Just because Jeff Showed up.......

[Diesel]

I think there's an undercurrent who doesn't appreciate Hinrich.

It was Hinrich's defense that mystified Jameer Nelson. Had he not defended so well, we would have lost to the Magic. He didn't stop Nelson, but he stopped Nelson early. Hopefully, when Hinrich comes back, we will run sets with Blink and the Capn... at the PG and no more defer to Jamal Crawford or Joe to play PG.

Kirk actually gives us BBIQ, Defense, and shooting from the PG position. He's great. He may be a guy we might decide to keep because of the stability he brings.

That said, His 10 Million dollar ending contract is something that looks good in trade. The Lakers would snatch him up in a heartbeat. So might the Jazz (Harris is not working out). Nowadays, Orlando is probably looking at him too. Point is, I think he's going to be good for us and I hope he helps with Blink's development.

[Seano]

I agree, Diesel. I have to confess to not being all that pleased with the Hinrich trade at the time. I felt that Hinrich was really slowing down and even looking semi washed-up in Washington, and I just saw trading for him as being much more like a token effort to placate the fans than an honest attempt at getting better for a hopefully much more successful playoff run than our last one had been. I'd also heard that Hinrich was slipping defensively, and that that had more to do with him being moved to SG than just the presence of John Wall. So I was feeling kind of dodgy on Hinrich, and besides that I was really hoping we'd complete the rumored trade with CLE for Ramon Sessions, as I thought that sounded like a hell of a deal for us.

But thankfully I was totally wrong about Hinrich, and came away very impressed with his defensive abilities as well as his obvious basketball smarts. He made a difference to us defensively and in my opinion the team defense as a whole looked notably better after his arrival. Part of that no doubt had to do with us no longer having to run the black hole of defensive liability that is Mike Bibby out there any longer, but a lot of it was just on Hinrich playing very, very well on defense (for the most part anyway in my opinion). I'm happy he's here and looking forward to seeing what will happen when he's able to spend a full off-season and training camp and preseason with us, and *really* get to feeling more comfortable and familiar with his teammates and the type of ball we need to play here.

And his expiring deal could definitely come in helpful to us, if we decide to move that for whatever reason. No offense against Bibby because I do like the guy, but Hinrich>>>>>>>>Bibby, and the addition of Hinrich coupled with the resultant emergence of Teague as a byproduct of that trade>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Bibby by about 1000X.

[TRUEINTELLECTPLAYA]

I don't think its about not appreciating Hinrich. I think it is about what we gave up for Hinrich, 2 1st rd picks and took on more salary. A lot of people would like to have Jordan back, the pick back, and Bibby's shooting off the bench would not be so bad either.

[Diesel]

I don't think its about not appreciating Hinrich. I think it is about what we gave up for Hinrich, 2 1st rd picks and took on more salary. A lot of people would like to have Jordan back, the pick back, and Bibby's shooting off the bench would not be so bad either.

Yeah, I want the 2nd pick of the 2005 draft back too. However, it's not coming back. My point is that having Kirk is not a bad thing. In fact, it is a good thing. He is what we needed. A defensive PG who can run an offense and shoot. He's helping Teague. I think Teague has speed that Kirk doesn't have but Kirk has the BBIQ, experience, and defense that Teague lacks. One thing is for certain, had we not made the trade, we would have never found Teague. He would have ended up like Acie or Salim. A dude that showed some flashes but could never win time on the court.

Moreover, to see Hinrich shut down Nelson like he did really made me hopeful. Moreover, if Hinrich would have gotten better by game 5, we would have beaten the bulls.

Edited May 21, 2011 by Diesel

[TRUEINTELLECTPLAYA]

Yeah, I want the 2nd pick of the 2004 draft back too. However, it's not coming back. My point is that having Bibby is not a bad thing. In fact, it is a good thing. He is what we needed. A defensive PG who can run an offense and shoot. He's helping Teague. I think Teague has speed that Kirk doesn't have but Kirk has the BBIQ, experience, and defense that Teague lacks. One thing is for certain, had we not made the trade, we would have never found Teague. He would have ended up like Acie or Salim. A dude that showed some flashes but could never win time on the court.

Moreover, to see Hinrich shut down Nelson like he did really made me hopeful. Moreover, if Hinrich would have gotten better by game 5, we would have beaten the bulls.

