Plan B.....

[BlackHawkDown]

But whatever the reason, the truth is that everytime a

guy like Dickau comes out he's supposed to be the next

John Stockton when there is nothing to really back it up

other than a solid college career and the fact that they

are both white.

When I see Dickau I see a Brevin Knight without defense

but a better jumper. He might be a more pure PG and he

might look good at times. But at the end of the day you

know he's small and has an aweful lot of flaws and is

really a good backup. Like Brevin he might give his all

in an attempt to makeup for the talent he doesn't have,

but you still know what he is.

In final, there is nothing to show Dan is the next Stockton

or Nash other than a good college career.

That is so F###ing dead on it hurt my God you took the word right out of my mouth

[Watchman]

He has no jump shot, but he is fast, and he can beat a press.

[kelston827]

No, what is funny, Bigot, is the fact that you ARE the one that is off and you just don't see it.

Ask any poster on this site (and there are some very knowledgable people that post here) whether or not they think Larry Bird and Kevin McHale were merely good players who were made into all-stars by the media/fans, or if they truly deserved the credit they earned.

I'd be willing to bet that nearly 100% of the people here would say that Bird and McHale are legit all-stars; easily two of the top 30 or 40 players of all-time.

Your contempt regarding these players has nothing to do with anything other than the fact that they are white. That is your only problem with them.

Playing the race card like that is so cowardly and ignorant, I don't know how you're able to live with yourself.

[Guest]

McHale was obviousally a good player and had great

post moves. Peoples obession with players that are

just athletes is also a bore.

But getting back to Dan... He's got a hellva lot to do to

catch Nash. And as someone said, Nash is alot quicker

than Dan is.

[Diesel]

I will say this about this whole matter.

Bird is one of the greatest players to ever play and I hated Bird. McHale was also a very good player.

However, in McHale's case, he was a very good College player but as a NBA Pro, I would rank him close to Antoine Walker in his skill set. You knew that McHale was going to play as tough as the rules allowed (if you look back on the game, he was a thug) and that he had a good up and under move but his game was overhyped many times.

Especially when it came to being named top 50 in NBA history. That's BS. You mean to tell me that He was top 50 and Nique wasn't? That's some serious BS. For his career he was a 18 ppg, 8 rpg player and he played in the time of high scorers. Nique on the other hand was a 25 ppg, 7 rpg type player for his whole career. That includes Boston, LAC, and San Antonio.

I think that McHale is probably one of the most outstanding cases of media hype. Not that he wasn't good. He was good. However, he never carried a team. He never put up Numbers that showed that he could carry a team. And had he not played with Bird in Boston, it's hard to say if he would have ever played in a championship game.

This isn't the case for all white american players... I mean. I think the world of Pistol Pete, Jerry Lucas, and especially Bob Petit... If we were to cast votes for the best alltime White Players I would put Bob Petit at #1. If we were to cast a vote for Best all time playes, I would put Petit at #4 or 5.

1. Russell.

2. Wilt

3. Jordan

4. Kareem

5. Petit.

However, guys like McHale and even DeBusschre (rest his soul) get a lot of credit mainly because they played for large market teams, they were consistent, and they were white. However, greatness is not a tag I would put on either of them.

So do the media hype American born White players? Was Christian Laettner supposed to be better than Shaq? Was Danny Ferry supposed to be the next Bird? Didn't Bob Sura and Jason Williams get their share of Love? Wasn't Keith Van Horn supposed to be as good if not better than Duncan coming out of Utah? If a White American were to come out of a college program (winning) and was headed towards a pro career, more than likely, the media will give that player more benefit of the doubt than an equivalent black player. They would say... Oh, but he's so smart or Oh, but he's very coachable. The biggest disrespect in all of basketball was the fact that Christian Laettner was a part of the greatest team ever assembled. That more than anything else is probably why Shaq doesn't like to play for the US.

[kelston827]

sorry D.

Must respectfully disagree on McHale.

I recently watched a special on ESPN Classic, and they quoted like 5-7 of the best players of McHale's generation and what they were saying was the exact opposite of what you said. They said that McHale was the most underrated player they ever played against. Barkley, Ewing, Laimbeer were just a few of the guys quoted.

His numbers from 1985-1990 were some of the best put up during that stretch. He averaged over 20 points and 8 rebounds every one of those seasons, and he was one of the best defenders in the league.

In 1986, McHale averaged 26 points, 10 rebounds, 2.2 blocks, 2.7 assists and shot 60% from the floor and 83% from the foul line. Now is that media hype or a legit all-star??

If it looks like an all-star and smells like an all-star....

