NFC Title Game: Eagles @ Falcons?

[lethalweapon3]

Way too premature, but wouldn't that be kinda nice? I think the Georgia Dome would sell out for that one, no?

This assumes the Eagles don't suffer from exhaustion after the shellacking they're giving the Skins tonight. Vick is still in (for some godforsaken reason) and pushing 60 points as we speak.

Vick plays at just half this pace for the rest of the season and somebody's going to open up their pocketbook for him next season, lockout or not.

~lw3

EDIT: Ah, there it is! Bail me out with a transfer, mods ("Other Sports").

Edited November 16, 2010 by lethalweapon3

[AHawks89]

Steelers vs Falcons in SB.

[JTB]

Falcons for superbowl champs........I hope!!!!

[jhay610]

Looks like Vick is becoming the quarterback Atlanta fans always envisioned him to be. What a force.

As you mentioned this is a forum placement fail.

[Gray Mule]

Things I believe:

I hated Vick for what he did - - Worse, I hated how he lied about it, over and over. He had to know

it was wrong, yet he continured to do it, over and over.

When he was a Falcon, he was one of the most gifted players, ever. Yet, he was a mental case.

He thought more highly of himself than he ought to have. He was like a spoiled child.

When he went to prison, the Falcons lost a bundle of money - - Millions of dollars that they shouldn't

have. But, Vick lost everything.

So, prison time plus losing everything apparently has made a man out of the former spoiled brat.

Again last night, that exceptional talent was on display. His mental maturity came shining through.

Last night, Falcon fans saw the M. Vick that they dreamed that he could be while he was in Atlanta.

The most perfect QB ever, at least for the first half of last night's game was there for all to see. He

could do no wrong. If last night's game had been a movie, no one would believe it was real.

If Vick stays healthy and the Eagle's stay healthy, they will not lose another game, including the

Super Bowl. That is, if they play the rest of the season the way they played last night.

:conversation:

[Swatguy]

Things I believe:

I hated Vick for what he did - - Worse, I hated how he lied about it, over and over. He had to know

it was wrong, yet he continured to do it, over and over.

When he was a Falcon, he was one of the most gifted players, ever. Yet, he was a mental case.

He thought more highly of himself than he ought to have. He was like a spoiled child.

When he went to prison, the Falcons lost a bundle of money - - Millions of dollars that they shouldn't

have. But, Vick lost everything.

So, prison time plus losing everything apparently has made a man out of the former spoiled brat.

Again last night, that exceptional talent was on display. His mental maturity came shining through.

Last night, Falcon fans saw the M. Vick that they dreamed that he could be while he was in Atlanta.

The most perfect QB ever, at least for the first half of last night's game was there for all to see. He

could do no wrong. If last night's game had been a movie, no one would believe it was real.

If Vick stays healthy and the Eagle's stay healthy, they will not lose another game, including the

Super Bowl. That is, if they play the rest of the season the way they played last night.

:conversation:

Hate is an strong word. I don't get the "mental case" thing.

Vick was on his way to be what he is now under Reeves and the Reeves system. The shift was in firing Reeves which took Vicks support away from him. Reeves had him surrounded with tutors (life skills), advisors as well as an eye on people aroud him. All that went away as Blank lost his mind and hired Mora with Knapp. Secondly he had no recievers or line. I don't get the "Falcons lost money" thing either. Vick sold the joint out every year and with TV and mechandise the Falcons (and Blank) made a boatload of money.

[EazyRoc]

Hate is an strong word. I don't get the "mental case" thing.

Vick was on his way to be what he is now under Reeves and the Reeves system. The shift was in firing Reeves which took Vicks support away from him. Reeves had him surrounded with tutors (life skills), advisors as well as an eye on people aroud him. All that went away as Blank lost his mind and hired Mora with Knapp. Secondly he had no recievers or line. I don't get the "Falcons lost money" thing either. Vick sold the joint out every year and with TV and mechandise the Falcons (and Blank) made a boatload of money.

didn't they also recover the money they had paid him on that big contract too ?

[AHF]

Hate is an strong word. I don't get the "mental case" thing.

Vick was on his way to be what he is now under Reeves and the Reeves system. The shift was in firing Reeves which took Vicks support away from him. Reeves had him surrounded with tutors (life skills), advisors as well as an eye on people aroud him. All that went away as Blank lost his mind and hired Mora with Knapp. Secondly he had no recievers or line. I don't get the "Falcons lost money" thing either. Vick sold the joint out every year and with TV and mechandise the Falcons (and Blank) made a boatload of money.

As the support system went away, Vick was on his own and burned his bridges in Atlanta through repeated misconduct, lies, and a lazy attitude towards his development on the field.

In terms of no receivers, if you recall he had a guy named Roddy White! It isn't like Matt Ryan was suddenly graced with a new set of receivers. He took the same guys that Vick struggled with and turned them into a much better passing attack.

