Al Horford has to play PF - exclusivly

[exodus]

I wasn't talking about his numbers versus Portland, I was talking about a few possessions when Aldridge got switched onto Horford. Also, during the 08-09 season, when Smoove was out, Horford put up 27 and 17 against the Bulls at the 4 in only his second season. Outside of that period, Horford's never had a chance to play exclusively at the four. Also, Horford was getting very few touches on the block that year.

That was against Noah and Tyrus Thomas both of whom are weak, and a lot of those points are in transition. He also had several games during that time when he didn't reach double figures.

He hasn't done crap against Aldridge because Aldridge has such a length advantage that Al struggles to get shots over him.

Edited July 12, 2010 by exodus

[exodus]

So many PF's have amazing back to the basket game like Z. Randolph, Al Jefferson, and wait, who else? Great post, you did it again, you defy human logic with assurance.

Boozer, Duncan, Bogut , Lopez. It isn't just that Horford back to the basket game isnt great. The problem is that his back to the basket game is just bad. He isn't going to suddenly be a back to the basket force just be moving to the 4.

Edited July 12, 2010 by exodus

[exodus]

Wow ex - you are just simply disregarding reality again. Why did Al Horford make the all-star team at center? I dunno - duh - because that's the only place we played him y'think?

And yes - his "back to the basket game" is weak - because he's 6 FOOT NINE and a natural PF. If we had a CENTER he wouldn't be backing down 7-footers.

How hard is this to understand?:angry22:

His back to the basket game sucks because of a lack of skill. You are right it isn't hard to understand. His turnaround fadeaway is horrible and his jump hook is weak as well. Zach Randolph is shorter than Horford and shorter than most of the guys guarding him but that doesn't stop him inside.

[exodus]

Anticipated ex response (since even he knows I'm right he can't admit it)

"A.H. has never played PF in the NBA and we don't know how he might do"

Horford starts there every time Smith misses a game. Given that Smith was out hurt for 13 games the previous season we had plenty of chances to see him at the 4.

He also plays the 4 whenever he is in the game with Zaza.

[AHF]

First of all Horford just made the All-Star team at center. Secondly he isn't going to be a dominant player at the 4 because his back to the basket game is still too raw to be an impact at the 4 or the 5.

The problem right now is that Al is playing pretty exclusively at center. That doesnt hurt him in terms of scoring but it does hurt him on defense because he frequently has to fight for position against much bigger/stronger players and i think it wears him down over the course of the season.

Zaza is a role player, not a starter on a quality team. the Hawks need a true center to come in and play 20+ minutes a game at the center spot and be productive. I cant see any scenario where Horford isn't playing at least 15 minutes at center. But 25+ minutes at center is probably too much IMO.

It makes no sense to pull Horford away from starting at C on this team until we bring in an impact center. A more likely solution is bringing in a guy who is a quality center for 20-25 minutes per game and then playing Horford there for about 15 minutes per game.

After reading every post on this thread (including the follow-up to ex's post above), I agree with ex's post as modified. I think Horford is a well-above-average center in the league and unless we can land a good center (which I don't expect to happen) then I think he will be playing a combo of PF/C for the foreseeable future and that this is a good thing if we can land someone like Shaq or Z, etc. who can give Horford a rest on defense for a chunk of the game.

The key concept in my mind here is VORP - value over replacement player. What is Horford's value at PF over the player we can get to fill the PF spot in his absence versus what his value is over the player we can replace him with at center? The difference is likely to be greater at center than at power forward because he is a very solid center and centers are not easy to find.

Edited July 12, 2010 by AHF

[HAWKSFAN89]

his offensive game is limited at best.

Al can pull up from mid-range and also bang down in the paint.

:write a letter:

[Joker]

Boozer, Duncan, Bogut , Lopez. It isn't just that Horford back to the basket game isnt great. The problem is that his back to the basket game is just bad. He isn't going to suddenly be a back to the basket force just be moving to the 4.

His back to the basket game is above average, bad is a serious reach from statistical or film study point of view. Lopez and Bogut are centers and Duncan can play center as well. Boozer back to the basket game is just average, not even as good as Al's.

