Time to reboot.

[Wretch]

Many moons ago, when we finally landed in the lottery - or seemed lottery bound - I found myself as one of the FEW people who were actually excited about it. People couldn't understand. We had never been in a situation like that - Babcock traded away draft picks and never allowed this team to lose. When most were watching the Bulls, Pacer, Blazers, and whatnots of the 90's...I was watching the draft and watching the clubs at the bottom...and I realized something. I realized that we had never really been in a rebuild situation and "at the bottom" is exactly where we needed to be (as opposed to putting our SF hopes on mid to late 1sts like Roshown McCloed).

So I, and a few others, got into some pretty good "round about" discussions about tanking, drafting a PG, letting young guys play, hiring a real coach, and the dreaded "M" word (middling mediocrity). Now that we see the full circle of how this works...I wonder if we'll get it right as we stand at yet another crossroads? We all have our opinions of what moves need to be made, but I wonder if collectively...the franchise and the fan base "gets" it now...

For those that think putting together a championship team here is impossible - you're wrong. These players that lead teams to the ECF's and finals are not magically fated to only fall into the hands of NY or Chicago. You have to draft smart, you have to trade smart, you have to hire smart coaches. Most of all, you have to change the culture and the mindset.

Our biggest problem right now is that we do not have a franchise player. It's more than just a guy with a big smile and a marketable personality. These guys draw. Their talent draws the fans and it draws the attention of the better players (see Miami, LA, NY, etc.). They win the games and that draws everybody else. We are trapped in NBA limbo until somebody with some influence understands that you can't nickel and dime with this game.

You can't let a team of free agents push you out of draft position. You can't hire greenhorn coaches. You don't let a guy play mad scientist with your franchise to carry out HIS agenda. You can't hold onto your talent and BABY them until they lose value. You can't "win" without "losing". You can't ignore the potential to draft a star in the draft - because almost every championship team has done so. You can't worry about "luck" - because LUCK just went on to the ECF's. You can't be worried about breaking up continuity (Mike Woodson) when continuity is giving you consistently inconsistent and MEDIOCRE results.

I look forward to debating prospects, trades, coaches and our chances of reaching the ECF's/Finals with you all in the coming years. But I'd really like for the reality of where we sit right now to dig in deep with everybody involved with this organization. It is time we put a face on Atlanta Hawks basketball. Dominique left that responsibility for someone like 20 years ago - it's about time we put somebody in a Hawks uniform that's willing to take it.

[ATL_BALLER]

Couldn't have said it better! Anyone in particular you have in mind?

Edited May 13, 2011 by ATL_BALLER

[Dejay]

You get a +1 from me; if I could give you 50 more, I'd do it. :drinks:

What you've said is what I've been screaming for years following that day of infamy (Nique for Manning). For the longest time, there has been no identity of this team. Correction; that's changed because now we're known as being a squad of And-1 hoopsters who don't have the basketball IQ to win anything that matters.

A paradigm shift in this franchise needs to happen to get things moving in the right direction. And let's get one thing straight; for all the goodness of the playoffs, we're not moving in the right direction as our regular season record and point differential will attest. Nothing feels good about being one of only two teams in North American pro sports to have not participated in the final four of a playoff format in the last 40 years (the Clippers being the other). Nothing feels good about having to wait over a quarter-century between our team drafting a guy who gets an invite to the All-Star game. Nothing feels good about having four lottery picks in the draft, only to leave those drafts with one guy who can play. Nothing feels good about hearing 'MVP' chants of opposing players and being serenaded at home because those 'fans' know better than most of us. Nothing feels good about going to a local bar or a barbershop and getting laughed at for mentioning the Hawks when the guys are talking NBA hoops. And most of all, nothing feels good about knowing that we spent all of those years losing 50+games, only to land in the same spot as Roundfield's teams, Nique's teams, and Smitty's teams. It's like that Gilligan's Island movie where they finally get off the island, only to take another 'three hour tour' and crash land at the same island.

At this point, I don't know who to deal or what free agency will look like after a new CBA is signed off on. But I do know this; I am just sick to my stomach with having to watch yet ANOTHER city (Memphis or OKC) join the list of NBA towns that got to enjoy at least a conference finals run.

GAME, SET, MATCH...

[frosgrim]

Well said Wretch.

[HawkItus]

I present Cleveland, Denver, Utah and soon to be Orlando for your submission. What did they do wrong?

[Joker]

I present Cleveland, Denver, Utah and soon to be Orlando for your submission. What did they do wrong?

Denver did nothing wrong. They had the deepest team in the NBA with Melo. They just had too many low BBIQ players with Melo and Billups. When the playoffs came, it bit them in the butt. After Melo they are the deepest team in awhile in the NBA.

Cleveland- Signings, drafts. The problem with 2003-06 is that when you got a franchise changer, the league was so weak that Lebron as a 18 year old made them a late lotto team when they had low lotto talent outside of James. They still drafted the 2nd round well and got Boozer but they screwed that up. They failed again as they passed on Joe, lost the battle for Michael Redd and ended up signing Larry Hughes for the max. That killed their franchise before "The Decision".