Vick had the talent to be the best in the league, but I have trouble blaming his lies and other misconduct on the fact that others weren't there holding his hand. Sure, it would have been wise for the Falcons to follow-through on what Reeves set up to hold his hand through the early years in the NFL and keep him out of trouble, but it is ultimately his responsibility. Hopefully he has turned things around but only time will tell as far as his off-the-field judgment. He definitely started working hard for the first time in Philly and it has paid huge dividends in his development as a QB.

[coachx]

didn't they also recover the money they had paid him on that big contract too ?

No. Vick still has a list of creditors that he owes tens of millions of dollars too.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=4425724

[Gray Mule]

Hate is a strong word. Yes, it is. And I say again, I hated his breaking the law, over and over.

I hated his lies. They kept coming.

Mental? If it wasn't mental, please explain why he did this. Also, he now admits that he quit on the

Falcons more than one time. That he was lazy in his work. Here again, a mental problem.

M. Vick was paid a huge bonus, millions and millions of dollars, to play for the Falcons for the

duration of his contract. Instead of playing for the Falcons, he went to prison. A judge said M. Vick

could keep most of the bonus, even though he was in prison and couldn't possibly play for Atlanta.

A small, token payment was to be returned to the Falcons. Bankrupcy wiped out even this small

payment.

Yes, Vick lost all that money. Atlanta lost all that money, too. They paid for something that they

didn't get. And, the money is all gone.

Vick is a super athlete. He can run like the wind. He can change directions almost instantly.

He has a cannon arm. He now shows what he could have been earlier. With all his flaws,

he was great while he was a Falcon, but nothing like he showed Monday night.

:write a letter:

[Swatguy]

As the support system went away, Vick was on his own and burned his bridges in Atlanta through repeated misconduct, lies, and a lazy attitude towards his development on the field.

In terms of no receivers, if you recall he had a guy named Roddy White! It isn't like Matt Ryan was suddenly graced with a new set of receivers. He took the same guys that Vick struggled with and turned them into a much better passing attack.

Vick had the talent to be the best in the league, but I have trouble blaming his lies and other misconduct on the fact that others weren't there holding his hand. Sure, it would have been wise for the Falcons to follow-through on what Reeves set up to hold his hand through the early years in the NFL and keep him out of trouble, but it is ultimately his responsibility. Hopefully he has turned things around but only time will tell as far as his off-the-field judgment. He definitely started working hard for the first time in Philly and it has paid huge dividends in his development as a QB.

You will tell me with Millions of dollars invested and Millions of dollars at stake it was up to Vick (at risk for sure) and his devices to responsible all invested? For Blank to remove the "helps" is as stupid as anything Vick did. How naive to sink millions in as Reeves undoubtable forwarned of his posse and limitations.

[AHF]

You will tell me with Millions of dollars invested and Millions of dollars at stake it was up to Vick (at risk for sure) and his devices to responsible all invested? For Blank to remove the "helps" is as stupid as anything Vick did. How naive to sink millions in as Reeves undoubtable forwarned of his posse and limitations.

Vick was expected to be a professional. That is what is expected of every Falcons player regardless of background.

Is it really too much to ask that he try hard to improve as a player and not commit any significant violations of the law?

Vick couldn't do either of those things on his own. While it may have been stupid to pull away the hand-holders, it really wasn't putting that high of a burden on Vick.

[Swatguy]

Vick was expected to be a professional. That is what is expected of every Falcons player regardless of background.

Is it really too much to ask that he try hard to improve as a player and not commit any significant violations of the law?

Vick couldn't do either of those things on his own. While it may have been stupid to pull away the hand-holders, it really wasn't putting that high of a burden on Vick.

Of course the burden was on Vick, but Blank too. That cat wasn't ready for all of the fame, money and attention and wiser people knew this. With little formal or familial structure that resembles suceess he was doomed without the "helps". You continue to refer to "hand-holding". It was not "hand holding", it was responsible helps for a person/product/employee/investment. This chit aint welfare it is business and Blanks also dropped the ball. Do you believe Blank didn't know about the dogs? Well if he didn't, shame on him. But I believe he knew. I'm not apologizing for Vick. I must say wrong is wrong but It aint wrong until the self believes it is wrong.

Example: On some level most know fornication is wrong but they do it. Then a man gets saved and realize how wrong fornication is. Then he understands the wrong. Vick needed to be taught. Some with much venom(towards Vick of his fall) have done worse but the judgement will come and visit their footsteps too.

Edited November 19, 2010 by Swatguy

[AHF]

Lots of athletes come from broken homes and disadvantaged backgrounds. Most don't lie to their owners, end up suspended from their sport for about 2 years, and admit that they dogged it on the field instead of trying hard to improve.

While I can agree that the Falcons could have better protected their huge investment by having more mentoring in Vick's life and a private detective to follow him around make sure he wasn't part of an illegal and immoral gambling/animal cruetly operation, I put the blame first and foremost on Vick.

I don't think the Falcons needed to go hire someone to teach Vick how to deal with women. At some point, you have to let people make their own decisions and their personal life is one of those areas, IMO.

