Vince Carter

[Vol4ever]

Oh I watch the league thats how I can smell what you are putting of so strongly

You are the only person on this planet who thought VC played well posting a youtube clip of his 2 best games in a Sun uniform doesnt mean he played well. Its a reason they are looking to buy him out .

Its reason that after having him one season the magic decided move him again and thought Gilbert Arenas and Hedo were better longterm options and now after a half of a season the Suns have decided they would rather buy him out ?

Are you his agent or something because you are straight selling sucker bets .

Claiming how he played better than 2 bench guys in a starting role next two one of the best shot creators in the entire league in one of the best offensive systems in the entire league only helps you fool the espn watchers . Anyone who has actually seen VC play the last year knows your entire argument is ridiculous .

VC is done but lets sign him to the full MLE to learn that lesson the hard way . Thanks but no thanks Id rather he let him go be a bargain for the Lakers or spurs at the veteran exception than give him the full MLE for him to joint he most worst contracts list with us .

Yep lets learn the lesson the hard way when other playoff teams pick up pieces needed to win a championship and we remain the same ol Hawks. I assure you VC can put the ball in the basket better than any Hawks including the 120 million dollar man we have. VC is a prime time scorer and the Magc knows they made a mistake trading him.

We DO NOT hve a player on this roster that can take over the game in the closing two minutes.............VC has and still can.

[Crank]

Yep lets learn the lesson the hard way when other playoff teams pick up pieces needed to win a championship and we remain the same ol Hawks. I assure you VC can put the ball in the basket better than any Hawks including the 120 million dollar man we have. VC is a prime time scorer and the Magc knows they made a mistake trading him.

We DO NOT hve a player on this roster that can take over the game in the closing two minutes.............VC has and still can.

roflmao did you just step out of a portal to from 2003 ?

he will sign with a contender for the minimum or partial MLE contract but he would get the full MLE from us and be the on the worst contracts list by next summer .

They would sign him with little expectations for pennies on the dollar and anything he adds would be a bonus in additions to what there consistent superstars already brings .

We would sign for multiple years and as evident by your post still think hes the VC of 8-9 years ago not the 35 yr old guards who has lost much of athleticism and still expect 2003 results .

You cant assure me of anything because Ive seen it with my own eyes and VC is nowhere near the player Joe Johnson is right now .

This is typical hawkfan desperation move

Lets go and find the oldest player we can watch his you tube clips and convince ourselves hes still the same player he was at 10 years ago.

The fact that you would want to entertain the nonsense of bring him in because hes a better closer than the

18 mil Joe

12 mil josh

12 mil AL

is exactly what is wrong with this franchise to begin with .

If you think VC is your answer then obviously dont understand the problem .;

[Eddielives]

This thread proves that some of you simply don't watch the league.

Vince had a better year as an "old man" at 34, than both Jamal Crawford and Marvin Williams. He's still good enough to be a starting 3 in this league, and definitely good enough to be a quality 6th man. Like people say, he'll probably go to Chicago, and become Derrick Rose's "Ron Harper", making that team even more potent ( especially if Thibs can get him to play better defense ). The only thing in decline about Vince, is his athleticism. Lucky for Vince, athleticism wasn't the only part of his game. He's a borderline Hall of Fame player that still has the ability to play at a high level at times.

Forget what he always did to us . . . look at what he did a mere 3 months ago vs a team that made it to the Western Conference Finals

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mnl3SqeQZWA

Then he did this the next game

Tell Marvin to do that on consecutive games. Hell . . tell Jamal or JJ to do this on consecutive games.

Please start watching the league folks.

I don't get it either. Vince makes up for what he has lost in his superstar ability with a still solid game and some heart. I would welcome him to this team as a spark off the bench. Folks not seeing this is beyond me.

If he's affordable, how does Hinrich, Carter, Marvin, Powell and Pachulia coming off the bench sound? Not bad to me.

[Crank]

I don't get it either. Vince makes up for what he has lost in his superstar ability with a still solid game and some heart. I would welcome him to this team as a spark off the bench. Folks not seeing this is beyond me.

If he's affordable, how does Hinrich, Carter, Marvin, Powell and Pachulia coming off the bench sound? Not bad to me.

of course you wouldnt but I could simply post games 1-5 of the Magic series for Jamal maybe Northcyde should watch the hawks more instead of making such ridiculous claims.

VC at the minimum is value..... VC at the full Mle for 3-5 years is not what about that you dont see ?

Players like him dont join teams whose best players in there primes are not even considered better than him or at least as good as he was in his not for the minimum at least

Shaq didnt do it I see no reason why VC would do it .

