now you know haters

[ag82]

You can say it's basketball science all you want, but your stat is severely flawed. This stat basically rewards a player for doing nothing. And you can say that they took a similar amount of shots or played a similar amount of minutes, but if a player with the stats i mentioned above can have a higher % than the player who clearly played the better game, the statistic does not work. For instance, in basketball you are expected to miss shots. A missed shot cannot carry the same weight as a made shot because it affects the game in a completely different way. In fact, if you miss half of your shots all the time, you will be considered a pretty good shooter. And again, you can't even begin to judge how effective someone was overall in a game without factoring in what they did at the free throw line, how they shot from 3, or even how many points they scored. Your stat is just a fake stat that is specifically tailored to make Josh look good. There are way too many holes to poke in it.Basketball is way more than science. There are way too many things that happen during the course of a game that we don't have the capability to keep track of to be able to summarize a performance based on 4 individual stats that all affect the game in different ways.

Edited March 21, 2012 by ag82

[arhawkfan]

Just to point out JJ rates in the top 100 all time on turnover % per basketball reference that's not too bad. He would turnover the ball a tad over 11 timer per 100 possessions

[itsslomotionbaby]

ok so joe is hot right now, i still see too many game where hes got 3 pts. at half time and might not show up until3 minutesleft in the game and guess who has to caarry the hawks until he thaws out. thats josh smith. Now the most harshest critic in basketball is charles barkley.hes golng to tell it likr it is. he has sad," the nba made a mistake in not sending josh to the allstar game in place of joe".that shows you he has been getting league attention. he also said about joe." hey i love joe, but he has to give me more than this, you can get a guy for 10 million a yr. to do what he is doing." joe should be averaging27 a night for120 million.if he was signed for15 i wouldnt complain.jos goes on these stretches where he is off for 5 & sometimes 10 games. i hear domonique say too many time after halftime hey we got to get joe going.

[thecampster]

You can say it's basketball science all you want, but your stat is severely flawed. This stat basically rewards a player for doing nothing. And you can say that they took a similar amount of shots or played a similar amount of minutes, but if a player with the stats i mentioned above can have a higher % than the player who clearly played the better game, the statistic does not work.

For instance, in basketball you are expected to miss shots. A missed shot cannot carry the same weight as a made shot because it affects the game in a completely different way. In fact, if you miss half of your shots all the time, you will be considered a pretty good shooter. And again, you can't even begin to judge how effective someone was overall in a game without factoring in what they did at the free throw line, how they shot from 3, or even how many points they scored. Your stat is just a fake stat that is specifically tailored to make Josh look good. There are way too many holes to poke in it.

Basketball is way more than science. There are way too many things that happen during the course of a game that we don't have the capability to keep track of to be able to summarize a performance based on 4 individual stats that all affect the game in different ways.

I can not begin to tell you how wrong this is. In a basketball game, you get "X" number of possessions. Think about it this way. There is a 24 second shot clock. There are are 60 seconds in a minute, 48 minutes in a game, 2880 seconds in a game, 120 minimum possessions in a game. There are 5 ways a possession can end. A missed shot, a made shot, a turnover, a foul leading to free throws and time expires. So when the game begins each team starts with a basic 120 possessions. Shooting fast leads to more possessions per game, as does an offensive rebound. Only And-1's and 3-pointers lead to extra points. For the most part...it is a battle of possessions. Take the Boston, Atlanta Game on Monday. Both teams made 29 shots. Boston made 2 extra free throws and made only 1 extra 3. It was a game of possessions. Boston took 1 more shot than Atlanta in the game. Boston had 16 turnovers, Atlanta had 17. Joe had 7 of them. Do not even begin to tell me that Joe's turnovers weren't a major problem. We marginalize Josh's 8 assists by saying "because Joe knocked down the shots" but fail to realize that Josh was doing something Joe wasn't...taking care of the basketball before the shot was made. It is a game of possessions and in that game, turnovers and shot clock violations are killer because you don't even get a try at a basket. I would rather we shoot and miss then turn the ball over. A turnover is almost guaranteed points at the other end. At least with a bad shot you have a chance to get back on defense. I'd rather a player do something stupid with 12 seconds left on the clock (ie pass to Zaza while he's moving) than hold the ball till 5 seconds are left in the shot clock and pass out for a bail out.

[NineOhTheRino]

Joe does this every year. He'll catch fire for a month then he'll suck for a month. Mark my words! The mediocre JJ we've all come too familiar with will return shortly.

[Sothron]

Joe does this every year. He'll catch fire for a month then he'll suck for a month. Mark my words! The mediocre JJ we've all come too familiar with will return shortly.

Flat out not true. The only time Joe has been up and down for protracted periods the last two seasons has been due to injuries. Otherwise when healthy he's a very consistent performer on both ends of the court.

[willthepureshooter]

Stats are for cavemen...