[chickenstanly]

Thank You. Diesel knows this. I've told him of the

accolades bestowed on Mchale by his opponents

on other occasions. There can be no greater

compliment. McHale was better than Bird.

If anyone was overrated between the two, it

was Bird.

Dominique doesn't belong anywhere in the same

universe as Mchale. Diesel is emotionally bonded

to 'Nique", therefore he will make an attempt to

rationalize that "Nique" was a comparable player.

Numbers don't tell the story in this debate, so

don't attempt to use them.

[KB21]

Nash was not quicker than Dan at the same point in their careers.

Nash came into the league with the very same question marks that Dickau came into the league with, whether they were legitimate or not. Most of the negatives have to do with them being white players. White players always have the quickness question mark. That was the knock on Mike Miller. It was the knock on Steve Nash. And it was the knock on Dan Dickau and Luke Ridnour the past two years. [censored], Travis Hansen tested out as one of the top 10 athletes in the entire draft, yet he was still questioned because he is a white guy.

Nash worked on his quickness through drills. Dan did the same this offseason, and he showed a marked improvement in quickness during the summer league.

You believe whatever you want to believe though.

[chickenstanly]

"Why should I? I love that I'm a passionate person. Why

would I want to change? And be some old boring dude

like yourself."

_______________________________________

Passionate ? No, that's unstable. Me, boring ?

You don't know me. That was another ignorant

comment.

*************************

"Well, whatever you want to call those wacked out

opinions..... They still make you come off as a complete

nut."

_________________________________________

Again, you are saying nothing here. Only using

school yard adjectives to describe nothing.

**********************************

"You think the fact that your so worried about my dating

perference shows your great intelligence? Talking to you

is about as fun as the feeling I get as my wisdom tooth

is coming in."

______________________________________________

Here again, you have said nothing. Simply using

"cute" sayings without saying anything is the

signature of a lightweight.

****************************

"Get the picture?"

_________________________

No. You haven't painted one --- except that all

you are capable of doing is childish name-calling.

Either say something of substance, or shut-up.

[Inside_Man]

1) Superstar players come in all colors, and they're rare in any color.

2) Moronic idiots come in all colors.

3) Yes, some white players are overhyped. The NBA wants to sell tickets to white fans. Some white fans want to see some white players. (Note the use of the word, "some")

It cuts both ways. How many brothers do you see at Thrashers games?

[chickenstanly]

I agree. Hyping white players has been done. It

was certainly not done the case with Mchale or

Bird.

I believe it was done with Maravich to a great

extent. The Hawks have always attempted to

"push" white players. Koncak was a good

example. CC another. Clyde Frazier used to

embarass Pete when they would play.

On the issue of Wilkins, he was over-hyped

as much as any white player. Nothing of

substance --- only "highlights" as his nickname

indicated. Much like maravich, "Nique put

up good numbers for a team that never

really contended year in and year out.

Walton has more of a reputation than he

would if he had been black. Although

one year he WAS great and outplayed

Kareem decisively while Kareem was in

his prime. But still that is not enough to

warrant his present reputation. At least

not as an NBA player.

Stockton was/is overhyped because he is

white. Yes, he put up good assist numbers,

But is hardly comparable to Magic and Oscar.

Dr. J was overhyped. Much like "Nique. But

he was also much better. He was highlight

material, but fundamentally sound.

Jerry West was not overhyped because he

was white, imo.

Laimbeer was nothing more than a part of

a scheme that produced two championships.

I don't believe he got much hype --- at least

not positive.

The old Celtic's, Cowens, Havlacek were better

than most of the black players in so much as

they WON. Great talents they were not. Not like

McHale.

Don't forget that Bird lit up both Dr. J and

"Nique for 60+ ! This isn't mere white hype.

But Diesel's illogical BS about someone carrying

a team means to automatically assume you can

identify who is carrying who ? In a great team

concept, that produces many championships,

this is next to impossible to speculate on. The

one exception would be the Jordan Bulls.

And we all see that Pippin was a bit overhyped

as well.

Overhyping happens in both colors. In fact,

it may be more dependent on "style of play"

than on race.

Maybe not...........

But of all the white players you want to take

down or accuse of such overhype --- Kevin

Mchale is one of the most ridiculous targets

imaginable !!! This guy had the BEST low post

moves in the history of the game ! Won

championships, was annointed as one of

the greatest players that others ever had to

face or attempt to coach against. This comes

from Barkley, Jordan, Sixer coach Billy C. etc.

[capstone21]

Stockton was not overhyped.

He was one of the most solid pgs ever in the NBA.

That man could run a team better then most others. Look what he had to work with and still the Jazz competed year in and year out for over a decade and a half. They had the Mailman and nothing else.