You know yourself he wouldnt pick us over the Bulls unless we offered him a full blown MLE deal . Who in there right mind gives a 35 year old VC 3-5 years ?

[Wretch]

You know yourself he wouldnt pick us over the Bulls unless we offered him a full blown MLE deal . Who in there right mind gives a 35 year old VC 3-5 years ?

^^This is /thread right here.

See my signature. The problem is not Vince or Shaq, or what they can/can 't do. It's not JJ's 120 million, Smoove, Al, or Marvin. It ain't CP3 or Howard...or any of that. The problem is simple. Take the above quote, squeeze the juice out of it, and taste it. That's what irrelevancy tastes like. If there was an Atlanta Hawks flavored Kool Aid, that's what it would taste like. Only instead of the Kool Aid man with a pitcher of some frosty, juicy, grape sh!t on the package, you'd have Roshown McCleod holding up a pitcher of water - and you serve it room temperature with no ice...on a hot day (and yes, I've been drinking).

Time to update the sig? Yeah.

Edited June 21, 2011 by Wretch

[TheNorthCydeRises]

I don't get it either. Vince makes up for what he has lost in his superstar ability with a still solid game and some heart. I would welcome him to this team as a spark off the bench. Folks not seeing this is beyond me.

If he's affordable, how does Hinrich, Carter, Marvin, Powell and Pachulia coming off the bench sound? Not bad to me.

Eddie . . . ask Crank who would be a better starting SF for the Hawks . . . Marvin or Vince?

And watch him LIE.

See Eddie . . I can keep doing the youtube posts, and try to watch him rationalize how this dude is done. And notice that I'm ONLY posting games in which he'd played in Phoenix this year. Vince's stats aren't great. They're pretty average. But what the videos are showing, is that the guy still possesses a scorer's mentality, and has the ability to post a very good game every now and then. Even elite level type games. It's the same type of thing that Jamal gives us at times, but from the SF position. A position of NEED on this team.

Nope . . . he'd rather rationalize that because Vince is 35 years old, that he can't ball. That guys like Pape Sy and Damien Wilkins would be better options for the Hawks, simply because the Hawks can pay them the bare minimum, instead of paying Vince 3 - 5 million for a one or two year stay in ATL. Vince isn't a superstar anymore, so he's garbage in his eyes. But the videos say otherwise.

Still posting ONLY Phoenix games . . . not games from 2003. And the thing that is standing out in all of these games, is that Vince basically plays within himself. He's not trying to do a lot of extra stuff. He's either catching and shooting the 3 ( and knocking them down ), or posting up on occasion, or taking people off the dribble to create for others. Those attributes alone are worth 3 - 5 million for the next year or two.

But nope. Crank would rather hope the Hawks find some "diamond in the rough" with the 48th pick, and hope a G-Tech player like Iman Schumpert can be the next Mario West/Royal Ivey combined, and be a "great" spot minute defender for us.

Still ONLY posting Phoenix games.

Guys like Crank would try to belittle me, you, Vol4ever, and anybody else who dare oppose his opinion that Vince is done, when people who REALLY watch the league, know better. None of us are expecting the superstar version of Vince. But if Vince gave us more at the SF position than Marvin, and gave us streaky Jamal Crawford like production from that spot, the Hawks would be a MUCH BETTER team.

Despite being a "mummy", Vince simply knows how to play the game. He's not going to be great every night. But he'll be solid enough not to hurt you on a nightly basis.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

STILL only posting Phoenix games.

And let's clear up something about Phoenix. If Phoenix picked up the team option on Carter's last year on his contract, they'd have to pay him 18 million dollars. Them not wanting to bring back Vince has NOTHING to do with his play in Phoenix. It's just that because they're not a championship caliber team, it makes no sense to pay Vince 18 million. I would almost bet they'd bring him back for 5 million though. Especially now, since Nash would be the only guy making 10+ million on the team.

Eddie . . that's why Crank, despite what he says, doesn't watch the league. Watching the league means that you do more than catch a few Hawk games on SportSouth, ESPN, or TNT. Watching the league means that you'll actually watch games in which you have no vested interest in. Maybe it'll be on NBATV. Maybe it'll be on one of the live streaming game sites. Maybe it'll be on youtube when people post chunks of games, not just highlights. Watching the league means that you actually pay attention to the league. You pay attention to the strengths and weaknesses of teams and players. That way, when a team burst on the scene like Memphis, you're not shocked at what they do . . because you've actually seen them play.