[Guest]

I prefer the eye test on the court to all this mumbo jumbo stats especially at end of games - a bad turnover, missed freethrows, a bad 3-pt shot, not closing out defensivley - stuff like that.

Edited March 21, 2012 by JayBirdHawk

[High5]

Joe does this every year. He'll catch fire for a month then he'll suck for a month. Mark my words! The mediocre JJ we've all come too familiar with will return shortly.

That's irrelevant. We only count the good ones here on Joesquawk.

[Supporter]

We can talk all we want about stats but when the stats say that guys like Nate Robinson are better than Joe I start to care about them less. The simple eye test shows that Joe is a good ball handler and doesn't force bad passes on offense unlike Josh. I'll just take that to show that Joe turns the ball over less than Josh.

[thecampster]

We can talk all we want about stats but when the stats say that guys like Nate Robinson are better than Joe I start to care about them less. The simple eye test shows that Joe is a good ball handler and doesn't force bad passes on offense unlike Josh. I'll just take that to show that Joe turns the ball over less than Josh.

Eye test is fine. I'll go with that. Every time Joe gets the ball around the 3 point line with more than 14 seconds on the clock, take a look and start counting. Every time he takes 5-10 seconds off the clock trying to set up his man and then passes to someone who is flatfooted, mark that possession in your head. Then count by the end of the came how many there were.

[Supporter]

Josh had 29 shots today he missed on 19. Can we atleast agree that Josh should not be shooting more shots than Joe ever!!! Joe scores more points on less shots than Josh, he is a better shooter and better at getting the shots he wants, not what the defense gives him.

[thecampster]

Josh had 29 shots today he missed on 19. Can we atleast agree that Josh should not be shooting more shots than Joe ever!!! Joe scores more points on less shots than Josh, he is a better shooter and better at getting the shots he wants, not what the defense gives him.

6 of those shots are fouled going to the basket...So he was really 10 of 23....still not good.Joe was 7 of 19 tonight, not much better. 2 of Josh's shots were 3 pointers shot in the last few seconds of the clock from guess who.I do not want Josh taking 20+ shots a game. Right now, the only cats I want with free range to shoot are Kirk and Green, maybe Vlad if he ever gets healthy. But Josh's shot options early were equally terrible....Kirk seems to be able to draw fouls at will around the basket if he chooses to. We seem to be changing identity the last 10 games or so to trying to draw fouls on our way to victory. Even Joe's foul shooting numbers are up.Brighter side....Joe got steals tonight, blocked shots which is one of my biggest complaints about him. Anyone as big/long as he is should be a havoc creator.

[Supporter]

6 of those shots are fouled going to the basket...So he was really 10 of 23....still not good.Joe was 7 of 19 tonight, not much better. 2 of Josh's shots were 3 pointers shot in the last few seconds of the clock from guess who.I do not want Josh taking 20+ shots a game. Right now, the only cats I want with free range to shoot are Kirk and Green, maybe Vlad if he ever gets healthy. But Josh's shot options early were equally terrible....Kirk seems to be able to draw fouls at will around the basket if he chooses to. We seem to be changing identity the last 10 games or so to trying to draw fouls on our way to victory. Even Joe's foul shooting numbers are up.Brighter side....Joe got steals tonight, blocked shots which is one of my biggest complaints about him. Anyone as big/long as he is should be a havoc creator.

Foul shots don't count add on to a players field goal attempts (unless you meant that Josh had 6 and 1's?). And why should Joe not have free range to shoot, his pps is better than those of Kirk, Willie, and Vlad, and his three point shooting is better than Vlad's and Kirk's. Edited March 22, 2012 by Supporter

[willthepureshooter]

51 minutes 32 points 17 rebounds and 5 assists!!! And you guys are complaining about him shooting too many shots on an injury depleted team? Lol you guys are really out of touch with reality! Josh and JJ stepped up tonight but all you "stat cavemen" are worried about are numbers... Geez!! No wonder Smoove wants to leave Atlanta!

[Sothron]

6 of those shots are fouled going to the basket...So he was really 10 of 23....still not good.Joe was 7 of 19 tonight, not much better. 2 of Josh's shots were 3 pointers shot in the last few seconds of the clock from guess who.I do not want Josh taking 20+ shots a game. Right now, the only cats I want with free range to shoot are Kirk and Green, maybe Vlad if he ever gets healthy. But Josh's shot options early were equally terrible....Kirk seems to be able to draw fouls at will around the basket if he chooses to. We seem to be changing identity the last 10 games or so to trying to draw fouls on our way to victory. Even Joe's foul shooting numbers are up.Brighter side....Joe got steals tonight, blocked shots which is one of my biggest complaints about him. Anyone as big/long as he is should be a havoc creator.

Shots don't count against a player when they are fouled. It only counts as a shot attempt if the shot goes in.