Stockton made that team. He was always under control, had a knack of getting the ball to the right player at the right time, scored when neccessary, he shot for a very high percentage (above .500 which is high for a guard, actually he was usually in the top 10 at the end of the year in field goal percentage with the power forwards and centers) and he was a really good defensive player. Most pgs did not like playing against him. He just was not flashy.

I am not a fan of the Jazz by any means but you can not take away what Stockton has done. In his prime he was as good as any point guard in the NBA today.

[Diesel]

I'm not saying that McHale was good. He was definitely good. However, I'm saying that there were some media hype.

You mentioned his best season.

But how about 1980-81... 10 ppg, 4.4 rpg. 1981-82 13.6 ppg, 6.8 mpg. 1982-1983 14.1 ppg, 6.7 rpg.

I tell you the truth, look at those numbers and knowing how much he played in that time, he certainly put up some Henduisk type numbers.

Yet Nique put up allstar numbers his whole career and was not honored the way that McHale was honored.

My claim is that. Had McHale been Black, the media would have treated him differently. That's all.

[Diesel]

His greatness is not only did he maintain a 25 ppg, 7 rpg average over the life of his career. He was a scoring champion many times. BUT also, he was the face and carrier of the Atlanta Hawks. Many players who recieve such love from the media and some fans have never ever had to go to work knowing that the target is on their back. Every Night Nique put on a uniform, Nique had the big target on his back. Nique had to carry the team into the playoffs.

You can't say the same about McHale. Bird was the target in Boston.

You can't say that about Debusschere. Frazier, Reed, and Russell carried those teams in NY.

But for Nique. He took a team night after night and he found a way to win.

That's greatness.

[Guest]

Passionate ? No, that's unstable. Me, boring ?

You don't know me. That was another ignorant

comment."

That's what you think... However, nobody around here

thinks very much of your opinions.

"Me, boring ?

You don't know me. That was another ignorant

comment.""

As long as you have been on here and talked... Who you

are usally shines through. And you come off as an old and

boring person.

"Here again, you have said nothing. Simply using

"cute" sayings without saying anything is the

signature of a lightweight. "

This does NOTHING to respond to what I said. Why are

you so worried about it? Why is it any of your business?

"

No. You haven't painted one --- except that all

you are capable of doing is childish name-calling.

Either say something of substance, or shut-up."

Maybe you should look in the mirror... If you can stop

thinking up nutty stories long enough=) You old senale

fool.

Your just like your handle says... Your a Chickensh!t Stanley.

[BlackHawkDown]

Bird was good so was McHale but not as good as they were hyped up to be. Bird was maybe one of the top 50 , #47 -50, somewhere in there. McHale was nothing more than a slow scrub who took advantage of the Parrish presence in the center.

[Shorti5514]

This site is the biggest collection of racists that i am aware of. You guys are pethetic. Why does it matter. A player is a player, being white or black isn't going to change what they can do dispite the fact that it is obvious that many of you think so. A player is boring because they just are not because they are white that is just an excuse to start another lame argument. have you guys every actually gone back and read some ot the threads on this site? Do you have any idea of how stupid some of you sound? People play how they play, how they act, or anything to do with them by how they were brought up not because of their skin color. If that is the only reason you act the way you do because of you skin color becasue you think your so much better being white black or whatever then you need to look in a mirror and realize that the person staring back at you needs to get a life.

[Guest]

This site is the biggest collection of racists that i am aware of. You guys are pethetic. Why does it matter. A player is a player, being white or black isn't going to change what they can do dispite the fact that it is obvious that many of you think so."

Maybe you should send your post to Travis Hansen that

likes to note that he's a white player that can jump.

"This site is the biggest collection of racists that i am aware of."

Maybe you should checkout the yahoo messageboards.

The facts are there is a reason only 2 american white

players have cracked the allstar team lately...Wally(who

shouldnt have made it) and Brad Miller who really is

no better than a Kevin Duckworth.

It's not racist to say american white players aren't that

good. Look around the league... Is it true or is it not?

The best out there is Brent Barry/Mike Miller and none

of these guys are great players. They are 14/5 players

at best.

I don't care what Larry Bird did in the 80's. This isn't

the 80's..... It's about now. And the game of basketball

best players are Euro and black players.

[Guest]

I tired of arguing about the subject. However anytime

a white player with an kind of real skill comes out he's

supposed to be the next great white player.

Just like athletic ability alone makes you nothing more

than Baby Jordan. WOW! He's got athletic ability! He's

sure winner! That stuff is just as bad. Players can get

overhyped based on athletic ability alone.

[BlackHawkDown]

that's classic