Houston will pursue Josh Smith if they fail to get Dwight Howard

[NekiEcko]

Okay Joker,I think you are missing the point by a mile, right now we dont have any power any talks with Josh Smith trade rights because HE IS A EXPIRED CONTRACT, no team in the their right mind would give you a decent package because Josh can a Danny Manning and leave after the season and leading that team with cap space and thats it.Right now, any deal that involved a mid 1st/expired/filier is much better than getting nothing for him. Martin is a good player and you can put Joe as a perm 3 if need to. This is Point of No Return for this.

[Joker]

Josh can help us try to get to the Finals even if it's just for one year. I rather that than Martin and a freakin mid 1st.Martin is a solid player like Jamal. They both are better off the bench.

[GameTime]

I would do a Joe for Kevin Martin and/or Dalembert + picks.

[Joker]

The gap between a Josh Smith and a Kevin Martin is mammoth. One has all around skills. The other is mainly a scorer. You guys are pissed at Smoove for his shots, wait till you see Martin. You will want him gone and pissed you traded Smoove for him. Scola is much better for winning Basketball than another Jamal Crawford type.

I would do a Joe for Kevin Martin and/or Dalembert + picks.

I would too. Joe is a championship player but his contract is really bad.

[GameTime]

The gap between a Josh Smith and a Kevin Martin is mammoth. One has all around skills. The other is mainly a scorer. You guys are pissed at Smoove for his shots, wait till you see Martin. You will want him gone and pissed you traded Smoove for him. Scola is much better for winning Basketball than another Jamal Crawford type.I would too. Joe is a championship player but his contract is really bad.

We won't win a championship with only Kevin Martin or Scola so it doesn't really matter. Unless we can get a superstar, tons of young talent or getting rid of Joe's contract for Josh it should be a no deal.

[Joker]

Danny Ferry is smart. Rick Sund is smart. Thank god.

[AHF]

He is basically a scorer. That's his only true skill.

Agreed. The reason he becomes our first option, however, is that he is a much better scorer than JJ. JJ's career high ts% was basically last year (.557). Martin was hurt last season and had his career low since his rookie year (.556). Those numbers are the same (.557 to .556). Both guys score 20 per game but Joe scores at a .529 ts% for his career while Martin scores at a .595 ts% for his career. The biggest difference is that when Martin has trouble getting his J he gets to the line more than twice as often as JJ.So that doesn't mean that Martin becomes the primary ball handler or starts running the offense, it means you make getting him a shot a higher priority in your offensive scheme than getting JJ or anyone else a shot and defenses should fear Martin shooting more than they fear JJ shooting because JJ and Martin score about the same amount with JJ making up the difference in scoring efficiency by taking more shots.

[Sothron]

I would be happy with Martin/14 or Lowry/14 and some kind of salary filler for Josh. Kevin Martin isn't as bad a defender as people think he is and he's a near elite offensive weapon at two guard. The guy almost pulled off leading the league in both free throws and three pointers made the season before last. Lowry is a real point guard with vision that plays good defense and would be a good starter for us. We'd actually have someone with vision to possibly use Horford in the PNR at that point.

[Jody23]

Isn't Martin's contract expiring after next season?

[Joker]

Agreed. The reason he becomes our first option, however, is that he is a much better scorer than JJ. JJ's career high ts% was basically last year (.557). Martin was hurt last season and had his career low since his rookie year (.556). Those numbers are the same (.557 to .556). Both guys score 20 per game but Joe scores at a .529 ts% for his career while Martin scores at a .595 ts% for his career. The biggest difference is that when Martin has trouble getting his J he gets to the line more than twice as often as JJ.So that doesn't mean that Martin becomes the primary ball handler or starts running the offense, it means you make getting him a shot a higher priority in your offensive scheme than getting JJ or anyone else a shot and defenses should fear Martin shooting more than they fear JJ shooting because JJ and Martin score about the same amount with JJ making up the difference in scoring efficiency by taking more shots.

You can't run an offense through Martin. He is not good enough and limits your team potential. It's a lot better to run your team through Johnson has he is a good playmaker who can score. Martin also gives up too many points and needs a extremely high usage rate to be effective. He is clearly better by win margins off the bench as a 6th man.I don't care about TS when I watch someone play and I can tell they aren't that good. Ex: Maggette, Salmons, Martin, Jamal, SAR.

[AHF]

The gap between a Josh Smith and a Kevin Martin is mammoth. One has all around skills. The other is mainly a scorer. You guys are pissed at Smoove for his shots, wait till you see Martin. You will want him gone and pissed you traded Smoove for him. Scola is much better for winning Basketball than another Jamal Crawford type.I would too. Joe is a championship player but his contract is really bad.

I agree that this deal is not good value for Josh.That said, you are looking at the deal wrong if you want to convince people otherwise. Here is how they are looking at the deal:Premise 1 - This team as currently constituted is a first or second round exit from the playoffs.Premise 2 - If Josh is going to leave anyway, we need to get value.Premise 3 - We should therefore do the deal that sets us up with the most value long-term.Analysis - If we can't land better picks or a young player to build on for Josh, letting Josh walk leaves us with nothing after next season. If we trade Josh for Martin & 14, then we will still get bounced out of the playoffs early just like we have with Josh for the last 4 years. So if we acquire the #14 pick then that leaves us with something better than Josh walking. Therefore, if we are faced with the choice of Josh walking or taking this deal, the deal gives us the most value long-term. I am sure some of the people that hate Josh think so, but the bulk of the posters considering this don't think this is a deal that improves the team for 2012-13. They see it as a better alternative for 2013-14 then just keeping Josh and letting him leave and they don't place high value on the early playoff exits the team provides as currently constituted. Edited June 26, 2012 by AHF

[Admin]

Josh can help us try to get to the Finals even if it's just for one year. I rather that than Martin and a freakin mid 1st.Martin is a solid player like Jamal. They both are better off the bench.

