Could we trade Joe Johnson?

[Guest]

If you want to trade JJ root for the Bulls to get swept decisively by the Heat. Chicago went after Joe this offseason and they'd likely look for another star to piece with Rose. They will have cap space so they could make the deal work if they packaged someone like Deng for JJ.

So you make the bulls better by trading JJ for Deng.

[thecampster]

You get good value for Joe in that trade but we don't have a perimeter threat on that team assuming Crawford doesn't resign and Teague doesn't become an all star. That team has a huge flaw.

Agreed by you still have 3 spots to fill...7 million to spend and a draft pick to grab. The point was...it's doable.

Hmm...need to check the status on John Salmon.

[Diesel]

I just looked at RealGM's trade checker. Joe Johnson isn't any better statistically tha Luol Deng.

Sheesh what a waste of 120 million dollars.........

Wow, that was quite some double team that Deng had to play through. Who was it... Marvin Williams and Josh Powell on the double?? I mean, Deng playing against the best defensive team in the game, being doubled every night, did better than Joe. Wow... That's apples to apples that you're looking at there. For your next trick, you can tell us how Acie Law is a better PG per minute than Rondo!!

Yes I would still want to trade Joe even if I didn't know the details of his contract and that is, by the way, a ludicrous question.

I will make this simple.

I don't believe you.

What is it about Joe's game makes you want to trade him??

[Eddielives]

Wow, that was quite some double team that Deng had to play through. Who was it... Marvin Williams and Josh Powell on the double?? I mean, Deng playing against the best defensive team in the game, being doubled every night, did better than Joe. Wow... That's apples to apples that you're looking at there. For your next trick, you can tell us how Acie Law is a better PG per minute than Rondo!!

I will make this simple.

I don't believe you.

What is it about Joe's game makes you want to trade him??

What is unbelievable is the strange premise you propose evaluating Joe in order to make him seem more attractive...that is to ignore his contract. That's like a guy dating a girl who is really sweet and fun but is dog ugly but your friend tells you if you could just close your eyes, would you still like her and want to date her. Open your eyes Diesel. Joe isn't living up to the billing, no pun in tended, and this is despite the double teams he gets. I am not saying he sucks and has no value. I understand he gets a lot of defense thrown at him. But you can't deny that at his paygrade, you expect a guy to find a way to still lead his team. You want Joe as your team leader making 120 million? Go ahead. Believe this, you won't win a championship.

[sasuke]

An example of a Joe Johnson trade that works and is workable because of team issues.

http://basketball.realgm.com/tradechecker/saved_trade/5886854

Johnson, Williams for Bynum, Artest and Blake.

Now assuming you add a 3rd team that would want to make this a 3 way to make the lineups palatable, it looks like this for the Hawks on paper,

Bynum/Zaza

Horford/

Smith

Hinrich/Artest

Teague/Blake/Sy

You sit at about 65 million with 3 players to sign. Blake is signed for 3 more years at 4 million per. Artest is signed for 11-12 with a 2 year player option at 7+ million. Bynum is signed for one more year with a team option.

Assuming you would want to move Artest, you could do so for two 3-4 million per players.

Trading Joe is doable, it just comes with some obvious risks.

I think there's a better chance of we getting Pau for JJ strait up considering the age & market value factors.

[macdaddy]

The main reason to trade Joe would be that financialy it is difficult to make this team better without getting rid of some of our current contracts. But, the other reasons I'd consider a trade for Joe are:

1) He doesn't seem to have bought into the ball movement system. Before the playoffs I would have said 'fire LD'. But when everyone was actually running the plays we looked great. Joe was the main offender who bogged down the offense

2) He doesn't sell tickets. Someone mentioned this earlier and it couldn't be more true. Is there a marquee player in the league with less responsibility? Do you ever see Joe on a billboard? His tshirt is probably #4 behind Josh, Al, and Bibby. Do you see him in the community? at other sporting events?