It's the same type of argument that people had against Monta Eliis and how he wouldn't help the Hawks. They believe silly ish, because they actually don't watch the league. Visual evidence can be there right in front of their eyes, and they still won't believe it, because of silly beliefs about the player. Rationalize because Monta can't stop anybody on defense, that he wouldn't be a good fit . . . despite Monta having the ability to play at a much higher level than a guy like Jamal . . and more consistently.

And people think I hate Jamal. I don't hate Jamal. I hate the way he plays sometimes and how he makes his own self an inefficient player unnecessarily. What I have acknowledged though, is that Jamal is one of the only shot creators we have on this team. And that production from him is usually vital for the Hawks to win. But if he's ice cold, he should be nailed to the bench . . even if it means extending Marvin's minutes. That's always been my stance on Jamal.

Seriously . . . could this guy come off the bench for the Hawks and help us? Could he START at the 3 in place of Marvin, and help us? His paltry 36% 3 point shooting would've placed him ahead of JJ, Jamal, Josh Smith and Marvin. With Vince being a career 37% 3 point shooter, could he actually up that percentage to around 40%. Could he still average 17.9 points per 36 minutes ( which was better than Jamal's 16.9 and Marvin's 13 points per 36 minute numbers.

Garbage?

Pape Sy is garbage.

Vince is an aging Hall of Famer that is transitioning his game from an explosive scorer, to a timely shooter who can make open jumpers. No way the Hawks spend 3 - 5 mill on a player like that though, and go into luxury tax land. That's not what we do.

What we do is scavenge through dumpsters, and come back up with players like Sundiata Gaines . . simply because he has Georgia ties.

[coachx]

Vince Carter would be great tp have on this team. He is a guy the ASG may allow Sund to use the MLE on but their would be fierce competition for him.

I would assume other contenders like the Mavericks, Spurs, and Bulls would throw the MLE at VC too. VC would still be quite deadly in Chicago helping Rose close out games. All those teams could use him to get over the top. At least he feels jaded by the Magic so we do not have to worry abouth them.

Edited June 21, 2011 by coachx

[sasuke]

VC is done. Give me T-Mac with BAE over VC with MLE any day. He's going to be a Bull.

[AHF]

I'd love to pick up Vince for cheap on this team because he can still contribute more than our current bench guys like Pape Sy and Damien Wilkins. Two points from this thread do bear repeating in a caveat emptor kind of way:

(1) The Magic thought less of him than the thoroughly mediocre and overpaid Hedu Turkoglu.

(2) The Suns were better once they benched Vince Carter in favor of Jared Dudley. Here is a detailed take from the Arizona press on why Vince should be benched for Dudley (before they actually did the benching):

http://www.examiner.com/nba-in-national/should-the-suns-consider-starting-jared-dudley-over-vince-carter

After going through the increased passiveness of Vince's offensive game (3pt up, fts down, shooting efficiency down, etc.) and his non-existent defensive impact, the punchline for the article is about Vince not delivering an impact on the floor:

It's not what a certain player can do - potential.

Or even what they have done in the past - legacy.

In the NBA, unfortunately, it's all about what that player is doing right now.

And, right now, Vince Carter is just not giving the Suns what they need on a consistent basis.

Given Vince's lack of heart historically, this is definitely a "buyer beware" position. Having Vince to supplement your team is a great idea. Having to count on him is not a position I would want to be in.

Orlando's GM talked about Carter as "fool's gold" before taking a dive and trading for him:

By then, the Magic will know whether Carter was worth the expense, or simply fool's gold.

That's how Orlando general manager Otis Smith referred to him on Feb. 22, 2007, when rumors circulated that the Nets and Magic were discussing a Carter trade for Darko Milicic, Hedo Turkoglu and J.J. Redick.

"I'm not going to take a step back and fall for what I call fool's gold," Smith said then. "It shines and it glitters, but it just doesn't stick or pass the test."

The GM changed his tune Thursday night:

It is clear Otis Smith lived to regret acquiring Carter. We'll see if his next team joins Phoenix, Orlando and Toronto as teams who depart from Vince questioning his commitment.

[Crank]

I'd love to pick up Vince for cheap on this team because he can still contribute more than our current bench guys like Pape Sy and Damien Wilkins. Two points from this thread do bear repeating in a caveat emptor kind of way:

(1) The Magic thought less of him than the thoroughly mediocre and overpaid Hedu Turkoglu.