So what, has Josh been trying to do something other than get us to the finals the past 7 years? This team is a LONG way from being a finals team WITH Josh and we have no flexibility under the salary cap constraints to add what's needed to get there either.

[Joker]

I would be happy with Martin/14 or Lowry/14 and some kind of salary filler for Josh. Kevin Martin isn't as bad a defender as people think he is and he's a near elite offensive weapon at two guard. The guy almost pulled off leading the league in both free throws and three pointers made the season before last. Lowry is a real point guard with vision that plays good defense and would be a good starter for us. We'd actually have someone with vision to possibly use Horford in the PNR at that point.

No, he's freaking awful on defense. Clearly one of the worse if not the worst defender in the NBA. Lowry PnR are mainly for himself. He is really Mookie Blaylock 2.0. He wouldn't make anyone better and we are stuck with him. I rather just keep Smith and draft Wroten or Machado than this. I honestly dislike all of Houston players sans Scola for us. He is the only one I like for us.

[Joker]

I agree that this deal is not good value for Josh.That said, you are looking at the deal wrong if you want to convince people otherwise. Here is how they are looking at the deal:Premise 1 - This team as currently constituted is a first or second round exit from the playoffs.Premise 2 - If Josh is going to leave anyway, we need to get value.Premise 3 - We should therefore do the deal that sets us up with the most value long-term.Analysis - If we can't land better picks or a young player to build on for Josh, letting Josh walk leaves us with nothing after next season. If we trade Josh for Martin & 14, then we will still get bounced out of the playoffs early just like we have with Josh for the last 4 years. So if we acquire the #14 pick then that leaves us with something better than Josh walking. Therefore, if we are faced with the choice of Josh walking or taking this deal, the deal gives us the most value long-term. I am sure some of the people that hate Josh think so, but the bulk of the posters considering this don't think this is a deal that improves the team for 2012-13. They see it as a better alternative for 2013-14 then just keeping Josh and letting him leave.

You don't want to lock your position either for good. The worse thing Atlanta can be is not Atlanta. It's Milwaukee. Where you are fighting for the playoffs and not bad enough to be high lotto team.

So what, has Josh been trying to do something other than get us to the finals the past 7 years? This team is a LONG way from being a finals team WITH Josh and we have no flexibility under the salary cap constraints to add what's needed to get there either.

With Josh, we are Atlanta. With this trade, we are Milwaukee.

[AHF]

You don't want to lock your position either for good. The worse thing Atlanta can be is not Atlanta. It's Milwaukee. Where you are fighting for the playoffs and not bad enough to be high lotto team.

How does keeping Josh and having him walk after next year do anything other than ensure your worst nightmare will come to fruition? Isn't the only way to avoid that to resign Josh or trade him for value?

[Joker]

Come up with a better deal that gets us closer to winning. Till then pass.

[Sothron]

No, he's freaking awful on defense. Clearly one of the worse if not the worst defender in the NBA. Lowry PnR are mainly for himself. He is really Mookie Blaylock 2.0. He wouldn't make anyone better and we are stuck with him. I rather just keep Smith and draft Wroten or Machado than this. I honestly dislike all of Houston players sans Scola for us. He is the only one I like for us.

We disagree on that. I actually like several of Houston players and the one I like the least is actually Scola. He has really bottomed out the last two years. Lowry would be the best PG we've had since Mookie and I'd kill if he gave us what Mookie did. Martin is NOT that bad a defender as you want to put him as. Martin is also a consistent and highly efficient offensive player because unlike Joe Martin WILL get to the free throw line and he DOES make free throws unlike Josh. Plus Martin is on an expiring so if we don't like him then we aren't stuck with.I think your biggest problem with all of this is that you think the Hawks can get a king's ransom for Josh. We can't. He's on an expiring contract and he's a bit of a head case. Teams aren't going to fork over top five picks for that.

[Joker]

How does keeping Josh and having him walk after next year do anything other than ensure your worst nightmare will come to fruition? Isn't the only way to avoid that to resign Josh or trade him for value?

We can amnesty Joe and have a lot of cap. Win/Win or we can get the 8th seed and continue the treadmill. Too many options. Trading him for garbage isn't one of them.

[Admin]

With Josh, we are Atlanta. With this trade, we are Milwaukee.

Fun game. Without Josh and without a trade, we are Charlotte.

[NekiEcko]

You don't want to lock your position either for good. The worse thing Atlanta can be is not Atlanta. It's Milwaukee. Where you are fighting for the playoffs and not bad enough to be high lotto team.With Josh, we are Atlanta. With this trade, we are Milwaukee.

and how is the Hawks is like Bucks, I will like to know? Because I dont think many other team is going to do a trade like that, and we can get Marvin contract outta here if we lucky ofcourse.