This whole BBIQ thing comes up way too often with Kirk. When did he show it consistent to basically say he has it and Teague lacks it? Hinrich did not help us do anything during the regular season. We were worse with him and yes I understand the competition got tougher, and I take that into account, but he was supposedly traded for because he gave us a better shot at reaching the ECFinals, which means he was suppose to make us a better team against the better teams, and he did not consistently. Personally, I don't see some great BBIQ from Hinrich. He really does not get others involved any better than Teague, he is only slightly better than Teague defensively, as I remember it he got torched by Rose 2 out of 3 times and could not even stay in front of Bibby in the last game we played Miami and got blown out of our own building. I like Kirk because he helped us get out of the 1st round which I will not try to take away from him but at the same time I can not give him things I do not see. If he had such a great BBIQ why didn't he help Washington win more games or why didn't he figure out a way to play great defense just 1 of those 20+ road games they lost in a row? I don't get it, I like Kirk because he helped my team get out of the 1st round even though we had accomplished that 2 years in a row minus him but I think the best thing he offers now is his expiring contract. Lastly, how can someone kinda point me to his great BBIQ in progress since that word is thrown around so much?

Edited May 21, 2011 by TRUEINTELLECTPLAYA

[Diesel]

This whole BBIQ thing comes up way too often with Kirk. When did he show it consistent to basically say he has it and Teague lacks it? Hinrich did not help us do anything during the regular season. We were worse with him and yes I understand the competition got tougher, and I take that into account, but he was supposedly traded for because he gave us a better shot at reaching the ECFinals, which means he was suppose to make us a better team against the better teams, and he did not consistently. Personally, I don't see some great BBIQ from Hinrich. He really does not get others involved any better than Teague, he is only slightly better than Teague defensively, as I remember it he got torched by Rose 2 out of 3 times and could not even stay in front of Bibby in the last game we played Miami and got blown out of our own building. I like Kirk because he helped us get out of the 1st round which I will not try to take away from him but at the same time I can not give him things I do not see. If he had such a great BBIQ why didn't he help Washington win more games or why didn't he figure out a way to play great defense just 1 of those 20+ road games they lost in a row? I don't get it, I like Kirk because he helped my team get out of the 1st round even though we had accomplished that 2 years in a row minus him but I think the best thing he offers now is his expiring contract. Lastly, how can someone kinda point me to his great BBIQ in progress since that word is thrown around so much?

Whenever there's a trade, there is a bit of a chemistry difference that has to be overcome.. Usually with time. When Kirk first got here, he was really a man on an island. These core players of ours have been experimenting with LD's motion system for 6 years. People wanted Kirk to get it and understand the players in 6 games. That's not goin to happen. Then there's trust. For the longest, Josh didn't trust Hinrich. Hinrich would damn near beg Josh for the ball. However, when we played Orlando, you saw his defense and his BBIQ on display. The trust began there. He and Al worked a pretty good pick and pop. He knew how to handoff and cut (something that many of our players don't do and don't know). He also learned where to find his shot.

Teague is great. I think Teague looked very good against Chicago. He still has a lot to learn though. BBIQ is not something that you are born with. BBIQ is based on experience and coaching. Kirk's father was a coach. Kirk played for Roy Williams. Kirk started his career under Scott Skiles (who I believe is one of the best Guard coaches out). Teague has played under Woody and LD. While I believe that LD is a good PGs coach, I don't think Teague has played enough to match BBIQ with Kirk.

As to your point about Kirk with other teams.

When he got to Washington his job was to play OG and groom John Wall. Wall had a very good year, but Kirk is not an OG. Nor do I believe Washington has the mentality to win significantly at this point. You could have put Steve Nash, Jason Kidd, CP3, or Deron on that Washington squad and if they were playing OG, they would have fared no better.

About Teague. I think that Teague is ready to assume the starting PG position now.. that's with our without Hinrich being here. I actually think they'd make a nice duo. And I love the fact that Teague was so efficient with the ball. Very few turnovers. But let's call out what Teague did. He played IsoTeague and used his speed to beat guys off the dribble. I love that. We need a guy who can do that. But Teague still has a lot to learn about being a floor general.

If we keep Kirk, it will be interesting to see how he and Teague plays after LD's camp.

[Eddielives]

With Teague's emergence in the Bulls series, the Hawks have luckily found themselves in a very good position at point guard. With Hinrich, you have the smart veteran who can shoot and play good defense while managing the team fairly well. With Teague, you have the explosive quickness and good ball handling skills that can frustrate your opponent. If Teague can continue to learn with Hinrich at his side to fine tune his passing and pg skill in general, the Hawks will be fine for several years to come, for one, at the point.