I actually like Joe a lot and realize that he is by far the best player on this team. I'd love to keep him around but he needs to step up in ways that just require deciciding to do it.

[High5]

So it's about living up to the contract?

How many players do we have right now that lives up to the contract?

I would say none of them.

If you didn't know the details of Joe's contract, would you still want to trade him???

If you can honestly answer that.... then I think you have a basis. But if all you're doing is looking at the contract and ignoring the team's need and dynamic... then you're not really doing anything but complaining about something that has no effect on how we play.

So we're going to pretend like a $120MM contract isn't a big deal? If Joe was getting paid 1/2 of that then sure I'd love to keep him, but that's not the reality of the situation. His contract is handcuffing our team and it's only going to get worse. If you can't pull off a monster trade to turn the team into a contender then you have to do everything in your power to get rid of that albatross.

Edited May 16, 2011 by High5

[Diesel]

What is unbelievable is the strange premise you propose evaluating Joe in order to make him seem more attractive...that is to ignore his contract. That's like a guy dating a girl who is really sweet and fun but is dog ugly but your friend tells you if you could just close your eyes, would you still like her and want to date her. Open your eyes Diesel. Joe isn't living up to the billing, no pun in tended, and this is despite the double teams he gets. I am not saying he sucks and has no value. I understand he gets a lot of defense thrown at him. But you can't deny that at his paygrade, you expect a guy to find a way to still lead his team. You want Joe as your team leader making 120 million? Go ahead. Believe this, you won't win a championship.

It's funny. You don't have any other reason to trade Joe except his contract.

He leads us in ppg.

He leads us in apg.

He gets over 4 rpg.

He's a 5 time allstar.

He's the only player we have worthy of a nightly double team.

and you say... trade him because he makes too much??

That's ignorant.

I say if you through out the contract, Joe is the type of guy that every team wants.

I also said that you don't understand history.

No player (but Joe) has ever wanted to play here. No free agent has ever said, Atlanta is my first choice. Atlanta is a leverage team. Free agents use us for leverage to get the money they want from their preferred destination.

So we're going to pretend like a $120MM contract isn't a big deal? If Joe was getting paid 1/2 of that then sure I'd love to keep him, but that's not the reality of the situation. His contract is handcuffing our team and it's only going to get worse. If you can't pull off a monster trade to turn the team into a contender then you have to do everything in your power to get rid of that albatross.

For us the fans... 120 Million isn't a big deal.

Let me ask, you... Had we won the NBA finals this year and Joe continued to play like he has... How much would the 120 Million mean to you??

My point is that when we lose, everything is lost in translation. If you want to look at the budget, Look at marvin's 8 per. Look at Hinrich's 10 per. That's 18 Million.

[TomSelleck]

It's funny. You don't have any other reason to trade Joe except his contract.

He leads us in ppg.

He leads us in apg.

He gets over 4 rpg.

He's a 5 time allstar.

He's the only player we have worthy of a nightly double team.

and you say... trade him because he makes too much??

That's ignorant.

Joe's contract may be somewhat feasible right now, but it's not going to be like that forever. His contract is going to account for roughly 1/3 of the team's salary cap for 5 more years. If you look across the NBA, the worst contracts by far are held by perimeter players on the wrong side of 30 - Rashard Lewis, Michael Redd, Andrei Kirilenko, Gilbert Arenas, and Vince Carter. This shouldn't be news but Joe Johnson is a perimeter player who turns 30 in a month. All evidence shows he's not going to keep it up much longer.

[High5]

For us the fans... 120 Million isn't a big deal.

Let me ask, you... Had we won the NBA finals this year and Joe continued to play like he has... How much would the 120 Million mean to you??

My point is that when we lose, everything is lost in translation. If you want to look at the budget, Look at marvin's 8 per. Look at Hinrich's 10 per. That's 18 Million.

We didn't win a championship. We didn't come close. We have never come close and there's no reason to believe we will come close with Joe as our "leader." His contract is a terrible hindrance to our franchise no matter what dream scenarios you can come up with.