Utah- They just couldn't get people to want to play in Utah. They tried but it was too hard. They just decided to blow it up and get a player with very good potential in Favors and a solid PG in Harris.

Orlando- Bad trades and signing. VC, Lewis signing, overpaying players. Trading Gortat. Orlando shot themselves in the foot. They drafted better than average.

[NekiEcko]

Wretch,

I can feel your pain about this, seriously. I been trying to find the right words to say about this because this team is better than that. There is no true leaders on here. Joe is too quiet, Al is trying but no one is listening and Josh is just Josh. We got all the talent in the world but dont know how to use it. I believe LD did a great job but we need a coach that is going to get into those guys butts if they can't do what they need to do.

My true feelings is this, that Hawks might need to do what the Falcons did after 2007 season, they had to change the culture there. I dont think that Joe, Josh or Al is going to be the face of this team or being the leader on this team. They havent provided themselves period to be even honor with that. It is hard sometime to contiune rooting for a team that doesnt even try like Marvin Williams, JJ and others. This series has clearly told us that we aint ready for the next level or elite status and we need a Face of this Team and franchise player that will be the leader. I am think that it needs to happen ASAP. It has been a very long time since we had a franchise player like Nique or good supporting cast like Deke/Mookie/Smith. I think it is time to scrap it and retool again but this time, we can find the franchise player.

(IMO that person would have to be Chris Paul or Dwight Howard)

[Wretch]

I present Cleveland, Denver, Utah and soon to be Orlando for your submission. What did they do wrong?

Every one of those teams has reached the conference finals - in the past four seasons. We haven't done that in forty years. Had this team just sniffed the ECFs, maybe even a good game 7...the mood in here would be much different. We would be happy and proud just to get there.

I think you just put the final nail in the coffin on this.

Wretch,

I can feel your pain about this, seriously. I been trying to find the right words to say about this because this team is better than that. There is no true leaders on here. Joe is too quiet, Al is trying but no one is listening and Josh is just Josh. We got all the talent in the world but dont know how to use it. I believe LD did a great job but we need a coach that is going to get into those guys butts if they can't do what they need to do.

My true feelings is this, that Hawks might need to do what the Falcons did after 2007 season, they had to change the culture there. I dont think that Joe, Josh or Al is going to be the face of this team or being the leader on this team. They havent provided themselves period to be even honor with that. It is hard sometime to contiune rooting for a team that doesnt even try like Marvin Williams, JJ and others. This series has clearly told us that we aint ready for the next level or elite status and we need a Face of this Team and franchise player that will be the leader. I am think that it needs to happen ASAP. It has been a very long time since we had a franchise player like Nique or good supporting cast like Deke/Mookie/Smith. I think it is time to scrap it and retool again but this time, we can find the franchise player.

(IMO that person would have to be Chris Paul or Dwight Howard)

As a whole, the parts are just not working to their potential. It's a little bit about talent, a little bit about coaching, and a little bit about attitude. Put together, it's a mess that runs when it wants to. I hope people don't take that as we need to be extreme and hasty about things. No. We simply need to capitalize on the assets we have and rebuild the smart way.

...and not like BK did and just dump everybody for nothing.

[Endy9]

I like a good healthy discussion of who we might trade and for whom. But what really burns my butt, is that idiot Bradley, saying we need to trade Josh just because he's the only one we can trade. No mention of who we might get, but we just need to do something. We did something in 99 and suffered for 8 years. No more idiot moves just to do something. You don't trade someone who is considered one of your top two players unless you have a target that would make you better in mind.

[TomSelleck]

I like a good healthy discussion of who we might trade and for whom. But what really burns my butt, is that idiot Bradley, saying we need to trade Josh just because he's the only one we can trade. No mention of who we might get, but we just need to do something. We did something in 99 and suffered for 8 years. No more idiot moves just to do something. You don't trade someone who is considered one of your top two players unless you have a target that would make you better in mind.

The reason the team suffered for 8 years after dumping Steve Smith and Mookie isn't because they got rid of those guys it's because of the moves they screwed up afterward. If in the 2001 draft the Hawks would have held onto Pau Gasol instead of trading him for Shareef Abdur-Rahim or just picked Joe Johnson right there things would have been a lot different.

[T21]

The reason the team suffered for 8 years after dumping Steve Smith and Mookie isn't because they got rid of those guys it's because of the moves they screwed up afterward. If in the 2001 draft the Hawks would have held onto Pau Gasol instead of trading him for Shareef Abdur-Rahim or just picked Joe Johnson right there things would have been a lot different.

Pau/Lorenzen for Reef was one of the worst trades in our history!

Don't get me wrong, Reef was a heck of a player, but his knees were KO!

Edited May 14, 2011 by T21