[Swatguy]

Lots of athletes come from broken homes and disadvantaged backgrounds. Most don't lie to their owners, end up suspended from their sport for about 2 years, and admit that they dogged it on the field instead of trying hard to improve.

While I can agree that the Falcons could have better protected their huge investment by having more mentoring in Vick's life and a private detective to follow him around make sure he wasn't part of an illegal and immoral gambling/animal cruetly operation, I put the blame first and foremost on Vick.

I don't think the Falcons needed to go hire someone to teach Vick how to deal with women. At some point, you have to let people make their own decisions and their personal life is one of those areas, IMO.

"their owners", is that like master?

Never saw Vick "dogged it on the field". He did admit he did not study as he needed but he put all of his energy on the field which was on a high level mostly.

When did he admit he "dogged it on the field"?

Edited November 20, 2010 by Swatguy

[CBAreject]

I have long argued that the worst thing to happen to Vick football-wise was for Reeves to get fired, which only happened because he broke his ankle. This is for two reasons: 1) as already discussed, Reeves understood how immature Vick was, and 2) Reeves offense was actually perfect for Vick, and Mora/Knapp's was the worst possible offense for him. I've posted on this many times, so I won't bore you with all the details again, but essentially, the ideal way to play with a passer with a great arm but poor touch, legs like Vick, and limited acumen is a traditional formation with lots of deep routes and play action. It keeps it simple for him, it minimizes multiple reads, it decreases the raw number of short passes he has to throw, and it draws defenders deep to open up the field for him to run. Vick's greatest breakaway runs came in the playoff season under Reeves because the middle of the field was wide open. Mora/Knapp did the opposite of this and they rigidly stuck by it even though he wasn't progressing. They made Vick throw a lot of short passes and failed to stretch the field. The only thing they did well was the bootleg variations, which were tremendously successful and opened up runs for Dunn. It wasn't all bad, admittedly, it just wasn't ideal for Vick to flourish. Ken Anderson (held highest single season comp% for 20+ years) once said that if you have a pass-controlled offense, you need to complete 70% of your passes. This isn't quite true. In fact, it's only true for short-pass offenses like the WC. Successful short-passing offenses are only successful with comp% in the mid to high 60's. On the other hand, a QB could post a 35% mark and be successful in a pass-controlled offense, if his avg yards per comp were 30+. That is a ridiculous hypothetical, but it uses an extreme case to show that accuracy becomes more important when you're throwing shorter passes, which might be counter-intuitive to many fans. When you add to that the importance of stretching the field to open up the middle, it is doubly important to use a deep passing game with Vick.

[AHF]

"their owners", is that like master?

Never saw Vick "dogged it on the field". He did admit he did not study as he needed but he put all of his energy on the field which was on a high level mostly.

When did he admit he "dogged it on the field"?

Yes. Just like their master. And by master, I mean slave master. /sarcasm

Get real. Vick's role was the QB. The team's and his coach was Mora. The team's and his owner was Blank.

Robert Johnson is Matt Caroll's owner.

It doesn't mean that Johnson "owns" Caroll or that Blank owns Vick. It certainly doesn't make either owner responsible for their player. It means they own the team and that they are responsible, as owner, at least for paying the salaries and expenses of the franchise and hiring senior management.

On dogging it on the field, Vick and others talked about him not working hard:

“There was a lot more I could have done off the field and in the film room that could have elevated my game to a different level,” Vick said. “I was complacent at the time, somewhat lazy, and I settled for mediocrity. I thought what I was doing was enough.”

"t was weeks when I would just relax and take it easy and just try to play off sheer talent. And I think that hurt (Atlanta) in a lot of different ways because I look back and see now I could have done a lot of things differently."

“I want to play my best football up until the age of 34 and 35, and I’m going to put everything into it,” said Vick. “Just imagine what I could have been doing if I really would have been applying myself. That’s a regret I have.”

Dan asked Schaub if recent reports that Vick didn't work hard.

"There were definitely signs of that," Schaub said. "He's such a phenomenal athlete. No matter what happened on the field, he could always overcome it with his athleticism. That was always his fall-back."

Dan asked if that bothered Schaub when he was in Atlanta.

"Definitely," Schaub said. "It got to that point, in my second or third year, where guys took more notice of it. We were in a position to have a really successful season."

Schaub said that he wanted to say something as early as his first season, but at first, couldn't.

"When I was a rookie, I wasn't going to say anything," Schaub said. "I'm a rookie, what do I know?"

Later, Schaub said he tried to encourage Vick to stay a bit longer at practice and in the video room. But it didn't necessarily work. "You can only say so much to someone until a light clicks in their brain," Schaub said.

Read More: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/danpatrick/blog/75141/index.html#ixzz15yZrzWFC

When you admit you were lazy and just costing on your talent, that is dogging it on the field, IMO.

[lethalweapon3]

Sooooo, yeah, I guess people would look forward to this matchup...

~lw3