(2) The Suns were better once they benched Vince Carter in favor of Jared Dudley. Here is a detailed take from the Arizona press on why Vince should be benched for Dudley (before they actually did the benching):

http://www.examiner.com/nba-in-national/should-the-suns-consider-starting-jared-dudley-over-vince-carter

After going through the increased passiveness of Vince's offensive game (3pt up, fts down, shooting efficiency down, etc.) and his non-existent defensive impact, the punchline for the article is about Vince not delivering an impact on the floor:

Given Vince's lack of heart historically, this is definitely a "buyer beware" position. Having Vince to supplement your team is a great idea. Having to count on him is not a position I would want to be in.

Orlando's GM talked about Carter as "fool's gold" before taking a dive and trading for him:

It is clear Otis Smith lived to regret acquiring Carter. We'll see if his next team joins Phoenix, Orlando and Toronto as teams who depart from Vince questioning his commitment.

AHF but there is nothing wrong with VC according to Northcyde he is simply transitioning :biggrin:

Why would anyone want someones VC's age to replace Marvin with a similar contract to marvin's ? If you told me we could get him for a contract similar to the 2-3 million per year that Grant Hill was getting from the Suns then I would be very open to that but I dont see that happening at all.

[DrReality]

Every player in this situation will want to play for the Heat which would be OK with me. Don't think he is the answer for us.

[Seano]

Heh, I'm shocked there are three pages worth of argument over Vince Carter, as at this point he is highly marginal at best and will be turning 35 years old in a couple of months. If we could get him for $1M or less on a one year deal to come off the bench, I wouldn't mind that, but anything beyond that though in my opinion would be a foolish waste of money on a player who is aging very rapidly. There are much better bench options out there I think.

[Vol4ever]

roflmao did you just step out of a portal to from 2003 ?

he will sign with a contender for the minimum or partial MLE contract but he would get the full MLE from us and be the on the worst contracts list by next summer .

They would sign him with little expectations for pennies on the dollar and anything he adds would be a bonus in additions to what there consistent superstars already brings .

We would sign for multiple years and as evident by your post still think hes the VC of 8-9 years ago not the 35 yr old guards who has lost much of athleticism and still expect 2003 results .

You cant assure me of anything because Ive seen it with my own eyes and VC is nowhere near the player Joe Johnson is right now .

This is typical hawkfan desperation move

Lets go and find the oldest player we can watch his you tube clips and convince ourselves hes still the same player he was at 10 years ago.

The fact that you would want to entertain the nonsense of bring him in because hes a better closer than the

18 mil Joe

12 mil josh

12 mil AL

is exactly what is wrong with this franchise to begin with .

If you think VC is your answer then obviously dont understand the problem .;

Well Crank, I've been around since 1974 and understand talent. Not discounting your ability but in the Joe Johnson comaprison show me how HJoe carried the team on a consistent basis in the lat two minutes of a game. I think we are all aware that VC is on the downside of his career and NO I would not want to sign him to a 5 yr deal.

My question for you would be? It is obvious that this team as constructed cannot compete with MIami and Chicago in the east and to add to that Chicago is a johnny come lately team and we been rebuilding for 10 years! So who would you bring in?

[TheNorthCydeRises]

I'd love to pick up Vince for cheap on this team because he can still contribute more than our current bench guys like Pape Sy and Damien Wilkins. Two points from this thread do bear repeating in a caveat emptor kind of way:

(1) The Magic thought less of him than the thoroughly mediocre and overpaid Hedu Turkoglu.

On that point, is the problem Vince . . or just horrible decision making by Otis Smith? It was CLEAR that Turk was in decline with the way he played in Phoenix. Otis makes the trade for him and Jason Richardson, thinking the sum of both of them could do more for the team, than Vince could do singluarly. I mean, Otis basically blew up a top 4 seed in his quest to get to the title. Some fans may like that, but he did it stupidly. Vince did everything he was supposed to do in Orlando, except get them to the NBA Finals. Hedo hasn't played well in 3 years. Then Otis trades the only backup center to Howard on the team. The fault lies with the Orlando management, not with Vince.

(2) The Suns were better once they benched Vince Carter in favor of Jared Dudley. Here is a detailed take from the Arizona press on why Vince should be benched for Dudley (before they actually did the benching):

http://www.examiner.com/nba-in-national/should-the-suns-consider-starting-jared-dudley-over-vince-carter

When you actually do the research yoruself, and not rely on the article writer, this is what it shows

Record of the Suns with DUDLEY as a starter: 5 - 10

Record of the Suns with CARTER as the starter: 22 - 19

The article was written in one of two bad weeks he had as a Sun. A typical "should we change the chemistry of the lineup because we are losing" type article. But as those youtube clips showed after that day, Vince was solid more than he was garbage. They needed Vince to be a star, seeing that they had let Amare go, and others on the team outside of Nash couldn't get it done on a consistent basis.