Had this mid morning thought....

[Diesel]

What if Horf is not so good as a PF?

What if C is his best position and putting him at PF just neutralizes him?

I know every broadcaster in the world has suggested that he would be better at PF, but what if he's not?

I'm sure that this question invites all kind of statistical ramblings, but just to keep it simple, if Horf is not good at PF, then we're wasting our time looking for a "real" C. Or if Horf is not good at Pf, then he might not be any better than what we have?

What prompted this thought was Amare Stoudamire.

He plays Some C, but he will tell you that he's a PF.

I started to compare Stoudamire and Horf.... At the PF, there's no contest. Stoudamire is that dude that you look for if you want a game changer at the PF. Not just him.. but KG, Bosh, Boozer, Gasol, Dirk, Aldrich, Scola, and even Zach Randolph. When I consider these Allstar type PFs, I think about Horf and I say, he doesn't really have the skillset of any of them.

I know more ramblings about stats are coming but on the floor, Horf may just be slightly above mediocre as a PF?

So what if that's the case?

[LastDon]

It's absolutely the case and the solution would be to trade him now while the perception is that he is some type of great power forward if we could get equal value ie Monta Ellis..but the hawks best bet would be to stay pat because teams want us to basically give our quality players away.. in Horford's defense he is a much better rebounder than all of those guys if a premium is placed on defensive reboundin which is Horfords strength..I think that we still have players in Smith and Horford who have room for growth..with us being a team in the elite 8 in the league the hawks made a mistake by not sticking to BKs script and continue building through the draft..we aren't that far off and not trying to sound like a homer but I think the Hawks could have beat the Mavs in a series..

[Swatguy]

What if Horf is not so good as a PF?

What if C is his best position and putting him at PF just neutralizes him?

I know every broadcaster in the world has suggested that he would be better at PF, but what if he's not?

I'm sure that this question invites all kind of statistical ramblings, but just to keep it simple, if Horf is not good at PF, then we're wasting our time looking for a "real" C. Or if Horf is not good at Pf, then he might not be any better than what we have?

What prompted this thought was Amare Stoudamire.

He plays Some C, but he will tell you that he's a PF.

I started to compare Stoudamire and Horf.... At the PF, there's no contest. Stoudamire is that dude that you look for if you want a game changer at the PF. Not just him.. but KG, Bosh, Boozer, Gasol, Dirk, Aldrich, Scola, and even Zach Randolph. When I consider these Allstar type PFs, I think about Horf and I say, he doesn't really have the skillset of any of them.

I know more ramblings about stats are coming but on the floor, Horf may just be slightly above mediocre as a PF?

So what if that's the case?

While he is at the height covetness, package him to Orlando. He, Marvin and two 1's might get D12. Perhaps Al and Joe for D12 and agent00. You had to notice in Dwight's interview with Steak, he was not at all annoyed asked about wearing a Hawk uni.

[Diesel]

While he is at the height covetness, package him to Orlando. He, Marvin and two 1's might get D12. Perhaps Al and Joe for D12 and agent00. You had to notice in Dwight's interview with Steak, he was not at all annoyed asked about wearing a Hawk uni.

Believe me, I would love to have Smoove/Howard here in Hawks uni's for the rest of their careers. I believe that Orlando would definitely consider a package with Al as the headliner. However, we would have to give up something other than Marv. Nobody wants Marv. And 2 #1s are a given.

What i see is:

Al, Hinrich, 2 #1s for D12 and whoever they want to be rid of... Maybe Hedo?

[Randy]

I think you may be onto something. He's not really big enough to play center, but that may actually be his best position against a lot of centeres in the league. Truthfully, there aren't that many great centers out there now. Al either outperforms or holds his own against almost all of them, except Dwight Howard. So keep Collins around for times like that.

As for trading him know while everybody else still thinks he's great- what makes us smarter than all of the scouts, coaches and GMs in the league?

[capstone21]

then again he might be that dominate 20 - 12 PF with a decent center to line up with.

[Trueblood]

I've thought the same thing. He may be slightly better offensively at PF but with the stretch 4 seeming to be the new trend in the NBA, he's going to be wearing himself out on the defensive end a lot as he'll be chasing guys out to the 3 pt. line and what not.

If Smoove doesn't get dealt, the team is better off with Al at 5 and Smoove at 4 as opposed to 4 and 3.

[Randy]

Good point - moving Al from center to PF is one thing. Moving Josh from PF to SF is a whole lot worse, but the two go together.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

Horford by the numbers: PF versus C

POWER FORWARD

+35 plus/minus number, but lineup with him at PF was only 31 - 32 ( 49% )

Offensive rating: 91.4

Defensive rating: 89.6

48 minute production

21.2 pts

11.5 rebs

4.8 asst

eFG% - 54.2

PER - 19.6

Opponent 48 minute production

18.3 pts

10.4 rebs

2.4 asst

eFG% - 46.4

PER - 13.1

CENTER

Only a +11 plus/minus number ( due to those regular season blowouts ), but lineup was 41 - 33 when he played center ( 55% )

Offensive rating: 97.6

Defensive rating: 97.3

48 minute production

20.8 pts

13.4 rebs

4.6 asst

eFG% - 56.8

PER - 23.4

Opponent 48 minute production

18.6 pts

13.2 rebs

2.3 asst

eFG% - 50.3

PER - 17.7

*****************************************

Horford's offensive numbers at center was top 3 in the league, only behind Dwight Howard and Amare Stoudemire. At PF, even Josh Smith's numbers at PF was slightly better than Horford's.

Horford's defensive numbers at power forward are very good. Top 5 good last year. His defensive numbers at center were mediocre at best.

So offensively, he's better off at Center, where he can use his speed and his outside shooting ability to get easier attempts on offense. And while he's no slouch at PF ( unless it's the playoffs ), his offense is still better at center.

Defensively, he's by far better playing Power Forward. He's big and fast enough to handle most PFs in the league, while he has trouble with the post scoring bigger centers.

Everybody probably knew this, but the stats back it up.

[Trueblood]

I stand corrected on Al's defensive numbers although we have to keep in mind that the majority of his minutes have come at C so with a limited amount of minutes to work with, it's still tough to get a good read on what he would do over the course of 82 games and 36 minutes a night at the 4 spot. The numbers can change.

Regardless, there is still the Smoove factor and like Randy says, unless Smoove gets dealt, the team is better off with him at the 4 then the 3.

OTOH, if Smoove is gone then I could definitely see Horford at the 4 and Marvin getting full time minutes at the 3.

[MaceCase]

Mike Woodson gave Al too much training chasing PGs around for him to have any issue chasing down a stretch 4.

[Plainview1981]

Al is a tweener.

His offensive game at PF is predictable and I think the best way to go is to find a decent/good center... Not someone that will play 35MPG (Unless it's someone like DW of course) and just play the matchups. The problem is that we need an intelligent coach that use the matchups favorably. If the Hawks are going to keep Josh and Al they might as well embrace the strengths which will require a productive center with size and a bruiser back up PF.