Did Joe step back and allow Smoove to shine... on purpose?

[EazyRoc]

He played a huge role by not becoming a selfish ball hog. But honestly, would you rather Josh chuck from 20ft or JJ?Next question, did Josh play team ball or JJ when Horford went down?Next question, was Josh playing for a contract?Next question, did JJ give Teague more of a chance to learn and play in his first full year or Josh?

Joe did not take half a shot less so Josh Smith could "shine" if that's what people want to call it. I don't know why this is even up for debate. These questions about playing team ball or playing for contracts mean nothing. It's just a diversion from the topic we are discussing, so you can go on and on about how you don't like Smith (yes, it gets old). Smith took more shots because he took more of those terrible long range jumpers. It's ridiculous to think that Joe is deferring to allow Josh Smith throw up low percentage shots all season.

[Supporter]

Joe did not take half a shot less so Josh Smith could "shine" if that's what people want to call it. I don't know why this is even up for debate. These questions about playing team ball or playing for contracts mean nothing. It's just a diversion from the topic we are discussing, so you can go on and on about how you don't like Smith (yes, it gets old). Smith took more shots because he took more of those terrible long range jumpers. It's ridiculous to think that Joe is deferring to allow Josh Smith throw up low percentage shots all season.

Joe took a step back, but not for Josh to shoot low percentage shots....you are right.

[Buzzard]

Joe did not take half a shot less so Josh Smith could "shine" if that's what people want to call it. I don't know why this is even up for debate. These questions about playing team ball or playing for contracts mean nothing. It's just a diversion from the topic we are discussing, so you can go on and on about how you don't like Smith (yes, it gets old). Smith took more shots because he took more of those terrible long range jumpers. It's ridiculous to think that Joe is deferring to allow Josh Smith throw up low percentage shots all season.

It is not a diversion from the topic. Being a ball hog is not playing team ball. But back to the topic, JJ obviously did let Josh take more shots. My point being, if JJ calls for the ball do you think Teague does not pass it to him?Instead he played within the offense even though Horford was gone and allowed Josh to be the primary scoring option with Horford out. Now you keep saying Josh only took 1/2 a shot more last season. The point here is Josh took almost three more shots a game with Horford out and JJ took less shots with Horford out. A three shot swing in Josh's favor, not just a 1/2 shot like you keep harping on!If JJ wanted to take more shots he could have, no way in hell Teague refuses him the ball, instead he deffered to Smoove.

[Diesel]

Stats have shown that JJ had a very productive and efficient year last year. The only reason his points were down is because of his decrease in shot attempts. JJ is still a very talented scorer, the only things that worry me are his injuries and inability to rebound the ball at his position. Yes, he is not worth his contract, but it's a lost cause to talk about it right now. If we really want to improve we have to build around Joe, Horf, and Teague because they are the only guys that will stay on the team past next year. That means getting a true low post scorer that can compliment JJ's perimeter game, Horfords midrange jumpshot, and Teague's quickness.

Let's remember, Both JJ and Josh can into the season in very good shape. JJ spent time working out with Durant. The people who are trying to dismiss this thought miss that with Horf and Hinrich going down, JJ's shot attempts also went down. Yet, he stayed around the same efficiency. So now, it's not that Joe all the sudden got winded. I think Joe let Josh shine.

[Diesel]

This is absurd. So Joe played a huge role in Josh chucking long mid range shots...?

My thought is that it worked something like this.Because Horf was out, Joe saw more double teams and when doubled he sent the ball Smith's way instead of trying to score over the double.

[Diesel]

Joe did not take half a shot less so Josh Smith could "shine" if that's what people want to call it. I don't know why this is even up for debate. These questions about playing team ball or playing for contracts mean nothing. It's just a diversion from the topic we are discussing, so you can go on and on about how you don't like Smith (yes, it gets old). Smith took more shots because he took more of those terrible long range jumpers. It's ridiculous to think that Joe is deferring to allow Josh Smith throw up low percentage shots all season.

EZRoc...

You keep trying to make this about the .6 shots less.

OK, Let's make this plain.

When Horf's 12 shots per game disappeared... Where did they go??

Zaza is a good answer but his attempts only went up 2.9 attempts per game.

The combination of Hinrich/Teague only went up by 4.3 attempts per game.

That means that there were 7.2 big attempts per game to be counted. Where did these attempts go.. and wouldn't you expect that Joe would get some of them??

Here's a big clue. Collins attempts didn't go up at all.

[Buzzard]

My thought is that it worked something like this.Because Horf was out, Joe saw more double teams and when doubled he sent the ball Smith's way instead of trying to score over the double.

And of course Josh always feeling it from outside jacked jumpers with 10 seconds or more on the clock; instead of feeding a team-mate or heaven forbid taking the ball to the hole lmao.