[RedDawg#8]

I think Hinrich is very valuable but a little overhyped. I think against the Magic the only reason Kirk was a better matchup than Teague was his outside shooting because it helped keep the Magic honest. But against most teams who don't have a true shotblocker Teague is more valuable with his ability to break the defense down. Kirks defense is not better than Teagues honestly. Kirks smarts don't help his body get around screens as well as Teague. That said, I love having his toughness on our team. Him and Teague both play hard every second they are out there and with our team I value that alot.

[Diesel]

With Teague's emergence in the Bulls series, the Hawks have luckily found themselves in a very good position at point guard. With Hinrich, you have the smart veteran who can shoot and play good defense while managing the team fairly well. With Teague, you have the explosive quickness and good ball handling skills that can frustrate your opponent. If Teague can continue to learn with Hinrich at his side to fine tune his passing and pg skill in general, the Hawks will be fine for several years to come, for one, at the point.

Something that we can agree on. However, Hinrich is not the only guy that can do this. I also credit LD and Nick the quick for working with Teague. IF a good trade comes, I would move Hinrich. Especially if we can loose ourselves of Marvin (if the CBA deal doesn't go). I would just hope that we could replace him with a cheaper PG who can defend. I would take a look at Jonny Flynn. Word is Rubio is coming and Flynn is out. We would require much coaching though. Get Mark Price.

I think Hinrich is very valuable but a little overhyped. I think against the Magic the only reason Kirk was a better matchup than Teague was his outside shooting because it helped keep the Magic honest. But against most teams who don't have a true shotblocker Teague is more valuable with his ability to break the defense down. Kirks defense is not better than Teagues honestly. Kirks smarts don't help his body get around screens as well as Teague. That said, I love having his toughness on our team. Him and Teague both play hard every second they are out there and with our team I value that alot.

I agree, but I disagree about the defense. a good 50% of defense is placement. Everytime you saw Jeff on the bench, Kirk was in his ear. That's because Kirk knows how to defend Rose and to find holes in Chicago's defense. Teague is aptly equipped to do what Kirk may not have been able to (speed). That's why I believe going forward, they would be a great match... it is just that Hinrich makes a whole lot and has lots of trade value. We will be tempted.

[Wurider05]

What do you think we can get for Hinrich/Marvin 17 million?

[Diesel]

What do you think we can get for Hinrich/Marvin 17 million?

Just a guess here.

We can get Pau Gasol .

We can get Vince Carter and Robin Lopez.. and if we throw in Zaza, we can get Hakim Warrick

We can get Calderon and Klieza

We can get Kaman and Foye.

[Supporter]

Just a guess here.

We can get Pau Gasol .

We can get Vince Carter and Robin Lopez.. and if we throw in Zaza, we can get Hakim Warrick

We can get Calderon and Klieza

We can get Kaman and Foye.

WE CAN'T GET PAU GASOL FOR KIRK/MARVIN!!!! Pau Gasol is an Allstar/Allnba player, early in the season he was considered the Laker's best player. We got Kirk for Bibbly/ a pick/ and an unproven rookie, think about trading them with Duck for Pau Gasol. Yeah...

[Crank]

Just a guess here.

We can get Pau Gasol .

We can get Vince Carter and Robin Lopez.. and if we throw in Zaza, we can get Hakim Warrick

We can get Calderon and Klieza

We can get Kaman and Foye.

Only players we can get on that list and i would even put it at under 20% chance is Calderon and Kleiza they would laugh us off the phone on any of those other deals.

Marvin is at this point worth -0

[TomSelleck]

One thing is for certain, had we not made the trade, we would have never found Teague. He would have ended up like Acie or Salim. A dude that showed some flashes but could never win time on the court.

I think a much better Hawks comparison would be Boris Diaw. Acie and Salim proved they couldn't play for ANY team. Diaw may not have been able to play for the Hawks for various reasons, but he was able to play for other teams. Even if the Hawks hadn't finally played Teague major minutes against the Bulls, some other team would have eventually given him a chance.

[GameTime]

Just a guess here.

We can get Pau Gasol .

We can get Vince Carter and Robin Lopez.. and if we throw in Zaza, we can get Hakim Warrick

We can get Calderon and Klieza

We can get Kaman and Foye.

If we can get Pau Gasol for Marv/Hinrich, Sund needs to be on the phone now.

[TRUEINTELLECTPLAYA]

I'm not a huge fan of Kaman or Foye but I think they would be good for our team and I think we could get Kaman and Foye for Kirk and Marvin or Kirk and Zaza just my guess that the Clip are not going to want to pay both DeAndre Jordan and Kaman next year.

[coachx]

I think it would take Smoove + fillers to get Kaman or Gasol.

I think Marvin is being over valued.

Edited May 23, 2011 by coachx