[exodus]

His back to the basket game is above average, bad is a serious reach from statistical or film study point of view. Lopez and Bogut are centers and Duncan can play center as well. Boozer back to the basket game is just average, not even as good as Al's.

LOL Boozers is way better than Al. Horfords back to the basket moves are very predictable. He either shoots that turnaround fadeaway which invariably misses or he shoots a jump hook which is easy for a defender to time because he never fakes. The next time he does an up and under move will be the first time.

Boozer scores inside way more than Horford in spite of the fact that he draws more defensive attention and doesn't get as many fast break points. He certainly isn't quicker taking it to the basket than Horford.

[Sothron]

Boozer, Duncan, Bogut , Lopez. It isn't just that Horford back to the basket game isnt great. The problem is that his back to the basket game is just bad. He isn't going to suddenly be a back to the basket force just be moving to the 4.

You mentioned only one real PF in that post. Duncan, Bogut and Lopez are all centers.

[exodus]

You mentioned only one real PF in that post. Duncan, Bogut and Lopez are all centers.

So is Al. nbasuperstars post didn't make any sense. He went on an irrelevant tangent. It doesn't matter what position Al plays his back to the basket game sucks.

Personally i don't see that as a problem as long as he just gives up using it. I never said that he needs to be a good back to the basket player to score well at the 4 or 5.

Amare and Bosh aren't natural centers either but they played a lot of time there. Amareand Bosh both made the All-Star teams as centers. However their scoring wasn't affected at all because they are much better scorers than Al. If Al would just play facing up he would be a much better scorer. He has been successful playing a face up game when he has tried it.

[Joker]

exodus strikes again

[exodus]

That makes about as much sense as most of your posts, none at all.

[Joker]

That makes about as much sense as most of your posts, none at all.

LOL, ok, exodus knows best, lol.

[BudBall]

Well if you read my user name you will know my opinion.

[AHF]

For those who think Al is not a center, which centers in the NBA do you think are clearly better at that position than Al other than Dwight Howard or for those guys how big do you think the difference is between Al at C and each of those guys at center? For example, do you think "Andrew Bogut is a better center and he is hugely better at C than Al Horford is at C"? To me, Al is right there with the next group of centers after Dwight and a healthy Yao Ming. Guys like Brooke Lopez, Andrew Bogut, Andrew Bynum, etc. are not dramatically better centers than Al, IMO, and he is arguably better than guys in that group as well.

The 2nd team All-NBA center this season was Amare Stoudamire. The 3rd team center was Bogut.

[exodus]

LOL, ok, exodus knows best, lol.

Please explain why Al's offense will be so much better at the 4. This should be amusing.

[Joker]

For those who think Al is not a center, which centers in the NBA do you think are clearly better at that position than Al other than Dwight Howard or for those guys how big do you think the difference is between Al at C and each of those guys at center? For example, do you think "Andrew Bogut is a better center and he is hugely better at C than Al Horford is at C"? To me, Al is right there with the next group of centers after Dwight and a healthy Yao Ming. Guys like Brooke Lopez, Andrew Bogut, Andrew Bynum, etc. are not dramatically better centers than Al, IMO, and he is arguably better than guys in that group as well.

The 2nd team All-NBA center this season was Amare Stoudamire. The 3rd team center was Bogut.

I take Bogut, Lopez, Howard, and Yao at center over Horford. I would take Horford in terms of overall ability if he was at his right position over everyone at C outside of Howard.

[Joker]

Please explain why Al's offense will be so much better at the 4. This should be amusing.

I did, you have a search, you were the main one in the thread if you remember. I am not going to repeat myself when the information is readily available.

[AHF]

I take Bogut, Lopez, Howard, and Yao at center over Horford. I would take Horford in terms of overall ability if he was at his right position over everyone at C outside of Howard.

In your mind, how big of a difference do you see between Bogut, Lopez and Yao compared to the guy you see as the 5th best center in basketball (Horford)?

[exodus]

I did, you have a search, you were the main one in the thread if you remember. I am not going to repeat myself when the information is readily available.

If i do a search i may come accross some other things, like comparing Brandan Wright to KG. LOL

You certainly haven't given any logical explanation for anything in this thread.

Edited July 12, 2010 by exodus