[Bahamut]

Did Joe suck in the playoffs because he... sucks?

[EazyRoc]

Did Joe suck in the playoffs because he... sucks?

He stepped back and allowed Josh to shine.

[Diesel]

Did Joe suck in the playoffs because he... sucks?

Joe sucked in the playoffs? When?? In our wins? :0 I think it was already shown that in our losses, he was more productive than his regular season average.If you're looking for somebody who stepped back in production, Josh is the name you should call.

[AHF]

Josh was terrible offensively but still better than Joe in the post-season for total game and impact.

Joe sucked in the playoffs? When?? In our wins? :0

When did making zero contribution to our only wins become a bragging point? Edited June 15, 2012 by AHF

[Diesel]

Josh was terrible offensively but still better than Joe in the post-season for total game and impact. When did making zero contribution to our only wins become a bragging point?

So we applaud the guy who show up in wins but disappears in losses?

[EazyRoc]

So we applaud the guy who show up in wins but disappears in losses?

Yea that's how it works in the real world.

[ftown]

another summer of Diesel hilarity lol :)Go Hawks!

[Diesel]

another summer of Diesel hilarity lol

Go Hawks!

I would respond to this, but you won't get it to 2017 so what's the point??

Hey Buddy... You do know that BK is no longer GM right!

Why am I wasting time responding to somebody who only posts on HS every half decade??

You're the ultimate fair-weather fan!! Now that's hilarity!!

[AHF]

So we applaud the guy who show up in wins but disappears in losses?

Both deserve condemnation for their poor offensive numbers. Joe doesn't get much applause from me considering he had one plus game and even in that one he only scored 29 points on 28 shots and went 1-4 in overtime.Josh deserves recognition for showing up every game passing and rebounding the ball:Game 1 - 18 rebounds, 4 assistsGame 2 - 12 rebounds, 5 assistsGame 4 - 13 rebounds, 5 assistsGame 5 - 16 rebounds, 6 assistsGame 6 - 9 rebounds, 4 assistsEven though Josh was abysmal offensively, this is why he was definitely better than Joe in the playoffs...but, even so, Josh doesn't deserve big kudos when you look at the damage done to our offense through his poor shot selection. It was pretty painful - but better than Joe's poor scoring combined with little else of value.

[Buzzard]

You guys are comparing a SG FG% of .373 to a PF FG% of .386 and acting like Josh lit it up because he shot .13 better than JJ. Am I the only one here that thinks just being able to compare a PF FG% to a SG is just way wrong. Or is this what we Hawks fans are now willing to accept as adequate from our bigs so long as they pass the ball and hit the boards?

[AHF]

You guys are comparing a SG FG% of .373 to a PF FG% of .386 and acting like Josh lit it up because he shot .13 better than JJ. Am I the only one here that thinks just being able to compare a PF FG% to a SG is just way wrong. Or is this what we Hawks fans are now willing to accept as adequate from our bigs so long as they pass the ball and hit the boards?

I think you are reading a different thread than I am.I am reading a thread that states that Joe Johnson did or did not intentionally tank his game and defer to Josh Smith this season so Josh could sink or swim.I am not sure where this thread comparing scoring efficiencies for the two players factoring in their position is listed. I assume is as short as I would think it would be since everyone agrees that Joe was the more efficient scorer this season throughout the season and post-season especially when you factor in position. This post seems like a straw man given this thread's topic.

[Diesel]

Both deserve condemnation for their poor offensive numbers. Joe doesn't get much applause from me considering he had one plus game and even in that one he only scored 29 points on 28 shots and went 1-4 in overtime.Josh deserves recognition for showing up every game passing and rebounding the ball:Game 1 - 18 rebounds, 4 assistsGame 2 - 12 rebounds, 5 assistsGame 4 - 13 rebounds, 5 assistsGame 5 - 16 rebounds, 6 assistsGame 6 - 9 rebounds, 4 assistsEven though Josh was abysmal offensively, this is why he was definitely better than Joe in the playoffs...but, even so, Josh doesn't deserve big kudos when you look at the damage done to our offense through his poor shot selection. It was pretty painful - but better than Joe's poor scoring combined with little else of value.

I think a Josh Negative effects the team's ability to win far more than a Joe Negative. You say Josh doesn't other things defensively... well, they are very small in comparison to his momentum busters that he commit on offense. Moreover, as Josh ages, his athleticism is going to be void. He's another rendition of KMart only he doesn't have the pure defensive skill.

[Joker]

Josh has more negatives due to his offensive BBIQ, consistency, and mentality. But Smith is elite in several categories while Joe is elite at nothing. To say Joe was better v. Boston than Smith is crazy talk. Smith wasn't our best player in that series and neither was Joe but Josh was better than Joe.