[Eddielives]

Joe's contract may be somewhat feasible right now, but it's not going to be like that forever. His contract is going to account for roughly 1/3 of the team's salary cap for 5 more years. If you look across the NBA, the worst contracts by far are held by perimeter players on the wrong side of 30 - Rashard Lewis, Michael Redd, Andrei Kirilenko, Gilbert Arenas, and Vince Carter. This shouldn't be news but Joe Johnson is a perimeter player who turns 30 in a month. All evidence shows he's not going to keep it up much longer.

Don't try to throw common sense at Diesel. He's in his childish attack mode right now and trying to continue a point that has no direction.

[HawksFan87]

We should, if anyone has reached their peak it's joe..

[DrReality]

He kills our offens faster than Chicago's defense. Trade him

[Diesel]

Joe's contract may be somewhat feasible right now, but it's not going to be like that forever. His contract is going to account for roughly 1/3 of the team's salary cap for 5 more years. If you look across the NBA, the worst contracts by far are held by perimeter players on the wrong side of 30 - Rashard Lewis, Michael Redd, Andrei Kirilenko, Gilbert Arenas, and Vince Carter. This shouldn't be news but Joe Johnson is a perimeter player who turns 30 in a month. All evidence shows he's not going to keep it up much longer.

The problem is that you offer no remedies. You just want to get rid of it because of what may happen. By the way, ask Orlando fans if they're happy they got rid of Carter's "bad" contract?

Moreover, what about guys like KG, Allen, Dirk, and some of the other guys who are making that kind of money?? It's funny that we're quick to point out the albatrosses when we want to rebuild and we don't care to look at the successes.

Joe is not Lebron or Wade. However, we're not going to get Lebron, Wade or Kobe to come to Atlanta. What we have is Joe Johnson. A guy who STILL leads us in most categories..even in an off year.

Don't try to throw common sense at Diesel. He's in his childish attack mode right now and trying to continue a point that has no direction.

Please Eddie. I asked you to tell me one simple thing... and you failed. There's no attack necessary for that. Nor do I have to attempt to belittle your position (like you're trying to do with mine). I let the facts speak. What's wrong Eddie?? You can't handle the facts? You can't handle the truth. The only reason you want Joe gone is because of something that doesn't happen on the court.

It's like a guy who wants a divorce because of all the great sex with young girls he could be missing........When his wife is a cougar.

:negative:

[Eddielives]

Yes it is about living up to the contract. I would say JJ and Marvin are the only two Hawks that have very obviously not lived up to their contracts. Yes I would still want to trade Joe even if I didn't know the details of his contract and that is, by the way, a ludicrous question. I think Joe has a positive effect on how we play in terms of wins and losses in the regular season but it is negated by the hefty amount of money this organization has put into him supposedly being able to do more like carry your team like a superstar. You simply don't pay a guy that much if all he does is have a net positive impact on your team. That good?

Do you remember this response to your post beforehand Diesel? I answered every question you posed in order yet you still say I just asked you one simple thing Eddie like I didn't respond to you. No, Diesel. You responded with the brilliant insight of you just don't believe me. How is that having a conversation where I answer your questions one by one very directly and to the point and you just say you don't believe me. Your premise of ignoring Joe's contract to evaluate his value and position with this team is looking at half the picture. Who is afraid Diesel....it seems you have to DELETE HALF OF THE FACTS about Joe in order to make your point about him. I'm looking at the entire picture fella!

When people have tried to play magical stats with you about Marvin, you tore them to shreds. Now you are doing this with Joe. You simply cannot be logical and evaluate Joe without taking into account his contract. His game has dropped and he cannot shoulder the burden offensively or defensively that comes with getting paid like he does. His entire game has taken a few steps back but because he still leads the Hawks in some statistical categories, I guess we have to just take what we can get out of him and be happy with it. I don't think so. Get rid of him and go back to the drawing board.

Edited May 17, 2011 by Eddielives