east how many of the coaches jobs do you think should be safe?

I didn't say they should fire Van Gundy. Hell I like him. My point is that their most obvious weakness could probably be fixed by the right coach. I think Riley realized this when he screwed Stan over in Miami. Riley is an egomaniac and a jerk probably but that doesn't make him wrong.

[spotatl]

I didn't say they should fire Van Gundy.

You said "Orlando probably does need a new coach". If you don't mean that the Magic should fire their coach do you think they should be hiring a new coach alongside Van Gundy?

I just think its funny how some people always blame the coach. To me the NBA is the league where coaching matters the least.

[Buzzard]

You said "Orlando probably does need a new coach". If you don't mean that the Magic should fire their coach do you think they should be hiring a new coach alongside Van Gundy?

I just think its funny how some people always blame the coach. To me the NBA is the league where coaching matters the least.

Its funny you should say that. I think it matters the most. Just check the past twenty NBA champions and see how many are headed up by HOF and future HOF coaches.

Edited January 7, 2010 by Buzzard

[spotatl]

I think that Coaches who get great Talent look really great when they win Championships. Then someone like Phil Jackson will get hired to put a team over the top because he has done it before. Unless you want to say Doc Rivers is a great coach I'll stand by my statement that NBA coaching is exceptionally overrated.

Put it this way- I think you are magically going to see Popovich lose a ton of his coaching ability once Duncan retires. Look at Jerry Sloan's results since Malone and Stockton retired.

Edited January 7, 2010 by spotatl

[TheNorthCydeRises]

I think that Coaches who get great Talent look really great when they win Championships. Then someone like Phil Jackson will get hired to put a team over the top because he has done it before. Unless you want to say Doc Rivers is a great coach I'll stand by my statement that NBA coaching is exceptionally overrated.

Put it this way- I think you are magically going to see Popovich lose a ton of his coaching ability once Duncan retires. Look at Jerry Sloan's results since Malone and Stockton retired.

Exactly. Pop pretty much came in on the perfect situation, when he had both Duncan and Robinson. Then he was able to assemble a team that could effectively shut down people, while having Duncan as the offensive centerpiece.

And Jerry Sloan is a perfect example. Everybody respects him as a coach, and believes that he may be one of the top 5 coaches in the league. Having said that, UTAH hasn't posted a winning record on the road since the 2000 - 01 season. That's almost an incredible stat for a coach that respected.

From the time that Jordan pushed Bryon Russell out of the way to beat them in the 1997 NBA Finals, Utah has:

* Been to 1 WC Finals

* Lost in the WC Semis 3 times

* Lost in the WC 1st Round 4 times

* Missed the playoffs 3 times

In that span, Sloan has had three 50+ win teams.

It's not a bad resume from him at all, but maybe not one that lends someone to believe that he's a great coach. Good coach? Definitely. Great coach? No way.

But he hasn't had a top 10 player in the league since Karl Malone and John Stockton were real good back around 2000. Deron is a very good player, but like a JJ, he needs consistent play from his supporting cast. Utah can beat anybody at home, and lose to anybody on the road, because of that quality.

Bottom line . . . good coaches can't turn mediocre talent into champions . . . without a great player.